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Why Colonize Space?



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 21st 09, 02:03 AM posted to alt.philosophy,rec.arts.sf.written,sci.space.history,sci.physics,sci.econ
Rod Speed
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Posts: 387
Default Why Colonize Space?

Immortalista wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Steven L. wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Immortalista wrote


Today I was reading some opinions of people who believe
that there is no reason for humans to leave earth.


What they actually did was **** on the claims
about colonisation of space from a great height.


Are all arguments for moving into space and onto
other bodies in space really that weak and irrelevant?


Yep.


In spades with the stupid claim that we cant survive on just one planet.


The "When Worlds Collide" scenario isn't impossible.


So unlikely that it isnt worth spending that immense amount of money on.


What if it becomes likely that we can make some
products cheaper in space or on another planet,


Then we make them in space if that turns out of be economically viable given the total cost.

do we then decide for colonization?


Unlikely. Much more likely to be better to automate it instead.

What if colinization can pay for itself and turn a profit?


None, zero, nada, ziltch.

Doesn't your philosophy demand that we follow profits like slaves to a master?


Nope. I have never been in favor of little kids in coal mines, even tho they
are a lot smaller than adults and so the access tunnels could be smaller etc.

Or are you just that earth-centric to the point that even
if technology made it reasonable to move out in space,
you would rather humans just stay here on earth?


I dont care what they do. I dont plan to pay the immense cost
of colonising the moon or mars, there are MUCH better things
to spend that sort of money on, like nukes for example.

And given the mathematical expectation--once that scenario
takes place, Earth is gone--it would be worth hedging that bet.


Nope, insane to spend that sort of money on something that unlikely.


And **** all would be stupid enough to want to be
colonists to avoid such an unlikely possibility anyway.



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  #12  
Old July 21st 09, 02:15 AM posted to alt.philosophy,rec.arts.sf.written,sci.space.history,sci.physics,sci.econ
[email protected]
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Default Why Colonize Space?

In sci.physics Immortalista wrote:

What if it becomes likely that we can make some products cheaper in
space or on another planet, do we then decide for colonization? What
if colinization can pay for itself and turn a profit?


Then the same thing will happen as happened when it became apparent that
there was profit to be had in the New World.

Doesn't your
philosophy demand that we follow profits like slaves to a master?


Philosophy doesn't, but the company accountant does.

--
Jim Pennino

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  #13  
Old July 21st 09, 02:35 AM posted to alt.philosophy,rec.arts.sf.written,sci.space.history,sci.physics,sci.econ
Dimensional Traveler
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Default Why Colonize Space?

Rod Speed wrote:
wrote
Immortalista wrote


Today I was reading some opinions of people who believe that there
is no reason for humans to leave earth. Are all arguments for moving
into space and onto other bodies in space really that weak and irrelevant?


There's lots of theoretical, e.g. asteroid devastates the Earth,
military, e.g. weapons platforms, emotional, e.g. we climbed the
mountain, political, e.g. our flag is there, reasons for humans in
space, there is just no economic reason for humans in space.


And much better things to spend that sort of money on.

Strange then, isn't it, that a lot of self-made wealthy people are
spending lots of money on starting private manned space flight?

The military will definitely have humans in space.


Bet they wont, because we wont be stupid enough to pay for that.

The Chinese already _are_. If the choice is live under Chinese rule
later when they control the high ground or spend money now on something
that from past experience we know will have all kinds of spin-off
benefits, I'll get my checkbook out.

As for anything else, it will depend on what value the nation or
nations that put people in space put on non-economic reasons.


The US put a huge value on the political value of beating the USSR to the Moon.


And now the world has moved on, just like it always does, and the USSR is completely irrelevant, long gone.

Only twenty years and of course its demise secured peace in our time.

--
Things I learned from MythBusters #57: Never leave a loaded gun in an
exploding room.
  #14  
Old July 21st 09, 02:40 AM posted to alt.philosophy,rec.arts.sf.written,sci.space.history,sci.physics,sci.econ
Rod Speed
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Posts: 387
Default Why Colonize Space?

Dimensional Traveler wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
Immortalista wrote


Today I was reading some opinions of people who believe that there
is no reason for humans to leave earth. Are all arguments for moving into space and onto other bodies in space
really that weak and irrelevant?


There's lots of theoretical, e.g. asteroid devastates the Earth,
military, e.g. weapons platforms, emotional, e.g. we climbed the
mountain, political, e.g. our flag is there, reasons for humans in
space, there is just no economic reason for humans in space.


And much better things to spend that sort of money on.


Strange then, isn't it, that a lot of self-made wealthy people are
spending lots of money on starting private manned space flight?


Thats a bare faced lie. Its nothing even remotely resembling anything like a lot.

And thats got absolutely nothing to do with COLONISING 'space' anyway.

The military will definitely have humans in space.


Bet they wont, because we wont be stupid enough to pay for that.


The Chinese already _are_.


Not colonising they aint.

If the choice is live under Chinese rule later when they control the high ground


How odd that the russians never did manage to do that.

or spend money now on something that from past experience we know will have all kinds of spin-off benefits, I'll get
my checkbook out.


You're always welcome to do whatever you like.

As for anything else, it will depend on what value the nation or
nations that put people in space put on non-economic reasons.


The US put a huge value on the political value of beating the USSR to the Moon.


And now the world has moved on, just like it always does, and the USSR is completely irrelevant, long gone.


Only twenty years and of course its demise secured peace in our time.


No one said a word about peace in our time, fool.


  #15  
Old July 21st 09, 02:51 AM posted to alt.philosophy,rec.arts.sf.written,sci.space.history,sci.physics,sci.econ
G. L. Bradford
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Default Why Colonize Space?


"Immortalista" wrote in message
...
Today I was reading some opinions of people who believe that there is
no reason for humans to leave earth. Are all arguments for moving into
space and onto other bodies in space really that weak and irrelevant?


=====================

Weak and irrelevant only to those who don't mind at all being pinned to
this Earth, held down, controlled, tyrannized and enslaved. There are the
Frontier's People (inlcuding me who is simply a frontier
colonialist....willing to help further any way to "Let the people go!") and
then there are the Corral's Sheeple.

GL

=====================

  #16  
Old July 21st 09, 03:07 AM posted to alt.philosophy,rec.arts.sf.written,sci.space.history,sci.econ
Uncle Al
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Posts: 697
Default Why Colonize Space?

Immortalista wrote:

Today I was reading some opinions of people who believe that there is
no reason for humans to leave earth. Are all arguments for moving into
space and onto other bodies in space really that weak and irrelevant?


If you venture outside the Earth's atmosphere you lose the equivalent
of a full yard of solid lead radiation shielding (and no heavy element
pair formation), 14.7 psi. Asstronaughts in Skulab, Mir, and ISS
FUBAR ahve a 95% incidence of radiation cataracts.

If you additionally venture outside the Earth's magnetosphere you get
cooked alive by solar storms and cosmic radiation.

Are there other arguments?

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2
  #17  
Old July 21st 09, 03:51 AM posted to alt.philosophy,rec.arts.sf.written,sci.space.history,sci.econ
Giga
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Posts: 112
Default Why Colonize Space?


"Uncle Al" wrote in message
...
Immortalista wrote:

Today I was reading some opinions of people who believe that there is
no reason for humans to leave earth. Are all arguments for moving into
space and onto other bodies in space really that weak and irrelevant?


If you venture outside the Earth's atmosphere you lose the equivalent
of a full yard of solid lead radiation shielding (and no heavy element
pair formation), 14.7 psi. Asstronaughts in Skulab, Mir, and ISS
FUBAR ahve a 95% incidence of radiation cataracts.

If you additionally venture outside the Earth's magnetosphere you get
cooked alive by solar storms and cosmic radiation.

Are there other arguments?

I'm sure there are other sheilding methods than just great big lumps of
lead. Surely one can generate something of a magnetic field around the
spaceship (loads of free electricity after all).


  #18  
Old July 21st 09, 03:56 AM posted to alt.philosophy,rec.arts.sf.written,sci.space.history,sci.physics,sci.econ
Giga
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Posts: 112
Default Why Colonize Space?


"Immortalista" wrote in message
...
Today I was reading some opinions of people who believe that there is
no reason for humans to leave earth. Are all arguments for moving into
space and onto other bodies in space really that weak and irrelevant?


To say on the one hand that there is no reason and on the other 'it is too
expensive' is a kind of a contradiction. This means that if it was a lot
cheaper then it would be justified, and that means there must be some reason
for doing it, and the persons putting forward such an argument obviously
recognise that. So if it just a question of allocation of resources, rather
than fundamental value of the enterprise, then fine, it should recognised as
a financial discussion, not really a philosophical one.


  #19  
Old July 21st 09, 03:59 AM posted to alt.philosophy,rec.arts.sf.written,sci.space.history,sci.econ
Bret Cahill
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Posts: 29
Default Why Colonize Space?

Today I was reading some opinions of people who believe that there is
no reason for humans to leave earth. Are all arguments for moving into
space and onto other bodies in space really that weak and irrelevant?


If you venture outside the Earth's atmosphere you lose the equivalent
of a full yard of solid lead radiation shielding (and no heavy element
pair formation), 14.7 psi. *Asstronaughts in Skulab, Mir, and ISS
FUBAR ahve a 95% incidence of radiation cataracts.

If you additionally venture outside the Earth's magnetosphere you get
cooked alive by solar storms and cosmic radiation.


Sounds almost as bad as Texas.


Bret Cahill


  #20  
Old July 21st 09, 04:15 AM posted to alt.philosophy,rec.arts.sf.written,sci.space.history,sci.physics,sci.econ
[email protected]
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Posts: 1,346
Default Why Colonize Space?

In sci.physics "Giga" "Giga" just(removetheseandaddmatthe wrote:

"Immortalista" wrote in message
...
Today I was reading some opinions of people who believe that there is
no reason for humans to leave earth. Are all arguments for moving into
space and onto other bodies in space really that weak and irrelevant?


To say on the one hand that there is no reason and on the other 'it is too
expensive' is a kind of a contradiction. This means that if it was a lot
cheaper then it would be justified, and that means there must be some reason
for doing it, and the persons putting forward such an argument obviously
recognise that. So if it just a question of allocation of resources, rather
than fundamental value of the enterprise, then fine, it should recognised as
a financial discussion, not really a philosophical one.


Depends on who you are talking about doing it and what you are talking
about doing.

Governments do lots of things for no other reason than enough people
think it is a "good idea" both directly and indirectly through grants.

Commercial enterprise doesn't do anything that doesn't have a ROI.

The only government colonies have all been penal colonies.


--
Jim Pennino

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