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#21
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A Toxic Leak Haunts the Shuttle Crew
Derek Lyons wrote: "snidely" wrote: [...] I quote myself since you seem to have missed it the first time around: "Go back to the top of this subthread; this isn't about the properties of ammonia." If we're arguing about whether anhydrous ammonia belongs in a group of substances that should be labvelled toxic, then yes we are talking about the properties of ammonia. Nor is it about dictionary definitions. Then do the right thing and provide a link to what you consider a proper definition. Stop being Rand. /dps |
#22
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A Toxic Leak Haunts the Shuttle Crew
"snidely" wrote in message ups.com... Derek Lyons wrote: "snidely" wrote: [...] I quote myself since you seem to have missed it the first time around: "Go back to the top of this subthread; this isn't about the properties of ammonia." If we're arguing about whether anhydrous ammonia belongs in a group of substances that should be labvelled toxic, then yes we are talking about the properties of ammonia. Nor is it about dictionary definitions. Then do the right thing and provide a link to what you consider a proper definition. Stop being Rand. /dps I've already done that: http://msds.ehs.cornell.edu/msds/msdsdod/a67/m33029.htm Obviously, the facts elude him. George |
#23
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A Toxic Leak Haunts the Shuttle Crew
Anyone familiar with the properties of anhydrous ammonia will tell you
that there is no question about its toxicity. http://msds.ehs.cornell.edu/msds/msdsdod/a67/m33029.htm Yes, because like most people, they misuse toxic as the media has for years. (Here a clue for you: The disposal methods for toxic materials are not 'use contaminated materials for fertilizer'.) Oct 5th, 2004 JDL Well, I for one am certainly glad that you aren't a first responder. I can see your reaction to an anyhdrous ammonia spill along a railline in a major city: "It's not toxic because 'they' missuse the word. Just leave it be." Meanwhile, as thousands succumb to the fumes... George George, as one who happens to be a First Responder and HAZMAT Level-A trained as well, I can tell you that anhydrous ammonia is nasty stuff. You definitely DO NOT want to just leave it be. Living in a more rural area here many of the farmers have large quantities on hand, also a large commercial food processor is here as well and their refrigeration is ammonia based. For either of them it's stored in tanks and we've had a few leaks/spills over the years (in one case a fork lift at the food processor hit a pipe and cut it - VERY ugly) and it's always a big deal to clean up the mess and stop the leak ASAP. More than once we've moved a significant portion of the village out of the way (total pop. right about 6000 now) depending on the location of the leak and the winds. ===[George R. Kasica]=== EMT-IV Tech #304005/PHTLS http://www.netwrx1.com/georgek ICQ #12862186 |
#24
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A Toxic Leak Haunts the Shuttle Crew
"Jim Oberg" wrote in message ... anybody else but me have problems with the terminology in the caption? A Toxic Leak Haunts the Shuttle Crew Considering how the shuttle toilet works, I'd be more worried about toxic dumps than toxic leaks. Jeff -- "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919) |
#25
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A Toxic Leak Haunts the Shuttle Crew
"George R. Kasica" wrote in message ... Anyone familiar with the properties of anhydrous ammonia will tell you that there is no question about its toxicity. http://msds.ehs.cornell.edu/msds/msdsdod/a67/m33029.htm Yes, because like most people, they misuse toxic as the media has for years. (Here a clue for you: The disposal methods for toxic materials are not 'use contaminated materials for fertilizer'.) Oct 5th, 2004 JDL Well, I for one am certainly glad that you aren't a first responder. I can see your reaction to an anyhdrous ammonia spill along a railline in a major city: "It's not toxic because 'they' missuse the word. Just leave it be." Meanwhile, as thousands succumb to the fumes... George George, as one who happens to be a First Responder and HAZMAT Level-A trained as well, I can tell you that anhydrous ammonia is nasty stuff. You definitely DO NOT want to just leave it be. Living in a more rural area here many of the farmers have large quantities on hand, also a large commercial food processor is here as well and their refrigeration is ammonia based. For either of them it's stored in tanks and we've had a few leaks/spills over the years (in one case a fork lift at the food processor hit a pipe and cut it - VERY ugly) and it's always a big deal to clean up the mess and stop the leak ASAP. More than once we've moved a significant portion of the village out of the way (total pop. right about 6000 now) depending on the location of the leak and the winds. ===[George R. Kasica]=== EMT-IV Tech #304005/PHTLS http://www.netwrx1.com/georgek ICQ #12862186 So am I. You need to address this to Derek, not me. George |
#26
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A Toxic Leak Haunts the Shuttle Crew
"snidely" wrote:
Derek Lyons wrote: "snidely" wrote: [...] I quote myself since you seem to have missed it the first time around: "Go back to the top of this subthread; this isn't about the properties of ammonia." If we're arguing about whether anhydrous ammonia belongs in a group of substances that should be labvelled toxic, then yes we are talking about the properties of ammonia. No. We, or at least I, am discussing the replacement (in popular usage) of a broad selection of words with the single word 'toxic'. Like I said (repeating myself for a third time), go back to the top of this subthread. D. -- Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh. -Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings. Oct 5th, 2004 JDL |
#27
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A Toxic Leak Haunts the Shuttle Crew
"George" wrote:
"As he leads his third spacewalk on the shuttle Discovery's mission to the International Space Station, one word is likely to be on Capt. Robert L. Curbeam Jr.'s mind today: ammonia." Umm, yes it is, Mr. D. Here's a clue for you since seem to be so badly in need of them; "subthread" != "thread". D. -- Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh. -Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings. Oct 5th, 2004 JDL |
#28
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A Toxic Leak Haunts the Shuttle Crew
"George" wrote in message ... Anhydrous ammonia is extremely toxic to people and to animals when it is released as a concentrated gas cloud in accidents such as a train derailment or a barge accident. Soil contaminated with ammonic fertilizer is another matter altogether. That said, I wouldn't recommend that either be let loose in an uncontrolled way within the confines of the ISS. Which is why I believe ISS doesn't use ammonia in the coolant loops that are inside the pressurized confines of ISS. It's only used on the outside, so you could only bring it into ISS through the airlock. But luckily when you're doing an EVA, you're in vaccuum and any ammonia that gets on your suit ought to quickly dissapate. But just in case, NASA had the astronaut bask in the sun to help get rid of any lingering ammonia. So in the end, you're not facing the same problem as you would on earth with a cloud of ammonia that may not quickly dissipate. Jeff -- "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919) |
#29
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A Toxic Leak Haunts the Shuttle Crew
On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 13:08:39 -0500, "George"
wrote: "George R. Kasica" wrote in message .. . Anyone familiar with the properties of anhydrous ammonia will tell you that there is no question about its toxicity. http://msds.ehs.cornell.edu/msds/msdsdod/a67/m33029.htm Yes, because like most people, they misuse toxic as the media has for years. (Here a clue for you: The disposal methods for toxic materials are not 'use contaminated materials for fertilizer'.) Oct 5th, 2004 JDL Well, I for one am certainly glad that you aren't a first responder. I can see your reaction to an anyhdrous ammonia spill along a railline in a major city: "It's not toxic because 'they' missuse the word. Just leave it be." Meanwhile, as thousands succumb to the fumes... George George, as one who happens to be a First Responder and HAZMAT Level-A trained as well, I can tell you that anhydrous ammonia is nasty stuff. You definitely DO NOT want to just leave it be. Living in a more rural area here many of the farmers have large quantities on hand, also a large commercial food processor is here as well and their refrigeration is ammonia based. For either of them it's stored in tanks and we've had a few leaks/spills over the years (in one case a fork lift at the food processor hit a pipe and cut it - VERY ugly) and it's always a big deal to clean up the mess and stop the leak ASAP. More than once we've moved a significant portion of the village out of the way (total pop. right about 6000 now) depending on the location of the leak and the winds. ===[George R. Kasica]=== EMT-IV Tech #304005/PHTLS http://www.netwrx1.com/georgek ICQ #12862186 So am I. You need to address this to Derek, not me. LOL...I suspected as much. I wasn't directing at you but more agreeing with your statement. Have a safe and Merry Christmas (and hopefully a peaceful and quiet one). ===[George R. Kasica]=== EMT-IV Tech #304005/PHTLS http://www.netwrx1.com/georgek ICQ #12862186 |
#30
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A Toxic Leak Haunts the Shuttle Crew
"Derek Lyons" wrote in message ... "George" wrote: "As he leads his third spacewalk on the shuttle Discovery's mission to the International Space Station, one word is likely to be on Capt. Robert L. Curbeam Jr.'s mind today: ammonia." Umm, yes it is, Mr. D. Here's a clue for you since seem to be so badly in need of them; "subthread" != "thread". D. -- Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh. -Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings. Oct 5th, 2004 JDL Since the quote above came straight from the OP, and speaks directly to the subject line of the thread, how do you manage to interpret it as a "subthread"? George |
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