Questions about "The High Frontier"

Troy wrote:
I don't think it's plausible, either, but it's (fairly) easy to handle
large masses in space. The point is to make big hollow pressure
vessels on a large scale. Perhaps just unpeeling the asteroid into a
larger habitat using solar mirrors is a lot easier. A semi-molten
asteroid with differing pockets of viscosity all the way through is
just gonna pop.



You are going to have to stir it in a molten state to make it
homogeneous; could that be done via electromagnetic fields in the case
of a nickel-iron asteroid?

Pat

Eivind Kjorstad wrote:
High-rpm-low-radius habs have a different problem though, the apparent
gravity inside them has a sharp gradient, and coriolis would be a bitch.

Wouldn't it be easier to hang the hotel on a tether, with a counter-mass
on the other end, and spin it ? (the counter-mass can be a second hotel
if desired)

That way you can have as small a structure as you like, with very low
rpm, and still whatever gravity is needed to maintain health.



Difficult to dock with though. You could link up to the center of the
tether and slid down to the end you wanted, but the change in mass would
mean that the center of rotation would change, and the increase in
overall mass slow its rate of rotation down as the docking ship gets
spun up.

Pat

Matthias Warkus wrote:

For starters, the reason they are going to exist isn't to give people
a really fun place to live, but make a buck.

Think oil platform rather than aircraft carrier.

I still think that the Antarctic science stations are a fairly close
analogy, due to the fact that you have very long periods with no contact
with the outside world other than via radio or telecommunications, and
life outside the station can be downright deadly in if something goes wrong.

Pat

Matthias Warkus wrote:

People have held out in zero-g space stations for more than one year
without serious health problems AFAIK.

But the downside was it took hours of exercise per day to accomplish
that, as well as wearing a special suit that was uncomfortable and
restricted mobility by using elastic straps to generate forces the
muscles had to fight against.
This cut into both the time the crew had to perform useful work, and
made their stay on the station (Mir in this case) more unpleasant.

Pat

Matthias Warkus wrote:

I'd think it cheaper to let people live in zero-g and put two hours of
mandatory daily exercise into their contracts.

That's two hours less useful work they can do per day (unless you have
them run on a treadmill to generate electricity, I imagine), and they
are going to use up a lot of energy doing the exercise, meaning they
will tire faster and need more food and water.

Pat

Pat Flannery schrieb:


Matthias Warkus wrote:

I'd think it cheaper to let people live in zero-g and put two hours of
mandatory daily exercise into their contracts.

That's two hours less useful work they can do per day (unless you have
them run on a treadmill to generate electricity, I imagine), and they
are going to use up a lot of energy doing the exercise, meaning they
will tire faster and need more food and water.

Of course. But I think it's still cheaper than building a rotating
habitat unless there are *LOTS* of workers.

mawa
--
http://www.prellblog.de

In rec.arts.sf.science Pat Flannery wrote:
Around a year back, he was going on about some democratic revolution
happening in China during the Olympics IIRC.
This is a interesting fixation on one sports event or country.

Not only is it an odd fixation, it's also totally ludicrous.

Those people old enough to remember life before the Communists came to
power will rightly remember that it was a whole lot worse. The Japanese
were doing all kinds of terrible things and the Nationalists weren't
really very nice people either. Those people not old enough to remember
those times will still remember a nearly constant and extremely fast rise
in the standard of living and general conditions in the country. There are
probably some people with outspoken political beliefs who are quite
unhappy but for the most part the people there have no *reason* to want a
revolution, and every reason to avoid one. And while I'm as much a fan of
liberty and democracy as the next guy, I'd have a hard time saying that
they're wrong.

--
Michael Ash
Rogue Amoeba Software

Michael Ash schrieb:
In rec.arts.sf.science Pat Flannery wrote:
Around a year back, he was going on about some democratic revolution
happening in China during the Olympics IIRC.
This is a interesting fixation on one sports event or country.

Not only is it an odd fixation, it's also totally ludicrous.

Those people old enough to remember life before the Communists came to
power will rightly remember that it was a whole lot worse. The Japanese
were doing all kinds of terrible things and the Nationalists weren't
really very nice people either. Those people not old enough to remember
those times will still remember a nearly constant and extremely fast rise
in the standard of living and general conditions in the country. There are
probably some people with outspoken political beliefs who are quite
unhappy but for the most part the people there have no *reason* to want a
revolution, and every reason to avoid one. And while I'm as much a fan of
liberty and democracy as the next guy, I'd have a hard time saying that
they're wrong.

And on top of that, China is increasingly implementing rule of law in
many areas. Apparently, in China you can these days *sue* a state-owned
company that wants to take your land and win. You could argue that at
present, there is more personal liberty in China than there ever was. It
seems they are also putting in place municipal elections and such?

It's a bit like the Prussian reforms, giving people more rights and
improving life for large segments of the population to *avoid* having to
install democracy on a national scale.

mawa
--
http://www.prellblog.de

"Matthias Warkus" wrote in message
...
Pat Flannery schrieb:


Matthias Warkus wrote:

I'd think it cheaper to let people live in zero-g and put two hours of
mandatory daily exercise into their contracts.

That's two hours less useful work they can do per day (unless you have
them run on a treadmill to generate electricity, I imagine), and they are
going to use up a lot of energy doing the exercise, meaning they will
tire faster and need more food and water.

Of course. But I think it's still cheaper than building a rotating habitat
unless there are *LOTS* of workers.


If we're building SPS, then we will have LOTS of workers and the ability to
build substational stations.


mawa
--
http://www.prellblog.de



--
Greg Moore
SQL Server DBA Consulting Remote and Onsite available!
Email: sql (at) greenms.com http://www.greenms.com/sqlserver.html

In rec.arts.sf.science Matthias Warkus wrote:
And on top of that, China is increasingly implementing rule of law in
many areas. Apparently, in China you can these days *sue* a state-owned
company that wants to take your land and win. You could argue that at
present, there is more personal liberty in China than there ever was. It
seems they are also putting in place municipal elections and such?

I never even thought of arguing that there's more personal liberty in
China than there ever was because it seems so *obvious*. It wasn't exactly
a bastion of freedom and democracy before the Reds Took Over, after all.

Of course that doesn't mean it couldn't be one now, look at what happened
in Taiwan and South Korea for example, but all in all the place is a lot
better off than it was.

It's a bit like the Prussian reforms, giving people more rights and
improving life for large segments of the population to *avoid* having to
install democracy on a national scale.

I think that's the idea, anyway. I believe the Party realizes that making
people happy works better than making them afraid in the long term.
Ultimately it seems that people won't agitate for democracy or freedom
unless there is some *other* push, like poverty or extreme abuses of
power. Has there been a democratic revolution that wasn't pushed by
something else? Even the US revolution was prompted by taxes and dislike
of various aspects of British rule, with the whole freedom and democracy
thing being almost tacked on as a rider by people who saw the revolution
as an opportunity to make something really great.

--
Michael Ash
Rogue Amoeba Software