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A magic Space Station that flies too...



 
 
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  #12  
Old October 22nd 04, 07:15 AM
Alain Fournier
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Scott Hedrick wrote:

"Name Withheld" wrote in message
...

You are basing your opinion, as far as I can tell, on what you "think".


I can't imagine a better thing for any person to base their opinions on.



There are people who seriously think the world is flat.


No, its not really flat, there are mountains and all kinds
of bumps and holes.

Alain Fournier

  #13  
Old October 22nd 04, 07:20 AM
AA Institute
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(Alex Terrell) wrote in message . com...
(AA Institute) wrote in message . com...
Imagine if this could be done in the next 30 years, we'd have not only
established a foothold at a single location like the Moon or Mars...
but the whole solar system could become within reach!

http://uk.geocities.com/aa_spaceagen...arth-ring.html

And the stars too...

Kill all birds with just one stone... or one asteroid for that matter!
Other than simply the long timescales necessary for such a project, I
don't see any reason why we can't or should not do this...

Abdul Ahad


This is a bit ambitious for a first mission.

Highly ambitious.

You mention a delta V change of 1.9 + km/s, for an object of about 64
billion tons. This is even before bringing it down to 40,000km
altitude.


Consider that 95% of the initial mass of the asteroid has been lost
through its hollowing out process using robotic vehicles as I describe
in my article. You are left with a much lighter 'shell' which you will
need to bring across to Earth orbit.


assume you use electric propulsion, with an exhaust velocity of
20km/s, you still need about 6.4 billion tons of fuel.

As you say, this is "non-trivial".


Bringing the asteroid shell to Earth in *one go*, using my
*simplistic* "3 impulse strategy" I describe for illustration, it will
be very very steep, I totally agree. However, I did say there are over
20,000 near Earth asteroids from which a good candidate choice can be
made. If the orbital geometry is right, you can take the slow route
and use rocket impulse only on parts of the body's heliocentric orbit
that works to alter its course, very gradually, incrementally over
several orbits. There are also many other astrodynamics options used
with spacecraft nowadays like close fly-by's of planets like Venus or
Mars... where atmospheric aero-braking could be used. There is also
that other option of nuclear blasting, although this will need to be
delicately handled so as to avoid cracking the hollowed out shell.

Where there is a *will*, there is always a *way*, IMHO.


Your best bet is to find a 3,000 ton Near Earth Rock (~15m diameter),
and bring this in a High Earth Orbit (400,000km). This could be done
with a probe weighing 50 tons (= LEO launch mass of about 150 tons),
using the rock material as a propellant.

Then process the asteroid, in High Earth Orbit, to create larger
missions. Eventually, you'll get up to billion ton rocks.

Critical to this is the ability to turn NEOs into solar power
generators.


So you're saying bring in a small number of asteroids, one at a time,
then somehow use them as rocket fuel to build up toward a bigger
object? I don't understand this idea, please explain.

Abdul Ahad
  #14  
Old October 22nd 04, 07:35 AM
Jim Kingdon
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There are people who seriously think the world is flat.

No, its not really flat, there are mountains and all kinds
of bumps and holes.


Are you guys going to make me bring up the canonical paper on
flatness?

http://www.improb.com/airchives/pape...i3/kansas.html
  #15  
Old October 22nd 04, 01:16 PM
Christopher M. Jones
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Name Withheld wrote:
You are basing your opinion, as far as I can tell, on what you "think".


I can't imagine a better thing for any person to base their opinions on.


How about "fact"?
  #16  
Old October 22nd 04, 04:52 PM
Alain Fournier
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Jim Kingdon wrote:

There are people who seriously think the world is flat.


No, its not really flat, there are mountains and all kinds
of bumps and holes.



Are you guys going to make me bring up the canonical paper on
flatness?

http://www.improb.com/airchives/pape...i3/kansas.html


Do you have proof that Kansas really exists?

Alain Fournier

  #18  
Old October 24th 04, 03:21 AM
Joann Evans
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Micky wrote:

I disagree. If you are going to be travelling on a one way trip. And totally
independant posibly not returning to earth in hundreds of years I think you
do.....


More mass means more energy to get to useful speeds, or lower speeds,
with more cosmic ray exposure. (at least on the outside of this thing).

Does it really have to have interior radiation levels lower than is
typical at sea level on Earth, where humans have survived for 'hundreds'
of years quite well?

You will not, after all, be passing near espically nasty sources like
flare stars or black holes...

--

You know what to remove, to reply....
  #19  
Old October 24th 04, 04:47 AM
G EddieA95
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Does it really have to have interior radiation levels lower than is
typical at sea level on Earth, where humans have survived for 'hundreds'
of years quite well?


Actually, human communities have lived for "centuries" at approx. 5000m in the
Andes and Himalayas, where cosmic rems are even higher. So that may be an
acceptable baseline for deep-space travel.
 




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