A Space & astronomy forum. SpaceBanter.com

Go Back   Home » SpaceBanter.com forum » Space Science » Space Station
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

A Toxic Leak Haunts the Shuttle Crew



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old December 19th 06, 08:28 PM posted to sci.space.station
snidely
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,303
Default A Toxic Leak Haunts the Shuttle Crew


Derek Lyons wrote:
"snidely" wrote:

[...]
I quote myself since you seem to have missed it the first time around:

"Go back to the top of this subthread; this isn't about the
properties of ammonia."


If we're arguing about whether anhydrous ammonia belongs in a group of
substances that should be labvelled toxic, then yes we are talking
about the properties of ammonia.

Nor is it about dictionary definitions.


Then do the right thing and provide a link to what you consider a
proper definition.

Stop being Rand.

/dps

  #22  
Old December 19th 06, 09:02 PM posted to sci.space.station
George[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 884
Default A Toxic Leak Haunts the Shuttle Crew


"snidely" wrote in message
ups.com...

Derek Lyons wrote:
"snidely" wrote:

[...]
I quote myself since you seem to have missed it the first time around:

"Go back to the top of this subthread; this isn't about the
properties of ammonia."


If we're arguing about whether anhydrous ammonia belongs in a group of
substances that should be labvelled toxic, then yes we are talking
about the properties of ammonia.

Nor is it about dictionary definitions.


Then do the right thing and provide a link to what you consider a
proper definition.

Stop being Rand.

/dps


I've already done that:

http://msds.ehs.cornell.edu/msds/msdsdod/a67/m33029.htm

Obviously, the facts elude him.

George


  #23  
Old December 20th 06, 05:07 PM posted to sci.space.station
George R. Kasica
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 30
Default A Toxic Leak Haunts the Shuttle Crew

Anyone familiar with the properties of anhydrous ammonia will tell you
that
there is no question about its toxicity.

http://msds.ehs.cornell.edu/msds/msdsdod/a67/m33029.htm


Yes, because like most people, they misuse toxic as the media has for
years.

(Here a clue for you: The disposal methods for toxic materials are
not 'use contaminated materials for fertilizer'.)
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL


Well, I for one am certainly glad that you aren't a first responder. I can
see your reaction to an anyhdrous ammonia spill along a railline in a major
city: "It's not toxic because 'they' missuse the word. Just leave it be."
Meanwhile, as thousands succumb to the fumes...

George

George, as one who happens to be a First Responder and HAZMAT Level-A
trained as well, I can tell you that anhydrous ammonia is nasty stuff.
You definitely DO NOT want to just leave it be. Living in a more rural
area here many of the farmers have large quantities on hand, also a
large commercial food processor is here as well and their
refrigeration is ammonia based. For either of them it's stored in
tanks and we've had a few leaks/spills over the years (in one case a
fork lift at the food processor hit a pipe and cut it - VERY ugly) and
it's always a big deal to clean up the mess and stop the leak ASAP.
More than once we've moved a significant portion of the village out of
the way (total pop. right about 6000 now) depending on the location of
the leak and the winds.

===[George R. Kasica]===

EMT-IV Tech #304005/PHTLS

http://www.netwrx1.com/georgek
ICQ #12862186
  #24  
Old December 20th 06, 07:48 PM posted to sci.space.station
Jeff Findley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,012
Default A Toxic Leak Haunts the Shuttle Crew


"Jim Oberg" wrote in message
...
anybody else but me have problems with the terminology in the caption?


A Toxic Leak Haunts the Shuttle Crew


Considering how the shuttle toilet works, I'd be more worried about toxic
dumps than toxic leaks.

Jeff
--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
- B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919)


  #25  
Old December 21st 06, 07:08 PM posted to sci.space.station
George[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 884
Default A Toxic Leak Haunts the Shuttle Crew


"George R. Kasica" wrote in message
...
Anyone familiar with the properties of anhydrous ammonia will tell you
that
there is no question about its toxicity.

http://msds.ehs.cornell.edu/msds/msdsdod/a67/m33029.htm

Yes, because like most people, they misuse toxic as the media has for
years.

(Here a clue for you: The disposal methods for toxic materials are
not 'use contaminated materials for fertilizer'.)
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL


Well, I for one am certainly glad that you aren't a first responder. I
can
see your reaction to an anyhdrous ammonia spill along a railline in a
major
city: "It's not toxic because 'they' missuse the word. Just leave it
be."
Meanwhile, as thousands succumb to the fumes...

George

George, as one who happens to be a First Responder and HAZMAT Level-A
trained as well, I can tell you that anhydrous ammonia is nasty stuff.
You definitely DO NOT want to just leave it be. Living in a more rural
area here many of the farmers have large quantities on hand, also a
large commercial food processor is here as well and their
refrigeration is ammonia based. For either of them it's stored in
tanks and we've had a few leaks/spills over the years (in one case a
fork lift at the food processor hit a pipe and cut it - VERY ugly) and
it's always a big deal to clean up the mess and stop the leak ASAP.
More than once we've moved a significant portion of the village out of
the way (total pop. right about 6000 now) depending on the location of
the leak and the winds.

===[George R. Kasica]===

EMT-IV Tech #304005/PHTLS

http://www.netwrx1.com/georgek
ICQ #12862186


So am I. You need to address this to Derek, not me.

George


  #26  
Old December 22nd 06, 09:58 AM posted to sci.space.station
Derek Lyons
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,999
Default A Toxic Leak Haunts the Shuttle Crew

"snidely" wrote:


Derek Lyons wrote:
"snidely" wrote:

[...]
I quote myself since you seem to have missed it the first time around:

"Go back to the top of this subthread; this isn't about the
properties of ammonia."


If we're arguing about whether anhydrous ammonia belongs in a group of
substances that should be labvelled toxic, then yes we are talking
about the properties of ammonia.


No. We, or at least I, am discussing the replacement (in popular
usage) of a broad selection of words with the single word 'toxic'.
Like I said (repeating myself for a third time), go back to the top of
this subthread.

D.


--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
  #27  
Old December 22nd 06, 10:00 AM posted to sci.space.station
Derek Lyons
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,999
Default A Toxic Leak Haunts the Shuttle Crew

"George" wrote:

"As he leads his third spacewalk on the shuttle Discovery's mission to the
International Space Station, one word is likely to be on Capt. Robert L.
Curbeam Jr.'s mind today: ammonia."

Umm, yes it is, Mr. D.


Here's a clue for you since seem to be so badly in need of them;

"subthread" != "thread".

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
  #28  
Old December 22nd 06, 04:08 PM posted to sci.space.station
Jeff Findley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,012
Default A Toxic Leak Haunts the Shuttle Crew


"George" wrote in message
...
Anhydrous ammonia is extremely toxic to people and to animals when it is
released as a concentrated gas cloud in accidents such as a train
derailment or a barge accident. Soil contaminated with ammonic fertilizer
is another matter altogether. That said, I wouldn't recommend that either
be let loose in an uncontrolled way within the confines of the ISS.


Which is why I believe ISS doesn't use ammonia in the coolant loops that are
inside the pressurized confines of ISS. It's only used on the outside, so
you could only bring it into ISS through the airlock. But luckily when
you're doing an EVA, you're in vaccuum and any ammonia that gets on your
suit ought to quickly dissapate. But just in case, NASA had the astronaut
bask in the sun to help get rid of any lingering ammonia.

So in the end, you're not facing the same problem as you would on earth with
a cloud of ammonia that may not quickly dissipate.

Jeff
--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
- B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919)


  #29  
Old December 22nd 06, 05:10 PM posted to sci.space.station
George R. Kasica
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 30
Default A Toxic Leak Haunts the Shuttle Crew

On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 13:08:39 -0500, "George"
wrote:


"George R. Kasica" wrote in message
.. .
Anyone familiar with the properties of anhydrous ammonia will tell you
that
there is no question about its toxicity.

http://msds.ehs.cornell.edu/msds/msdsdod/a67/m33029.htm

Yes, because like most people, they misuse toxic as the media has for
years.

(Here a clue for you: The disposal methods for toxic materials are
not 'use contaminated materials for fertilizer'.)
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

Well, I for one am certainly glad that you aren't a first responder. I
can
see your reaction to an anyhdrous ammonia spill along a railline in a
major
city: "It's not toxic because 'they' missuse the word. Just leave it
be."
Meanwhile, as thousands succumb to the fumes...

George

George, as one who happens to be a First Responder and HAZMAT Level-A
trained as well, I can tell you that anhydrous ammonia is nasty stuff.
You definitely DO NOT want to just leave it be. Living in a more rural
area here many of the farmers have large quantities on hand, also a
large commercial food processor is here as well and their
refrigeration is ammonia based. For either of them it's stored in
tanks and we've had a few leaks/spills over the years (in one case a
fork lift at the food processor hit a pipe and cut it - VERY ugly) and
it's always a big deal to clean up the mess and stop the leak ASAP.
More than once we've moved a significant portion of the village out of
the way (total pop. right about 6000 now) depending on the location of
the leak and the winds.

===[George R. Kasica]===

EMT-IV Tech #304005/PHTLS

http://www.netwrx1.com/georgek
ICQ #12862186


So am I. You need to address this to Derek, not me.

LOL...I suspected as much. I wasn't directing at you but more agreeing
with your statement.

Have a safe and Merry Christmas (and hopefully a peaceful and quiet
one).
===[George R. Kasica]===

EMT-IV Tech #304005/PHTLS

http://www.netwrx1.com/georgek
ICQ #12862186
  #30  
Old December 23rd 06, 08:19 AM posted to sci.space.station
George[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 884
Default A Toxic Leak Haunts the Shuttle Crew


"Derek Lyons" wrote in message
...
"George" wrote:

"As he leads his third spacewalk on the shuttle Discovery's mission to
the
International Space Station, one word is likely to be on Capt. Robert L.
Curbeam Jr.'s mind today: ammonia."

Umm, yes it is, Mr. D.


Here's a clue for you since seem to be so badly in need of them;

"subthread" != "thread".

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL


Since the quote above came straight from the OP, and speaks directly to the
subject line of the thread, how do you manage to interpret it as a
"subthread"?

George


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
News - KSC Toxic Fuel Leak Prompts Evacuation of Two Shuttle Hangars Rusty Space Shuttle 3 November 7th 06 01:24 AM
News - KSC Toxic Fuel Leak Prompts Evacuation of Two Shuttle Hangars Rusty History 3 November 7th 06 01:24 AM
Leak Reported On Spacecraft That Will Bring ISS Crew To Earth Rusty Barton Space Shuttle 3 April 29th 04 06:20 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 SpaceBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.