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Copernicus was wrong -- bible says so -- "religious right" biblethumpers believe it -- this is not a joke
An emergent scandal over a Texas Republican Party politician's
distribution of a memo citing a "fixed Earth" website alleging the Earth to be non-rotating and at the center of the universe has raised the question; where do such eccentric views as Rep. Chisum's, that the Copernican model of the Solar System is wrong and derives from a Jewish Kabbalistic Conspiracy, come from ? Until recently, it's been generally assumed that the debate over heliocentric vs. geocentric models of the universe, that raged up until the advent of Copernicus, had been well resolved. Lately though, an American movement has sought to restore the Earth to a central position in the grand cosmological scheme... Since the existence of the "Flat Earth Society" became a widely traveled joke, it has become hard to determine if card-carrying flat-earthers really exist any more; many join the society for amusement. But, there are real geocentrists who dream of spheres within spheres and orreries, speculate that Copernicus killed Tycho Brahe and write dense, arcane mathematical proofs placing the Earth at the center of it all. Variants of such views apparently can be found in the Texas State legislature and, in 1999, Tom Willis --head of the Mid-Atlantic Creation Research Association-- was " intrumental in revising the Kansas elementary school curriculum to remove references to evolution, earth history, and science methodology". Willis was also a "geocentrist" and wrote, in 2000, a bold manifesto for both Young- Earth Creationism and Geocentrism: "...all experiments to demonstrate that the earth moves at all have failed. All seem to indicate the earth does not move at all. There is much evidence that the earth is young and cannot possibly be millions, much less billions of years old but we will not treat that herein.... The Bible does not say that the earth is at the center of the universe. But, anyone looking up can see that the sun, planets and stars are moving. Galileo argued that this motion was relative, that really the earth was spinning and it only looks like these other objects move. But, both the observations and the Bible indicate quite strongly that the earth does not move." - Tom Willis Tom Willis wasn't the only geocentrist toiling away to reverse scientific theories that had been accepted for centuries. Indeed, geocentrists could be found in orbit, frolicking and also fighting with Copernicans, around a key ideological and theological gravitational center of the Christian right : the Chalcedon Foundation. http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/#48148 |
#2
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Copernicus was wrong -- bible says so -- "religious right" biblethumpers believe it -- this is not a joke
Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names wrote:
where do such eccentric views as Rep. Chisum's, that the Copernican model of the Solar System is wrong and derives from a Jewish Kabbalistic Conspiracy, come from ? Maybe he isn't a right-wing fundamentalist Christian Republican. He could be black, and a Rastafarian. Then these unfortunate views would simply be tenets of his faith, and we should leave him alone. He had better have such an excuse. Unless, of course, you're making all this up, as a previous poster seems to believe for some reason. John Savard |
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Copernicus was wrong -- bible says so -- "religious right" biblethumpers believe it -- this is not a joke
On Feb 16, 10:01 pm, "Quadibloc" wrote:
Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names wrote: where do such eccentric views as Rep. Chisum's, that the Copernican model of the Solar System is wrong and derives from a Jewish Kabbalistic Conspiracy, come from ? Maybe he isn't a right-wing fundamentalist Christian Republican. He could be black, and a Rastafarian. Then these unfortunate views would simply be tenets of his faith, and we should leave him alone. He had better have such an excuse. Unless, of course, you're making all this up, as a previous poster seems to believe for some reason. John Savard Unfortunately, he's NOT making this up. And the guy in question dang shore ain't a Rastaman, either. ;-) A Texas lawmaker _is_ apparently pushing this. What's next? I imagine that will be demands that geocentrism must be taught alongside heliocentrism in public schools in order to be FAIR? ;-) Unk Rod |
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Copernicus was wrong -- bible says so -- "religious right" biblethumpers believe it -- this is not a joke
RMOLLISE wrote:
A Texas lawmaker _is_ apparently pushing this. What's next? I imagine that will be demands that geocentrism must be taught alongside heliocentrism in public schools in order to be FAIR? ;-) I will oppose these demands. If there *were* a significant number of geocentric religious believers to be concerned about - which I doubt will ever occur - I would accept teaching Copernicanism in a "culturally sensitive" fashion, as is my position with evolution. John Savard |
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Copernicus was wrong -- bible says so -- "religious right" biblethumpers believe it -- this is not a joke
On Feb 17, 10:42 am, "Quadibloc" wrote:
RMOLLISE wrote: A Texas lawmaker _is_ apparently pushing this. What's next? I imagine that will be demands that geocentrism must be taught alongside heliocentrism in public schools in order to be FAIR? ;-) I will oppose these demands. If there *were* a significant number of geocentric religious believers to be concerned about - which I doubt will ever occur - I would accept teaching Copernicanism in a "culturally sensitive" fashion, as is my position with evolution. John Savard "Culturally sensitive" in what way? How? And don't discount this. How many people thought the Scopes trial had settled the evolution debate 80 years ago? Unk Rod |
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Copernicus was wrong -- bible says so -- "religious right" biblethumpers believe it -- this is not a joke
RMOLLISE wrote:
Unfortunately, he's NOT making this up. And the guy in question dang shore ain't a Rastaman, either. ;-) A Texas lawmaker _is_ apparently pushing this. What's next? I imagine that will be demands that geocentrism must be taught alongside heliocentrism in public schools in order to be FAIR? ;-) Google being my friend, I found further detail about this controversy: http://blogs.chron.com/sciguy/archiv..._chisum_h.html It turns out that Representative Warren Chisum does not believe in evolution, all right. And, being a Young Earth Creationist, he also denies the Big Bang. And so, in advancing his argument against the Big Bang, he made reference to a web site on which evidence appeared which he considered credible that the idea of a Big Bang 15 billion years ago derives not from science, but rather from the religious notions of the ancient Pharisees. As it happened, somewhere else *on that web site*, to which Representative Chisum made reference - which, of course, is not proof he read the *entire* web site - are arguments against the Copernican theory. This may speak volumes about the degree of caution Warren Chisum exercises when referring to sources that happen to support his beliefs. But it says nothing about his personal beliefs regarding the heliocentric theory, and it is entirely possible that he is perfectly willing to reconcile it with his Scriptural beliefs. John Savard |
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Copernicus was wrong -- bible says so -- "religious right" biblethumpers believe it -- this is not a joke
RMOLLISE wrote:
Unfortunately, he's NOT making this up. And the guy in question dang shore ain't a Rastaman, either. ;-) Well, you can understand why I thought he might have been smoking something! And perhaps the name of Shirley Chisholm was lurking in the back of my thoughts somewhere as well as I groped for possibilities to explain something so incongrouous. John Savard |
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Copernicus was wrong -- bible says so -- "religious right" biblethumpers believe it -- this is not a joke
RMOLLISE wrote:
"Culturally sensitive" in what way? How? And don't discount this. How many people thought the Scopes trial had settled the evolution debate 80 years ago? As I note in another reply to your post, looking deeper into this, it turns out that Representative Warren Chisum has not made any public criticism of the heliocentric theory. As a Young Earth Creationist, he denies the Big Bang, and he happened to cite something he saw on a web site that *elsewhere*, in a portion he likely had not read, took a position against Copernicus. I suspect the current controversy will wind up giving birth to a new "urban legend". In the case of evolution, what I mean by culturally sensitive is this: Textbooks will teach evolution, not creation or "intelligent design". But while they will present the facts and arguments in favor of evolution, and they will not present any disclaimers which imply a lack of credibility to evolution, or credibility for creationism, and they will not "teach the controversy" when there is no real controversy... they _will_ disclaim teaching any conclusions about the actual origin of life. We are teaching you the allegations of certain scientists about the origin of life. You will be examined on your knowledge of these allegations. We will not say how likely we think these allegations are to be true. We will not say why we do not take the time to teach you about other ideas concerning the origin of life. You will be left free to draw your own conclusions in this matter. While we may believe these allegations to be very credible, and therfore worthy of inclusion in the curriculum, we respect your freedom to believe that we are mistaken, and so we shall word all our examinations so that you can get a perfect score without uttering the slightest abjuration or contradiction of the least verse of Genesis. Those of you who are Creationists, therefore, cannot complain that we are persecuting you, and pressuring you to deny your faith. The rest of the students can get a big laugh at the hypocrisy of the adult world, and the level of stupidity it sometimes has to show respect to. The Creationists should get what the First Amendment demands they are owed... but nothing more. I would even say they deserve it. John Savard |
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Copernicus was wrong -- bible says so -- "religious right" biblethumpers believe it -- this is not a joke
Evolution is just a theory as is intelligent design. Both should be taught
in schools. How many of you (over 45 folks) had to worry about kids bringing guns to school when you were growing-up? Why do we have this problem today? Did you ever ponder that question? The answer is simple, however, it will most likely offend the staunch atheists in this group. It is due to the lack of spirituality of today's youth. Kids today worship the MTV Rapper as God rather than our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Many of today's youth have no moral values. Teaching them that they are the descendants of Monkeys only reinforces their already warped view of the world, lack of spirituality, self-centeredness, and lack of respect for other folks. I don't have any children, but most of my friends and family send their children to Christian Schools because they teach creationism rather than evolution and impart moral values. The lack of spirituality that is currently rampant in this country was predicted by the Bible. Open your bible and more importantly, "open your mind to the concept of faith" and you will be enlightened. Regards, -mij "Someone babbled the following sarcastic attack on the religious members of this newsgroup:" :-( Those of you who are Creationists, therefore, cannot complain that we are persecuting you, and pressuring you to deny your faith. The rest of the students can get a big laugh at the hypocrisy of the adult world, and the level of stupidity it sometimes has to show respect to. The Creationists should get what the First Amendment demands they are owed... but nothing more. I would even say they deserve it. "Here is some information from a person with a grasp of reality and an open-mind" We shall begin with the philosophical aspects of A Brief History of Time, which really explains why it has sold so many copies. Stephen Hawking has stated, "It is difficult to discuss the beginning of the universe without mentioning the concept of God. My work on the origin of the universe is on the borderline between science and religion, but I try to stay on the scientific side of the border. It is quite possible that God acts in ways that cannot be described by scientific laws, but in that case, one would just have to go by personal belief." When asked whether he believed that science and Christianity were competing world views, Hawking replied, "...then Newton would not have discovered the law of gravity." He knew that Newton had strong religious convictions. |
#10
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Copernicus was wrong -- bible says so -- "religious right" biblethumpers believe it -- this is not a joke
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 09:47:04 -0800, "Mij Adyaw"
wrote: Evolution is just a theory as is intelligent design. Both should be taught in schools... ID is not a scientific theory. It has no place in any science class. remaining OT BS snipped _________________________________________________ Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com |
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