A Space & astronomy forum. SpaceBanter.com

Go Back   Home » SpaceBanter.com forum » Astronomy and Astrophysics » Amateur Astronomy
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Wind and Solar power now cheaper than Gas and Coal.



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old December 30th 15, 04:57 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Uncarollo2
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 803
Default Wind and Solar power now cheaper than Gas and Coal.


Coal power is at $108 per megawatt-hours, Gas is at $65, Solar is at $64 and Wind is cheapest at $55. All 4 are unsubsidized costs.

Source: Lazard Levelized Cost of Energy Analysis
https://www.lazard.com/media/2390/la...nalysis-90.pdf
  #2  
Old December 30th 15, 06:05 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,007
Default Wind and Solar power now cheaper than Gas and Coal.

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 19:57:10 -0800 (PST), Uncarollo2
wrote:

Coal power is at $108 per megawatt-hours, Gas is at $65, Solar is at $64 and Wind is cheapest at $55. All 4 are unsubsidized costs.


It's a great time to install supplemental solar, especially if you can
sell power back to the grid. These systems require little or no
investment in batteries (which are the most expensive component of a
PV system), and can provide 25% or more of your household electricity.
  #3  
Old December 30th 15, 04:33 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,472
Default Wind and Solar power now cheaper than Gas and Coal.

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 12:05:35 AM UTC-5, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 19:57:10 -0800 (PST), Uncarollo2
wrote:

Coal power is at $108 per megawatt-hours, Gas is at $65, Solar is at $64 and Wind is cheapest at $55. All 4 are unsubsidized costs.


It's a great time to install supplemental solar, especially if you can
sell power back to the grid. These systems require little or no
investment in batteries (which are the most expensive component of a
PV system), and can provide 25% or more of your household electricity.


Ah yes, the wonders of market distortions.
  #5  
Old December 30th 15, 05:17 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Mike Collins[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,824
Default Wind and Solar power now cheaper than Gas and Coal.

wrote:
On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 12:05:35 AM UTC-5, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 19:57:10 -0800 (PST), Uncarollo2
wrote:

Coal power is at $108 per megawatt-hours, Gas is at $65, Solar is at
$64 and Wind is cheapest at $55. All 4 are unsubsidized costs.


It's a great time to install supplemental solar, especially if you can
sell power back to the grid. These systems require little or no
investment in batteries (which are the most expensive component of a
PV system), and can provide 25% or more of your household electricity.


Ah yes, the wonders of market distortions.


Please explain the nature of these distortions. You seem to believe a free
market is all.
I don't believe there has ever been such a thing as a free market.


  #6  
Old December 30th 15, 05:25 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,007
Default Wind and Solar power now cheaper than Gas and Coal.

On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 09:05:04 -0700, Chris L Peterson
wrote:

What distortion is that? It's simple economics. As noted by Sam...


Sorry. Roland.
  #7  
Old December 30th 15, 06:08 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Uncarollo2
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 803
Default Wind and Solar power now cheaper than Gas and Coal.

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 9:33:09 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 12:05:35 AM UTC-5, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 19:57:10 -0800 (PST), Uncarollo2
wrote:

Coal power is at $108 per megawatt-hours, Gas is at $65, Solar is at $64 and Wind is cheapest at $55. All 4 are unsubsidized costs.


It's a great time to install supplemental solar, especially if you can
sell power back to the grid. These systems require little or no
investment in batteries (which are the most expensive component of a
PV system), and can provide 25% or more of your household electricity.


Ah yes, the wonders of market distortions.


Is it willful intentional ignorance that the vast majority of Americans are unaware of the billions and billions in annual subsidies the fossil fuel industry has received for decades and decades?

The US Treasury is aware of it and even published a publicly available report on the annual value of just the tax code subsidies in 2014. Here is a quote from the first page of the US Treasury report.

"There are a number of tax preferences available in the United States to producers of fossil fuels. The preferences below are all permanent provisions in the tax code. In total, the United States government has identified eleven Federal fossil fuel production tax provisions, combined, these provisions total USD 4.7 billion in annual revenue cost."

And of course since the US Treasury report is just looking at the tax code it ignores the trillions of US military expenditure over the past several decades that has been spent to protect Middle East oil and other overseas oil supplies since the 1940's.

To quote Foreign Policy magazine, "If Americans understood just how many trillions their military was really spending on protecting oil, they wouldn't stand for it."

  #8  
Old December 30th 15, 06:11 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Uncarollo2
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 803
Default Wind and Solar power now cheaper than Gas and Coal.

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 9:33:09 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 12:05:35 AM UTC-5, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 19:57:10 -0800 (PST), Uncarollo2
wrote:

Coal power is at $108 per megawatt-hours, Gas is at $65, Solar is at $64 and Wind is cheapest at $55. All 4 are unsubsidized costs.


It's a great time to install supplemental solar, especially if you can
sell power back to the grid. These systems require little or no
investment in batteries (which are the most expensive component of a
PV system), and can provide 25% or more of your household electricity.


Ah yes, the wonders of market distortions.


The "no subsidies at all" is tantalizingly simple, but I don't think it's very thoroughly considered.

The government is charged with providing for our general welfare, and is given broad power to do so. In this century, electricity is most certainly a basic part of our welfare, and in fact the government did spend a huge amount of money spreading electricity to rural areas in the early/mid 20th century. I think there is no dispute that the government is expected to ensure our access to electricity as often as is reasonable.

Knowing that completely free markets are subject to unexpected collapse, that would put the government in a very strong position to socialize energy entirely, in the interest of the public's general welfare. Subsidize or socialize?

The Enron fiasco in the 90s and countless other small examples only prove that energy companies are willing to impose unnecessary hardship on people to gain profit, without any regard for their welfare. People die because of power outages and such abuse would not long be tolerated by the public.

By eliminating subsidies in such an important aspect of daily life and our general welfare, you force the government to choose between allowing corporate abuse or socializing the industry. Which do you think would end up happening?
  #9  
Old December 30th 15, 06:14 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Uncarollo2
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 803
Default Wind and Solar power now cheaper than Gas and Coal.

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 9:33:09 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 12:05:35 AM UTC-5, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 19:57:10 -0800 (PST), Uncarollo2
wrote:

Coal power is at $108 per megawatt-hours, Gas is at $65, Solar is at $64 and Wind is cheapest at $55. All 4 are unsubsidized costs.


It's a great time to install supplemental solar, especially if you can
sell power back to the grid. These systems require little or no
investment in batteries (which are the most expensive component of a
PV system), and can provide 25% or more of your household electricity.


Ah yes, the wonders of market distortions.


I'm pretty sure you want the things that make normal daily life possible guaranteed to some extent, whether through subsidy or direct government action.

You may remember the blackouts in CA when Enron basically shut down a bunch of the grid in order to boost their rate. That's what "Free market" means to big energy producers.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Running on wind - nature's solar power used for commuting AM Amateur Astronomy 56 July 7th 14 05:45 PM
Running on wind - nature's solar power used for commuting [email protected] Amateur Astronomy 0 June 28th 14 01:54 PM
Why nuclear power is better = solar power stinks Rich[_1_] Amateur Astronomy 29 November 18th 08 05:55 AM
Cheaper alternative to a solar H-alpha filter? Adrian Jannetta UK Astronomy 6 September 19th 03 09:33 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 SpaceBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.