International Space Resort? ( Griffin also hints at Orion visit to Hubble)

"Eric Chomko" wrote:

:
:Fred J. McCall wrote:
: "Eric Chomko" wrote:
:
: :
: :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : "Eric Chomko" wrote:
: :
: : :
: : :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : : "Eric Chomko" wrote:
: : :
: : : :
: : : :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : : : "Eric Chomko" wrote:
: : : :
: : : : :
: : : : :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : : : : "Eric Chomko" wrote:
: : : : :
: : : : : :
: : : : : :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : : : : : "Eric Chomko" wrote:
: : : : : :
: : : : : : :You may have a point as no one wanted Mir as it was dying. Anyway, if
: : : : : : :ISS can be a prototype for industry without actually be used as a
: : : : : : :manufacturing plant, then it will still will have provided value.
: : : : : :
: : : : : : But in no way commensurate with its costs.
: : : : : :
: : : : : :Very difficult to say prior to any findings. As of today I agree, but
: : : : : :who knows about the future.
: : : : :
: : : : : One applies intelligence, past experience, and knowledge and bets the
: : : : : odds. It'll never return anything even close to commensurate with its
: : : : : costs.
: : : : :
: : : : :Sounds like the US War Machine(TM).
: : : :
: : : : Easy for you to say ... thanks to that war machine providing you the
: : : : right.
: : : :
: : : :The right of what McClod?
: : :
: : : That whole 'free speech and expression' thing that you so stupidly
: : : abuse.
: : :
: : :So we're in Iraq to preserve freedom of speech in America?
: :
: : I said that where? If you want to make up both sides of the
: : conversation, Eric, stop putting my name in there.
: :
: : :First you
: : :correctly say it is about economics and then you trot out this tripe.
: :
: : Poor, simple minded Eric. Can't count past one. Take off your shoes
: : next time, El Chimpo.
: :
: :And unzip your fly when you count to 11.
:
: Now you want to unzip my fly?
:
:Why did the pollock walk around with his fly unzipped?
:
:In case he wanted to count to 11.

Pollack jokes? What next, Eric? Racial humour?

: How many times do I have to tell you
: that you're not my type, El Chimpo. I like to stay within the human
: species, you see.
:
:And yes, you prefer a different type of man.I get it...

No, you don't. No means no, Eric.

: : :Is this some sort of Orwellian "doublethink" on your part, McClod? Are
: : :you so brainwashed and learned at the same time you can't separate your
: : :beliefs with rational thought?
: :
: : Are you so stupid and ignorant that you can't recognize that reality
: : isn't single cause or single threaded?
: :
: :So now your beliefs are reality? What ever you say, Herr Himmler...
:
: No, El Chimpo, but REALITY is reality and your idiocy doesn't change
: it and your being simple doesn't make it simple.
:
:I have changed reality many times. You should see some of my remodeling
rojects.

And this is your idea of 'reality'. Yeah, of course. Whatever you
say...

: : : :You already said that wars are based in
: : : :economics.
: : :
: : : Yep.
: : :
: : : :So what economic implication is their to that "right" you're
: : : :talking about?
: : :
: : : You really are stupid enough to have to ask this question? Well, I
: : : guess I shouldn't be too surprised.
: : :
: : :No McClod, spell it out. How does getting cheaper oil going to preserve
: : :freedom of speech? Make the connection.
: :
: : Try sticking to what I say, El Chimpo. You are REALLY pathetic at
: : interpreting.
: :
: :No, you're lost and are backpeddling as fast as you can.
:
: In other words, you can't read and want to avoid the issue.
:
:You are the one avoiding. Is it your handlers, McClod?

You just go ahead and carry on your stupid dialog with yourself, El
Chimpo.

:
: : : :Face it, the troops are low paid mercenaries fighting an
: : : :economic war.
: : :
: : : I prefer to stick to 'facing' reality. I'll leave the idiotic bigoted
: : : fantasies to you and your ilk.
: : :
: : :My ilk? You admit that the war is economic, hell ALL of them are. And
: : :now when confronted with that fact you wrap yourself up in the flag?!
: : :Reality check, here. Get one!
: :
: : Any reality check from you would be sure to bounce, Eric. Nothing in
: : your account to cover it.
: :
: :Why fight wars, McClod?
:
: Why not, El Chimpo?
:
:Because they don't solve anything.

Really? Do be sure and tell Hitler, Tojo, and Mussolini all about
that.

: : : : : :Was Skylab also a waste of money?
: : : : :
: : : : : What was the ROI?
: : : : :
: : : : :First US space station.
: : : :
: : : : I know WHAT it was, you stupid git. Do you not know what ROI means?
: : : :
: : : :Return On Investment, the fancy accounting term for profit.
: : :
: : : ROI and 'profit' are not the same thing. Now answer the question.
: : :
: : :Okay, what exactly is the difference?
: :
: : You should have tried looking them up, Eric. You could have avoided
: : looking as stupid as you do now.
: :
: : Profit is 'net gain'. It's measured in monetary units. ROI is a
: : unitless number indicating percentage return.
: :
: :"Percentage return"? Expressed in what? Monetary units.
:
: Wrong. Expressed as a PERCENTAGE. No units, simpleton.
:
:It can be both! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_on_investment

No, it can't "be both", no matter how Wikipedia might misdefine
things. And even THEY don't agree with you. Try reading the first
couple of sentences.

: :Hey, maybe,
: :just maybe, they are interchangable...
:
: But then again, maybe they aren't. And sure enough, they aren't.
:
: :Think balance sheet, McClod. '
:
: Why?
:
:Because ROI shows up on them.

Nope.

: :Are
: :you going to use precentages or monetary units?
:
: Depends on what I'm looking at and why, El Chimpo. Why do you think
: the concept of ROI exists?
:
:On a balance sheet. You are wrong and know it. Sure ROI can be a
ercentage and usually is, but I stated accounting term. You're
:wrong...

Gee, don't tell my accounting professor. Of course, once he hears
what you have to say he probably wouldn't be able to stop laughing.

:
: id I say accounting term?
:
: No, you ignorantly misdefined ROI trying to prove that you knew what
: it meant.
:
:Look above.

Ok. You're still wrong. Now what?

:
: You didn't and now you're arguing that it doesn't mean what it means
: because what it means doesn't suit your stupid remarks.
:
:
:Sure I did.

Sure you did.

: :What is stupid is for you to argue that percentage of an ROI can't be
: :converted into $.
:
: There's no such thing as "percentage of an ROI". ROI ***IS*** a
: percentage, you ignorant git.
:
:
:Nope! Read the wiki article.

I'd suggest YOU read it. 'Return' can refer to an amount of money.
'Return On Investment' is a RATIO.

"This article or section is in need of attention from an expert on the
subject. Please help recruit one, or improve this page yourself if
you can. See discussion page for details."

: :Again, balance sheet.
:
: Again, ROI.
:
:
:Wrong, McClod.

Go read with understanding, dumbass.

: :How can you balance a percentage, McClod?
:
: Why do I need to, El Chimpo?
:
:
:Because when all is said and done ROI is what drops out of the plus
:side if you are making money.

Nope. Take a basic accounting course, dumbass.

: What's sad is that you really are this stupid.
:
: : To see the difference, assume that you invest a million dollars in a
: : company and I invest ten dollars. Suppose we each earn the same
: : amount in profit out of our investment. Is our ROI the same?
: :
: :No. x/10 vs. x/1,000,000, where x is the profit. Do the math, you still
: :get x.
:
: But the ROI is different. Which part of that is it that you simply
: can't comprehend?
:
: Now answer the question, WHAT WAS THE ROI ON SKYLAB?
:
: You're going to incredible lengths to expose your ignorance and then
: try to cover it up, all the while avoiding a simple answer that would
: satisfy your original question if only you were smart enough to
: understand and answer it.
:
:Read the wiki article. Will you then admit that as an accounting term
:ROI MUST be a dollar amout?

No, because that would be wrong.

Read it yourself. Pay particular attention to the difference between
'Return' and 'Return On Investment'. Also note that stuff at the top
indicating that the folks trying to manage the article recognize that
they don't know what they're talking about.

:
: : :Seems like the difference between
: : :'software engineer' and 'computer programmer'.
: :
: : I can't say I'm surprised that you don't know the difference between
: : the two. It is, after all, just one more bit of reality that seems to
: : have escaped your knowledge.
: :
: o explain the difference.
:
: You want lessons, send a check.
:
:
:You first.

But nobody is asking you to 'explain' anything because everyone knows
you're a ****ing idiot, Eric.

: :In no way does one imply a better skill than
: :the other, necessarily.
:
: Poor El Chimpo. Still can't read. Still an ignorant git.
:
: : :Skylab gave us more time in space and allowed us to get a glimpse of
: : :what time in space would be like. It was what it was. Not great but not
: : :a total waste either.
: :
: : But you still haven't determined if it was "a waste of money".
: :
: :I'd say no.
:
: So what was the ROI? What was the opportunity cost?
:
: You can't just reach up your ass for an answer and expect people to
: accept it, El Chimpo.
:
:
:Here you provide all that for the Viking missions and I'll respond in
:kind to the Skylab mission. If you can't do Viking why should I be
:asked to do Skylab? Deal?

Why would I want to do Viking? I haven't made any claims or asked any
questions.

You're the one making assertions. Back them up or look just as stupid
as, well, as you are, actually.

--
"A modest little person, with much to be modest about."
-- Winston Churchill

Fred J. McCall wrote:
"Eric Chomko" wrote:

:
:Fred J. McCall wrote:
: "Eric Chomko" wrote:
:
: :
: :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : "Eric Chomko" wrote:
: :
: : :
: : :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : : "Eric Chomko" wrote:
: : :
: : : :
: : : :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : : : "Eric Chomko" wrote:
: : : :
: : : : :
: : : : :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : : : : "Eric Chomko" wrote:
: : : : :
: : : : : :
: : : : : :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : : : : : "Eric Chomko" wrote:
: : : : : :
: : : : : : :You may have a point as no one wanted Mir as it was dying. Anyway, if
: : : : : : :ISS can be a prototype for industry without actually be used as a
: : : : : : :manufacturing plant, then it will still will have provided value.
: : : : : :
: : : : : : But in no way commensurate with its costs.
: : : : : :
: : : : : :Very difficult to say prior to any findings. As of today I agree, but
: : : : : :who knows about the future.
: : : : :
: : : : : One applies intelligence, past experience, and knowledge and bets the
: : : : : odds. It'll never return anything even close to commensurate with its
: : : : : costs.
: : : : :
: : : : :Sounds like the US War Machine(TM).
: : : :
: : : : Easy for you to say ... thanks to that war machine providing you the
: : : : right.
: : : :
: : : :The right of what McClod?
: : :
: : : That whole 'free speech and expression' thing that you so stupidly
: : : abuse.
: : :
: : :So we're in Iraq to preserve freedom of speech in America?
: :
: : I said that where? If you want to make up both sides of the
: : conversation, Eric, stop putting my name in there.
: :
: : :First you
: : :correctly say it is about economics and then you trot out this tripe.
: :
: : Poor, simple minded Eric. Can't count past one. Take off your shoes
: : next time, El Chimpo.
: :
: :And unzip your fly when you count to 11.
:
: Now you want to unzip my fly?
:
:Why did the pollock walk around with his fly unzipped?
:
:In case he wanted to count to 11.

Pollack jokes? What next, Eric? Racial humour?

A scotsman with a kilt on walks into a bar...


: How many times do I have to tell you
: that you're not my type, El Chimpo. I like to stay within the human
: species, you see.
:
:And yes, you prefer a different type of man.I get it...

No, you don't. No means no, Eric.


I'll leave all the Mark Folery to you.

: : :Is this some sort of Orwellian "doublethink" on your part, McClod? Are
: : :you so brainwashed and learned at the same time you can't separate your
: : :beliefs with rational thought?
: :
: : Are you so stupid and ignorant that you can't recognize that reality
: : isn't single cause or single threaded?
: :
: :So now your beliefs are reality? What ever you say, Herr Himmler...
:
: No, El Chimpo, but REALITY is reality and your idiocy doesn't change
: it and your being simple doesn't make it simple.
:
:I have changed reality many times. You should see some of my remodeling
rojects.

And this is your idea of 'reality'. Yeah, of course. Whatever you
say...

I have before and after pictures to prove it. Whatsmatter McClod,
feeling apathetic about your ability to effect a change in things?


: : : :You already said that wars are based in
: : : :economics.
: : :
: : : Yep.
: : :
: : : :So what economic implication is their to that "right" you're
: : : :talking about?
: : :
: : : You really are stupid enough to have to ask this question? Well, I
: : : guess I shouldn't be too surprised.
: : :
: : :No McClod, spell it out. How does getting cheaper oil going to preserve
: : :freedom of speech? Make the connection.
: :
: : Try sticking to what I say, El Chimpo. You are REALLY pathetic at
: : interpreting.
: :
: :No, you're lost and are backpeddling as fast as you can.
:
: In other words, you can't read and want to avoid the issue.
:
:You are the one avoiding. Is it your handlers, McClod?

You just go ahead and carry on your stupid dialog with yourself, El
Chimpo.


I am you and you are me, I'm the egg man...

:
: : : :Face it, the troops are low paid mercenaries fighting an
: : : :economic war.
: : :
: : : I prefer to stick to 'facing' reality. I'll leave the idiotic bigoted
: : : fantasies to you and your ilk.
: : :
: : :My ilk? You admit that the war is economic, hell ALL of them are. And
: : :now when confronted with that fact you wrap yourself up in the flag?!
: : :Reality check, here. Get one!
: :
: : Any reality check from you would be sure to bounce, Eric. Nothing in
: : your account to cover it.
: :
: :Why fight wars, McClod?
:
: Why not, El Chimpo?
:
:Because they don't solve anything.

Really? Do be sure and tell Hitler, Tojo, and Mussolini all about
that.

Tell me about Korea, Vietnam and Iraq.

: : : : : :Was Skylab also a waste of money?
: : : : :
: : : : : What was the ROI?
: : : : :
: : : : :First US space station.
: : : :
: : : : I know WHAT it was, you stupid git. Do you not know what ROI means?
: : : :
: : : :Return On Investment, the fancy accounting term for profit.
: : :
: : : ROI and 'profit' are not the same thing. Now answer the question.
: : :
: : :Okay, what exactly is the difference?
: :
: : You should have tried looking them up, Eric. You could have avoided
: : looking as stupid as you do now.
: :
: : Profit is 'net gain'. It's measured in monetary units. ROI is a
: : unitless number indicating percentage return.
: :
: :"Percentage return"? Expressed in what? Monetary units.
:
: Wrong. Expressed as a PERCENTAGE. No units, simpleton.
:
:It can be both! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_on_investment

No, it can't "be both", no matter how Wikipedia might misdefine
things. And even THEY don't agree with you. Try reading the first
couple of sentences.

Look he http://www.valuebasedmanagement.net/methods_roi.html

It states that ROI is a ratio. Sure a ratio can be expressed as a
percentage but it doesn't have to be.

: :Hey, maybe,
: :just maybe, they are interchangable...
:
: But then again, maybe they aren't. And sure enough, they aren't.
:
: :Think balance sheet, McClod. '
:
: Why?
:
:Because ROI shows up on them.

Nope.

It is a ratio: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_on_investment


: :Are
: :you going to use precentages or monetary units?
:
: Depends on what I'm looking at and why, El Chimpo. Why do you think
: the concept of ROI exists?
:
:On a balance sheet. You are wrong and know it. Sure ROI can be a
ercentage and usually is, but I stated accounting term. You're
:wrong...

Gee, don't tell my accounting professor. Of course, once he hears
what you have to say he probably wouldn't be able to stop laughing.

:
: id I say accounting term?
:
: No, you ignorantly misdefined ROI trying to prove that you knew what
: it meant.
:
:Look above.

Ok. You're still wrong. Now what?

Ratio is right. Percentage is too limited. Reread and learn this time.


:
: You didn't and now you're arguing that it doesn't mean what it means
: because what it means doesn't suit your stupid remarks.
:
:
:Sure I did.

Sure you did.

: :What is stupid is for you to argue that percentage of an ROI can't be
: :converted into $.
:
: There's no such thing as "percentage of an ROI". ROI ***IS*** a
: percentage, you ignorant git.
:
:
:Nope! Read the wiki article.

I'd suggest YOU read it. 'Return' can refer to an amount of money.
'Return On Investment' is a RATIO.


A ratio isn't the same thing as a percentage.

"This article or section is in need of attention from an expert on the
subject. Please help recruit one, or improve this page yourself if
you can. See discussion page for details."


Go ahead. Claim that ROI is a percentage and watch how quickly you get
corrected.

: :Again, balance sheet.
:
: Again, ROI.
:
:
:Wrong, McClod.

Go read with understanding, dumbass.

: :How can you balance a percentage, McClod?
:
: Why do I need to, El Chimpo?
:
:
:Because when all is said and done ROI is what drops out of the plus
:side if you are making money.

Nope. Take a basic accounting course, dumbass.

: What's sad is that you really are this stupid.
:
: : To see the difference, assume that you invest a million dollars in a
: : company and I invest ten dollars. Suppose we each earn the same
: : amount in profit out of our investment. Is our ROI the same?
: :
: :No. x/10 vs. x/1,000,000, where x is the profit. Do the math, you still
: :get x.
:
: But the ROI is different. Which part of that is it that you simply
: can't comprehend?
:
: Now answer the question, WHAT WAS THE ROI ON SKYLAB?
:
: You're going to incredible lengths to expose your ignorance and then
: try to cover it up, all the while avoiding a simple answer that would
: satisfy your original question if only you were smart enough to
: understand and answer it.
:
:Read the wiki article. Will you then admit that as an accounting term
:ROI MUST be a dollar amout?

No, because that would be wrong.

Ratio is correct. I see that you backed away from your percentage
claim. No admission of being wrong, simply backed away. That is a flaw,
Freddy...


Read it yourself. Pay particular attention to the difference between
'Return' and 'Return On Investment'. Also note that stuff at the top
indicating that the folks trying to manage the article recognize that
they don't know what they're talking about.

Ratio not precentage. They are different.

:
: : :Seems like the difference between
: : :'software engineer' and 'computer programmer'.
: :
: : I can't say I'm surprised that you don't know the difference between
: : the two. It is, after all, just one more bit of reality that seems to
: : have escaped your knowledge.
: :
: o explain the difference.
:
: You want lessons, send a check.
:
:
:You first.

But nobody is asking you to 'explain' anything because everyone knows
you're a ****ing idiot, Eric.

Temper, temper, McClod...

: :In no way does one imply a better skill than
: :the other, necessarily.
:
: Poor El Chimpo. Still can't read. Still an ignorant git.
:
: : :Skylab gave us more time in space and allowed us to get a glimpse of
: : :what time in space would be like. It was what it was. Not great but not
: : :a total waste either.
: :
: : But you still haven't determined if it was "a waste of money".
: :
: :I'd say no.
:
: So what was the ROI? What was the opportunity cost?
:
: You can't just reach up your ass for an answer and expect people to
: accept it, El Chimpo.
:
:
:Here you provide all that for the Viking missions and I'll respond in
:kind to the Skylab mission. If you can't do Viking why should I be
:asked to do Skylab? Deal?

Why would I want to do Viking? I haven't made any claims or asked any
questions.

You should do it for Viking (as an example) because you expect me to do
the same for Skylab. Your umwillingness to do what you ask of me is
suspect beyond the scope of your question.


You're the one making assertions. Back them up or look just as stupid
as, well, as you are, actually.

Admit you're a lazy ass that expects me to do something you yourself
would not do.

Eric

--
"A modest little person, with much to be modest about."
-- Winston Churchill

Fred J. McCall wrote:
"Eric Chomko" wrote:

:
:Rand Simberg wrote:
: On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:43:40 -0500, in a place far, far away, John Doe
: made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as
: to indicate that:
:
: Jeff Findley wrote:
: I'm wondering if your questions stem from a lack of understanding of orbital
: mechanics or from a lack of understanding high school geometry.
:
: I was thinking in terms of orbital plane. Consider launch windows are
: small for a 51° orbit from KSC, but much longer for 28°. So I was just
: wondering if at a lower orbital plane, the spacecraft would obscure one
: particular location longer.
:
: In other words, you're babbling, and have no idea what you're talking
: about.
:
:Maybe, but a helpful person explains why. A jerk answers just as you
:did.

And an ignorant idiot whines just as you are now when people won't
accept their nonsensical questions and positions as 'just as valuable'
as those coming from people who know something.

Would you repeat that, but in English this time and can you make some
sense?

I wonder if your ass kissing of Rand has had any effect? Maybe he'll
pull you out of his killfile? Keep kissing, McClod, let's find out.

Eric


--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson

"Eric Chomko" wrote:

:
:Fred J. McCall wrote:
: "Eric Chomko" wrote:
:
: :
: :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : "Eric Chomko" wrote:
: :
: : :
: : :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : : "Eric Chomko" wrote:
: : :
: : : :
: : : :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : : : "Eric Chomko" wrote:
: : : :
: : : : :
: : : : :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : : : : "Eric Chomko" wrote:
: : : : :
: : : : : :
: : : : : :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : : : : : "Eric Chomko" wrote:
: : : : : :
: : : : : : :
: : : : : : :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : : : : : : "Eric Chomko" wrote:
: : : : : : :
: : : : : : : :You may have a point as no one wanted Mir as it was dying. Anyway, if
: : : : : : : :ISS can be a prototype for industry without actually be used as a
: : : : : : : :manufacturing plant, then it will still will have provided value.
: : : : : : :
: : : : : : : But in no way commensurate with its costs.
: : : : : : :
: : : : : : :Very difficult to say prior to any findings. As of today I agree, but
: : : : : : :who knows about the future.
: : : : : :
: : : : : : One applies intelligence, past experience, and knowledge and bets the
: : : : : : odds. It'll never return anything even close to commensurate with its
: : : : : : costs.
: : : : : :
: : : : : :Sounds like the US War Machine(TM).
: : : : :
: : : : : Easy for you to say ... thanks to that war machine providing you the
: : : : : right.
: : : : :
: : : : :The right of what McClod?
: : : :
: : : : That whole 'free speech and expression' thing that you so stupidly
: : : : abuse.
: : : :
: : : :So we're in Iraq to preserve freedom of speech in America?
: : :
: : : I said that where? If you want to make up both sides of the
: : : conversation, Eric, stop putting my name in there.
: : :
: : : :First you
: : : :correctly say it is about economics and then you trot out this tripe.
: : :
: : : Poor, simple minded Eric. Can't count past one. Take off your shoes
: : : next time, El Chimpo.
: : :
: : :And unzip your fly when you count to 11.
: :
: : Now you want to unzip my fly?
: :
: :Why did the pollock walk around with his fly unzipped?
: :
: :In case he wanted to count to 11.
:
: Pollack jokes? What next, Eric? Racial humour?
:
:A scotsman with a kilt on walks into a bar...

And immediately has to rebuff El Chimpo....

: : How many times do I have to tell you
: : that you're not my type, El Chimpo. I like to stay within the human
: : species, you see.
: :
: :And yes, you prefer a different type of man.I get it...
:
: No, you don't. No means no, Eric.
:
:I'll leave all the Mark Folery to you.

Then stop trying.

: : : :Is this some sort of Orwellian "doublethink" on your part, McClod? Are
: : : :you so brainwashed and learned at the same time you can't separate your
: : : :beliefs with rational thought?
: : :
: : : Are you so stupid and ignorant that you can't recognize that reality
: : : isn't single cause or single threaded?
: : :
: : :So now your beliefs are reality? What ever you say, Herr Himmler...
: :
: : No, El Chimpo, but REALITY is reality and your idiocy doesn't change
: : it and your being simple doesn't make it simple.
: :
: :I have changed reality many times. You should see some of my remodeling
: rojects.
:
: And this is your idea of 'reality'. Yeah, of course. Whatever you
: say...
:
:I have before and after pictures to prove it. Whatsmatter McClod,
:feeling apathetic about your ability to effect a change in things?

Poor Eric. The limit of his reach to affect reality is 'remodel'.

What a pathetic loser!

: : : : :You already said that wars are based in
: : : : :economics.
: : : :
: : : : Yep.
: : : :
: : : : :So what economic implication is their to that "right" you're
: : : : :talking about?
: : : :
: : : : You really are stupid enough to have to ask this question? Well, I
: : : : guess I shouldn't be too surprised.
: : : :
: : : :No McClod, spell it out. How does getting cheaper oil going to preserve
: : : :freedom of speech? Make the connection.
: : :
: : : Try sticking to what I say, El Chimpo. You are REALLY pathetic at
: : : interpreting.
: : :
: : :No, you're lost and are backpeddling as fast as you can.
: :
: : In other words, you can't read and want to avoid the issue.
: :
: :You are the one avoiding. Is it your handlers, McClod?
:
: You just go ahead and carry on your stupid dialog with yourself, El
: Chimpo.
:
:I am you and you are me, I'm the egg man...

No, you're just the egg.

: : : : :Face it, the troops are low paid mercenaries fighting an
: : : : :economic war.
: : : :
: : : : I prefer to stick to 'facing' reality. I'll leave the idiotic bigoted
: : : : fantasies to you and your ilk.
: : : :
: : : :My ilk? You admit that the war is economic, hell ALL of them are. And
: : : :now when confronted with that fact you wrap yourself up in the flag?!
: : : :Reality check, here. Get one!
: : :
: : : Any reality check from you would be sure to bounce, Eric. Nothing in
: : : your account to cover it.
: : :
: : :Why fight wars, McClod?
: :
: : Why not, El Chimpo?
: :
: :Because they don't solve anything.
:
: Really? Do be sure and tell Hitler, Tojo, and Mussolini all about
: that.
:
:Tell me about Korea, Vietnam and Iraq.

Why? I already proved your original statement was idiotically false
by citing numerous obvious counter-examples.

Logic course - take one.

: : : : : : :Was Skylab also a waste of money?
: : : : : :
: : : : : : What was the ROI?
: : : : : :
: : : : : :First US space station.
: : : : :
: : : : : I know WHAT it was, you stupid git. Do you not know what ROI means?
: : : : :
: : : : :Return On Investment, the fancy accounting term for profit.
: : : :
: : : : ROI and 'profit' are not the same thing. Now answer the question.
: : : :
: : : :Okay, what exactly is the difference?
: : :
: : : You should have tried looking them up, Eric. You could have avoided
: : : looking as stupid as you do now.
: : :
: : : Profit is 'net gain'. It's measured in monetary units. ROI is a
: : : unitless number indicating percentage return.
: : :
: : :"Percentage return"? Expressed in what? Monetary units.
: :
: : Wrong. Expressed as a PERCENTAGE. No units, simpleton.
: :
: :It can be both! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_on_investment
:
: No, it can't "be both", no matter how Wikipedia might misdefine
: things. And even THEY don't agree with you. Try reading the first
: couple of sentences.
:
:Look he http://www.valuebasedmanagement.net/methods_roi.html
:
:It states that ROI is a ratio. Sure a ratio can be expressed as a
ercentage but it doesn't have to be.

But what it isn't expressed as is 'dollars', which is what you've been
insisting.

But what it isn't is 'profit', which is what you've been insisting.

Hint - any 'ratio' is easily expressed as a percentage, which is
typically done in order to get somewhat more wieldy numbers.

: : :Hey, maybe,
: : :just maybe, they are interchangable...
: :
: : But then again, maybe they aren't. And sure enough, they aren't.
: :
: : :Think balance sheet, McClod. '
: :
: : Why?
: :
: :Because ROI shows up on them.
:
: Nope.
:
:It is a ratio: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_on_investment

That's nice. It still doesn't show up on balance sheets, although one
can find the pieces there.

: : :Are
: : :you going to use precentages or monetary units?
: :
: : Depends on what I'm looking at and why, El Chimpo. Why do you think
: : the concept of ROI exists?
: :
: :On a balance sheet. You are wrong and know it. Sure ROI can be a
: ercentage and usually is, but I stated accounting term. You're
: :wrong...
:
: Gee, don't tell my accounting professor. Of course, once he hears
: what you have to say he probably wouldn't be able to stop laughing.
:
: :
: : id I say accounting term?
: :
: : No, you ignorantly misdefined ROI trying to prove that you knew what
: : it meant.
: :
: :Look above.
:
: Ok. You're still wrong. Now what?
:
:Ratio is right. Percentage is too limited. Reread and learn this time.

Either is correct. Take a course or two.

: : You didn't and now you're arguing that it doesn't mean what it means
: : because what it means doesn't suit your stupid remarks.
: :
: :
: :Sure I did.
:
: Sure you did.
:
: : :What is stupid is for you to argue that percentage of an ROI can't be
: : :converted into $.
: :
: : There's no such thing as "percentage of an ROI". ROI ***IS*** a
: : percentage, you ignorant git.
: :
: :
: :Nope! Read the wiki article.
:
: I'd suggest YOU read it. 'Return' can refer to an amount of money.
: 'Return On Investment' is a RATIO.
:
:
:A ratio isn't the same thing as a percentage.

Any ratio can be expressed as a percentage and vice versa.

What a ratio is NOT is expressed as 'dollars', which is what you've
insisted.

: "This article or section is in need of attention from an expert on the
: subject. Please help recruit one, or improve this page yourself if
: you can. See discussion page for details."
:
:Go ahead. Claim that ROI is a percentage and watch how quickly you get
:corrected.

Poor Eric. Sadly he really is exactly this stupid...

: : :Again, balance sheet.
: :
: : Again, ROI.
: :
: :
: :Wrong, McClod.
:
: Go read with understanding, dumbass.
:
: : :How can you balance a percentage, McClod?
: :
: : Why do I need to, El Chimpo?
: :
: :
: :Because when all is said and done ROI is what drops out of the plus
: :side if you are making money.
:
: Nope. Take a basic accounting course, dumbass.
:
: : What's sad is that you really are this stupid.
: :
: : : To see the difference, assume that you invest a million dollars in a
: : : company and I invest ten dollars. Suppose we each earn the same
: : : amount in profit out of our investment. Is our ROI the same?
: : :
: : :No. x/10 vs. x/1,000,000, where x is the profit. Do the math, you still
: : :get x.
: :
: : But the ROI is different. Which part of that is it that you simply
: : can't comprehend?
: :
: : Now answer the question, WHAT WAS THE ROI ON SKYLAB?
: :
: : You're going to incredible lengths to expose your ignorance and then
: : try to cover it up, all the while avoiding a simple answer that would
: : satisfy your original question if only you were smart enough to
: : understand and answer it.
: :
: :Read the wiki article. Will you then admit that as an accounting term
: :ROI MUST be a dollar amout?
:
: No, because that would be wrong.
:
:Ratio is correct. I see that you backed away from your percentage
:claim. No admission of being wrong, simply backed away. That is a flaw,
:Freddy...

Take some elementary school math, El Chimpo.

: Read it yourself. Pay particular attention to the difference between
: 'Return' and 'Return On Investment'. Also note that stuff at the top
: indicating that the folks trying to manage the article recognize that
: they don't know what they're talking about.
:
:Ratio not precentage. They are different.

Oh? And what would that difference be?

: : : :Seems like the difference between
: : : :'software engineer' and 'computer programmer'.
: : :
: : : I can't say I'm surprised that you don't know the difference between
: : : the two. It is, after all, just one more bit of reality that seems to
: : : have escaped your knowledge.
: : :
: : o explain the difference.
: :
: : You want lessons, send a check.
: :
: :
: :You first.
:
: But nobody is asking you to 'explain' anything because everyone knows
: you're a ****ing idiot, Eric.
:
:Temper, temper, McClod...

Poor El Chimpo. He actually thinks he matters enough for someone to
feel some emotion other than amusement over the idiocy he spews...

: : :In no way does one imply a better skill than
: : :the other, necessarily.
: :
: : Poor El Chimpo. Still can't read. Still an ignorant git.
: :
: : : :Skylab gave us more time in space and allowed us to get a glimpse of
: : : :what time in space would be like. It was what it was. Not great but not
: : : :a total waste either.
: : :
: : : But you still haven't determined if it was "a waste of money".
: : :
: : :I'd say no.
: :
: : So what was the ROI? What was the opportunity cost?
: :
: : You can't just reach up your ass for an answer and expect people to
: : accept it, El Chimpo.
: :
: :
: :Here you provide all that for the Viking missions and I'll respond in
: :kind to the Skylab mission. If you can't do Viking why should I be
: :asked to do Skylab? Deal?
:
: Why would I want to do Viking? I haven't made any claims or asked any
: questions.
:
:You should do it for Viking (as an example) because you expect me to do
:the same for Skylab. Your umwillingness to do what you ask of me is
:suspect beyond the scope of your question.

You asked me a question, Eric. I asked you a question back so as to
demonstrate the answer to your question.

So what does Viking have to do with any of that, again?

: You're the one making assertions. Back them up or look just as stupid
: as, well, as you are, actually.
:
:Admit you're a lazy ass that expects me to do something you yourself
:would not do.

No, El Chimpo. You're doing just exactly what I expect you to.

snicker

--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson

"Eric Chomko" wrote:

:
:Fred J. McCall wrote:
: "Eric Chomko" wrote:
:
: :
: :Rand Simberg wrote:
: : On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:43:40 -0500, in a place far, far away, John Doe
: : made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as
: : to indicate that:
: :
: : Jeff Findley wrote:
: : I'm wondering if your questions stem from a lack of understanding of orbital
: : mechanics or from a lack of understanding high school geometry.
: :
: : I was thinking in terms of orbital plane. Consider launch windows are
: : small for a 51° orbit from KSC, but much longer for 28°. So I was just
: : wondering if at a lower orbital plane, the spacecraft would obscure one
: : particular location longer.
: :
: : In other words, you're babbling, and have no idea what you're talking
: : about.
: :
: :Maybe, but a helpful person explains why. A jerk answers just as you
: :did.
:
: And an ignorant idiot whines just as you are now when people won't
: accept their nonsensical questions and positions as 'just as valuable'
: as those coming from people who know something.
:
:Would you repeat that, but in English this time and can you make some
:sense?

Reading - try to learn how, Eric.

:I wonder if your ass kissing of Rand has had any effect? Maybe he'll
ull you out of his killfile? Keep kissing, McClod, let's find out.

Poor Eric. He thinks just because the preceding is what motivates him
that it must be what everyone else does.

--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn

Fred J. McCall wrote:
"Eric Chomko" wrote:

:
:Fred J. McCall wrote:
: "Eric Chomko" wrote:
:
: :
: :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : "Eric Chomko" wrote:
: :
: : :
: : :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : : "Eric Chomko" wrote:
: : :
: : : :
: : : :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : : : "Eric Chomko" wrote:
: : : :
: : : : :
: : : : :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : : : : "Eric Chomko" wrote:
: : : : :
: : : : : :
: : : : : :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : : : : : "Eric Chomko" wrote:
: : : : : :
: : : : : : :
: : : : : : :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : : : : : : "Eric Chomko" wrote:
: : : : : : :
: : : : : : : :You may have a point as no one wanted Mir as it was dying. Anyway, if
: : : : : : : :ISS can be a prototype for industry without actually be used as a
: : : : : : : :manufacturing plant, then it will still will have provided value.
: : : : : : :
: : : : : : : But in no way commensurate with its costs.
: : : : : : :
: : : : : : :Very difficult to say prior to any findings. As of today I agree, but
: : : : : : :who knows about the future.
: : : : : :
: : : : : : One applies intelligence, past experience, and knowledge and bets the
: : : : : : odds. It'll never return anything even close to commensurate with its
: : : : : : costs.
: : : : : :
: : : : : :Sounds like the US War Machine(TM).
: : : : :
: : : : : Easy for you to say ... thanks to that war machine providing you the
: : : : : right.
: : : : :
: : : : :The right of what McClod?
: : : :
: : : : That whole 'free speech and expression' thing that you so stupidly
: : : : abuse.
: : : :
: : : :So we're in Iraq to preserve freedom of speech in America?
: : :
: : : I said that where? If you want to make up both sides of the
: : : conversation, Eric, stop putting my name in there.
: : :
: : : :First you
: : : :correctly say it is about economics and then you trot out this tripe.
: : :
: : : Poor, simple minded Eric. Can't count past one. Take off your shoes
: : : next time, El Chimpo.
: : :
: : :And unzip your fly when you count to 11.
: :
: : Now you want to unzip my fly?
: :
: :Why did the pollock walk around with his fly unzipped?
: :
: :In case he wanted to count to 11.
:
: Pollack jokes? What next, Eric? Racial humour?
:
:A scotsman with a kilt on walks into a bar...

And immediately has to rebuff El Chimpo....

No, that's not how it goes. The scotsman walks over to the piano to
complain about the monkey that belongs to the piano player...


: : How many times do I have to tell you
: : that you're not my type, El Chimpo. I like to stay within the human
: : species, you see.
: :
: :And yes, you prefer a different type of man.I get it...
:
: No, you don't. No means no, Eric.
:
:I'll leave all the Mark Folery to you.

Then stop trying.


Trying what, McClod?

: : : :Is this some sort of Orwellian "doublethink" on your part, McClod? Are
: : : :you so brainwashed and learned at the same time you can't separate your
: : : :beliefs with rational thought?
: : :
: : : Are you so stupid and ignorant that you can't recognize that reality
: : : isn't single cause or single threaded?
: : :
: : :So now your beliefs are reality? What ever you say, Herr Himmler...
: :
: : No, El Chimpo, but REALITY is reality and your idiocy doesn't change
: : it and your being simple doesn't make it simple.
: :
: :I have changed reality many times. You should see some of my remodeling
: rojects.
:
: And this is your idea of 'reality'. Yeah, of course. Whatever you
: say...
:
:I have before and after pictures to prove it. Whatsmatter McClod,
:feeling apathetic about your ability to effect a change in things?

Poor Eric. The limit of his reach to affect reality is 'remodel'.

What a pathetic loser!

Saves a lot of money when you do it yourself. Have you ever remodeled a
house, McClod? Or do you just make a habit out of ****ing off the
contractors? I bet you look down at blue collar workers don't you,
McClod?


: : : : :You already said that wars are based in
: : : : :economics.
: : : :
: : : : Yep.
: : : :
: : : : :So what economic implication is their to that "right" you're
: : : : :talking about?
: : : :
: : : : You really are stupid enough to have to ask this question? Well, I
: : : : guess I shouldn't be too surprised.
: : : :
: : : :No McClod, spell it out. How does getting cheaper oil going to preserve
: : : :freedom of speech? Make the connection.
: : :
: : : Try sticking to what I say, El Chimpo. You are REALLY pathetic at
: : : interpreting.
: : :
: : :No, you're lost and are backpeddling as fast as you can.
: :
: : In other words, you can't read and want to avoid the issue.
: :
: :You are the one avoiding. Is it your handlers, McClod?
:
: You just go ahead and carry on your stupid dialog with yourself, El
: Chimpo.
:
:I am you and you are me, I'm the egg man...

No, you're just the egg.

Does that make you a chicken? (You're so easy!)


: : : : :Face it, the troops are low paid mercenaries fighting an
: : : : :economic war.
: : : :
: : : : I prefer to stick to 'facing' reality. I'll leave the idiotic bigoted
: : : : fantasies to you and your ilk.
: : : :
: : : :My ilk? You admit that the war is economic, hell ALL of them are. And
: : : :now when confronted with that fact you wrap yourself up in the flag?!
: : : :Reality check, here. Get one!
: : :
: : : Any reality check from you would be sure to bounce, Eric. Nothing in
: : : your account to cover it.
: : :
: : :Why fight wars, McClod?
: :
: : Why not, El Chimpo?
: :
: :Because they don't solve anything.
:
: Really? Do be sure and tell Hitler, Tojo, and Mussolini all about
: that.
:
:Tell me about Korea, Vietnam and Iraq.

Why? I already proved your original statement was idiotically false
by citing numerous obvious counter-examples.

The point is that you can't prove that the Korea, Vietnam or Iraq wars
solved a damn thing.


Logic course - take one.

I have taken several actually. Did you know that logic courses are part
of the philosophy cirriculum?


: : : : : : :Was Skylab also a waste of money?
: : : : : :
: : : : : : What was the ROI?
: : : : : :
: : : : : :First US space station.
: : : : :
: : : : : I know WHAT it was, you stupid git. Do you not know what ROI means?
: : : : :
: : : : :Return On Investment, the fancy accounting term for profit.
: : : :
: : : : ROI and 'profit' are not the same thing. Now answer the question.
: : : :
: : : :Okay, what exactly is the difference?
: : :
: : : You should have tried looking them up, Eric. You could have avoided
: : : looking as stupid as you do now.
: : :
: : : Profit is 'net gain'. It's measured in monetary units. ROI is a
: : : unitless number indicating percentage return.
: : :
: : :"Percentage return"? Expressed in what? Monetary units.
: :
: : Wrong. Expressed as a PERCENTAGE. No units, simpleton.
: :
: :It can be both! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_on_investment
:
: No, it can't "be both", no matter how Wikipedia might misdefine
: things. And even THEY don't agree with you. Try reading the first
: couple of sentences.
:
:Look he http://www.valuebasedmanagement.net/methods_roi.html
:
:It states that ROI is a ratio. Sure a ratio can be expressed as a
ercentage but it doesn't have to be.

But what it isn't expressed as is 'dollars', which is what you've been
insisting.

But it can be! What do you think the numbers are that are being
compared? Dollars!


But what it isn't is 'profit', which is what you've been insisting.

Not exactly profit, but very similar. Freddy, can profit be expressed
as a percentage?

Hint - any 'ratio' is easily expressed as a percentage, which is
typically done in order to get somewhat more wieldy numbers.

But take that precentage and see if you get back the actual dollar
numbers.


: : :Hey, maybe,
: : :just maybe, they are interchangable...
: :
: : But then again, maybe they aren't. And sure enough, they aren't.
: :
: : :Think balance sheet, McClod. '
: :
: : Why?
: :
: :Because ROI shows up on them.
:
: Nope.
:
:It is a ratio: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_on_investment

That's nice. It still doesn't show up on balance sheets, although one
can find the pieces there.

Profit/Loss statement.


: : :Are
: : :you going to use precentages or monetary units?
: :
: : Depends on what I'm looking at and why, El Chimpo. Why do you think
: : the concept of ROI exists?
: :
: :On a balance sheet. You are wrong and know it. Sure ROI can be a
: ercentage and usually is, but I stated accounting term. You're
: :wrong...
:
: Gee, don't tell my accounting professor. Of course, once he hears
: what you have to say he probably wouldn't be able to stop laughing.
:
: :
: : id I say accounting term?
: :
: : No, you ignorantly misdefined ROI trying to prove that you knew what
: : it meant.
: :
: :Look above.
:
: Ok. You're still wrong. Now what?
:
:Ratio is right. Percentage is too limited. Reread and learn this time.

Either is correct. Take a course or two.

Freddy, if I gave you an ROI percentage alone could you create the
original ratio? Now, tell me how either is correct.

Here is a great lesson for you. Don't get mad and try and change the
argument. Take the fact that you learned something here as the real
value and allow that be adequate to wipe away the fact that you were
wrong, which really is no big deal!

: : You didn't and now you're arguing that it doesn't mean what it means
: : because what it means doesn't suit your stupid remarks.
: :
: :
: :Sure I did.
:
: Sure you did.
:
: : :What is stupid is for you to argue that percentage of an ROI can't be
: : :converted into $.
: :
: : There's no such thing as "percentage of an ROI". ROI ***IS*** a
: : percentage, you ignorant git.
: :
: :
: :Nope! Read the wiki article.
:
: I'd suggest YOU read it. 'Return' can refer to an amount of money.
: 'Return On Investment' is a RATIO.
:
:
:A ratio isn't the same thing as a percentage.

Any ratio can be expressed as a percentage and vice versa.

Vice-versa? If I say 50%, do you if that means 1/2, 3/6 or
24,000/48,000 and those numbers are meaningful, so you must KNOW at
least one!


What a ratio is NOT is expressed as 'dollars', which is what you've
insisted.

Okay, then what do the numbers represent? And do recall, Fred, that I
used the word 'accounting' at the beginning of this thread.


: "This article or section is in need of attention from an expert on the
: subject. Please help recruit one, or improve this page yourself if
: you can. See discussion page for details."
:
:Go ahead. Claim that ROI is a percentage and watch how quickly you get
:corrected.

Poor Eric. Sadly he really is exactly this stupid...

Gi ahead, change the wiki article and let's see what happens.


: : :Again, balance sheet.
: :
: : Again, ROI.
: :
: :
: :Wrong, McClod.
:
: Go read with understanding, dumbass.
:
: : :How can you balance a percentage, McClod?
: :
: : Why do I need to, El Chimpo?
: :
: :
: :Because when all is said and done ROI is what drops out of the plus
: :side if you are making money.
:
: Nope. Take a basic accounting course, dumbass.
:
: : What's sad is that you really are this stupid.
: :
: : : To see the difference, assume that you invest a million dollars in a
: : : company and I invest ten dollars. Suppose we each earn the same
: : : amount in profit out of our investment. Is our ROI the same?
: : :
: : :No. x/10 vs. x/1,000,000, where x is the profit. Do the math, you still
: : :get x.
: :
: : But the ROI is different. Which part of that is it that you simply
: : can't comprehend?
: :
: : Now answer the question, WHAT WAS THE ROI ON SKYLAB?
: :
: : You're going to incredible lengths to expose your ignorance and then
: : try to cover it up, all the while avoiding a simple answer that would
: : satisfy your original question if only you were smart enough to
: : understand and answer it.
: :
: :Read the wiki article. Will you then admit that as an accounting term
: :ROI MUST be a dollar amout?
:
: No, because that would be wrong.
:
:Ratio is correct. I see that you backed away from your percentage
:claim. No admission of being wrong, simply backed away. That is a flaw,
:Freddy...

Take some elementary school math, El Chimpo.


Teaching my daughter some right now, McClod.

: Read it yourself. Pay particular attention to the difference between
: 'Return' and 'Return On Investment'. Also note that stuff at the top
: indicating that the folks trying to manage the article recognize that
: they don't know what they're talking about.
:
:Ratio not precentage. They are different.

Oh? And what would that difference be?

Again if the two numbers you are comparing have meaning elsewhere (like
on a profit/loss statement) and they usually do, the percentage alone
won't help you get those numbers, unless you know at least one of them.

It is a many-to-one mapping (percentage) vs. a one-to-many mapping
(ratio). You are trying to equate the two, necessarily. You can't

Here's an example I think you can appreciate. You give me 500 dollars
from a client and I give your client $2 and tell him that he has a 40%
ROI on a particular investment. Unless your client KNEW about the $500
vs. $5, he'd have know way of knowing that I ripped him off.


: : : :Seems like the difference between
: : : :'software engineer' and 'computer programmer'.
: : :
: : : I can't say I'm surprised that you don't know the difference between
: : : the two. It is, after all, just one more bit of reality that seems to
: : : have escaped your knowledge.
: : :
: : o explain the difference.
: :
: : You want lessons, send a check.
: :
: :
: :You first.
:
: But nobody is asking you to 'explain' anything because everyone knows
: you're a ****ing idiot, Eric.
:
:Temper, temper, McClod...

Poor El Chimpo. He actually thinks he matters enough for someone to
feel some emotion other than amusement over the idiocy he spews...


You're so wrapped with being right it is silly. Your rightousness has
spilled over into the self-rightousness realm.

: : :In no way does one imply a better skill than
: : :the other, necessarily.
: :
: : Poor El Chimpo. Still can't read. Still an ignorant git.
: :
: : : :Skylab gave us more time in space and allowed us to get a glimpse of
: : : :what time in space would be like. It was what it was. Not great but not
: : : :a total waste either.
: : :
: : : But you still haven't determined if it was "a waste of money".
: : :
: : :I'd say no.
: :
: : So what was the ROI? What was the opportunity cost?
: :
: : You can't just reach up your ass for an answer and expect people to
: : accept it, El Chimpo.
: :
: :
: :Here you provide all that for the Viking missions and I'll respond in
: :kind to the Skylab mission. If you can't do Viking why should I be
: :asked to do Skylab? Deal?
:
: Why would I want to do Viking? I haven't made any claims or asked any
: questions.
:
:You should do it for Viking (as an example) because you expect me to do
:the same for Skylab. Your umwillingness to do what you ask of me is
:suspect beyond the scope of your question.

You asked me a question, Eric. I asked you a question back so as to
demonstrate the answer to your question.


IOW, punt...

So what does Viking have to do with any of that, again?


An example of what you are looking for from me doing an ROI on Skylab.
It is called, if you want me to spin my wheels with a vague exercise,
then it is within my right to ask you for an example.

: You're the one making assertions. Back them up or look just as stupid
: as, well, as you are, actually.
:
:Admit you're a lazy ass that expects me to do something you yourself
:would not do.

No, El Chimpo. You're doing just exactly what I expect you to.

snicker

No, you expected me to come up with a bunch of **** that you would
claim as wrong, and then ask me to do it over again. I didn't bite...

snicker

Eric

--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson

Fred J. McCall wrote:
"Eric Chomko" wrote:

:
:Fred J. McCall wrote:
: "Eric Chomko" wrote:
:
: :
: :Rand Simberg wrote:
: : On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:43:40 -0500, in a place far, far away, John Doe
: : made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as
: : to indicate that:
: :
: : Jeff Findley wrote:
: : I'm wondering if your questions stem from a lack of understanding of orbital
: : mechanics or from a lack of understanding high school geometry.
: :
: : I was thinking in terms of orbital plane. Consider launch windows are
: : small for a 51° orbit from KSC, but much longer for 28°. So I was just
: : wondering if at a lower orbital plane, the spacecraft would obscure one
: : particular location longer.
: :
: : In other words, you're babbling, and have no idea what you're talking
: : about.
: :
: :Maybe, but a helpful person explains why. A jerk answers just as you
: :did.
:
: And an ignorant idiot whines just as you are now when people won't
: accept their nonsensical questions and positions as 'just as valuable'
: as those coming from people who know something.
:
:Would you repeat that, but in English this time and can you make some
:sense?

Reading - try to learn how, Eric.

:I wonder if your ass kissing of Rand has had any effect? Maybe he'll
ull you out of his killfile? Keep kissing, McClod, let's find out.

Poor Eric. He thinks just because the preceding is what motivates him
that it must be what everyone else does.

I don't think it's working, Freddy, it appears that Rand still has you
in his killfile.

Eric


--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn

"Eric Chomko" wrote:

:
:Fred J. McCall wrote:
: "Eric Chomko" wrote:
:
: :
: :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : "Eric Chomko" wrote:
: :
: : :
: : :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : : "Eric Chomko" wrote:
: : :
: : : :
: : : :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : : : "Eric Chomko" wrote:
: : : :
: : : : :
: : : : :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : : : : "Eric Chomko" wrote:
: : : : :
: : : : : :
: : : : : :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : : : : : "Eric Chomko" wrote:
: : : : : :
: : : : : : :
: : : : : : :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : : : : : : "Eric Chomko" wrote:
: : : : : : :
: : : : : : : :
: : : : : : : :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : : : : : : : "Eric Chomko" wrote:
: : : : : : : :
: : : : : : : : :You may have a point as no one wanted Mir as it was dying. Anyway, if
: : : : : : : : :ISS can be a prototype for industry without actually be used as a
: : : : : : : : :manufacturing plant, then it will still will have provided value.
: : : : : : : :
: : : : : : : : But in no way commensurate with its costs.
: : : : : : : :
: : : : : : : :Very difficult to say prior to any findings. As of today I agree, but
: : : : : : : :who knows about the future.
: : : : : : :
: : : : : : : One applies intelligence, past experience, and knowledge and bets the
: : : : : : : odds. It'll never return anything even close to commensurate with its
: : : : : : : costs.
: : : : : : :
: : : : : : :Sounds like the US War Machine(TM).
: : : : : :
: : : : : : Easy for you to say ... thanks to that war machine providing you the
: : : : : : right.
: : : : : :
: : : : : :The right of what McClod?
: : : : :
: : : : : That whole 'free speech and expression' thing that you so stupidly
: : : : : abuse.
: : : : :
: : : : :So we're in Iraq to preserve freedom of speech in America?
: : : :
: : : : I said that where? If you want to make up both sides of the
: : : : conversation, Eric, stop putting my name in there.
: : : :
: : : : :First you
: : : : :correctly say it is about economics and then you trot out this tripe.
: : : :
: : : : Poor, simple minded Eric. Can't count past one. Take off your shoes
: : : : next time, El Chimpo.
: : : :
: : : :And unzip your fly when you count to 11.
: : :
: : : Now you want to unzip my fly?
: : :
: : :Why did the pollock walk around with his fly unzipped?
: : :
: : :In case he wanted to count to 11.
: :
: : Pollack jokes? What next, Eric? Racial humour?
: :
: :A scotsman with a kilt on walks into a bar...
:
: And immediately has to rebuff El Chimpo....
:
:No, that's not how it goes. The scotsman walks over to the piano to
:complain about the monkey that belongs to the piano player...

At which point the piano player turns to the monkey and says, "Eric,
stop that!"

: : : How many times do I have to tell you
: : : that you're not my type, El Chimpo. I like to stay within the human
: : : species, you see.
: : :
: : :And yes, you prefer a different type of man.I get it...
: :
: : No, you don't. No means no, Eric.
: :
: :I'll leave all the Mark Folery to you.
:
: Then stop trying.
:
:Trying what, McClod?

Trying to get some man to deFoleyate you, of course.

: : : : :Is this some sort of Orwellian "doublethink" on your part, McClod? Are
: : : : :you so brainwashed and learned at the same time you can't separate your
: : : : :beliefs with rational thought?
: : : :
: : : : Are you so stupid and ignorant that you can't recognize that reality
: : : : isn't single cause or single threaded?
: : : :
: : : :So now your beliefs are reality? What ever you say, Herr Himmler...
: : :
: : : No, El Chimpo, but REALITY is reality and your idiocy doesn't change
: : : it and your being simple doesn't make it simple.
: : :
: : :I have changed reality many times. You should see some of my remodeling
: : rojects.
: :
: : And this is your idea of 'reality'. Yeah, of course. Whatever you
: : say...
: :
: :I have before and after pictures to prove it. Whatsmatter McClod,
: :feeling apathetic about your ability to effect a change in things?
:
: Poor Eric. The limit of his reach to affect reality is 'remodel'.
:
: What a pathetic loser!
:
:Saves a lot of money when you do it yourself.

My time is worth more to me than that.

:Have you ever remodeled a
:house, McClod?

Define 'remodeled', El Chimpo. I've painted them, done carpeting and
paneling. How much does it take before you call it 'remodeling.

Of course, if you get away from 'houses' just a bit, I've also built a
pool hall and bowling alley (including several of the lanes).

:Or do you just make a habit out of ****ing off the
:contractors?

Let me understand this 'logic' of yours. If I *don't* do the work
myself, that somehow ****es off the contractors?

:I bet you look down at blue collar workers don't you,
:McClod?

Avoid Vegas, El Chimpo. All your 'bets' seem to be losers.

:
: : : : : :You already said that wars are based in
: : : : : :economics.
: : : : :
: : : : : Yep.
: : : : :
: : : : : :So what economic implication is their to that "right" you're
: : : : : :talking about?
: : : : :
: : : : : You really are stupid enough to have to ask this question? Well, I
: : : : : guess I shouldn't be too surprised.
: : : : :
: : : : :No McClod, spell it out. How does getting cheaper oil going to preserve
: : : : :freedom of speech? Make the connection.
: : : :
: : : : Try sticking to what I say, El Chimpo. You are REALLY pathetic at
: : : : interpreting.
: : : :
: : : :No, you're lost and are backpeddling as fast as you can.
: : :
: : : In other words, you can't read and want to avoid the issue.
: : :
: : :You are the one avoiding. Is it your handlers, McClod?
: :
: : You just go ahead and carry on your stupid dialog with yourself, El
: : Chimpo.
: :
: :I am you and you are me, I'm the egg man...
:
: No, you're just the egg.
:
oes that make you a chicken? (You're so easy!)

You really need to stop imagining yourself up my backside, El Chimpo.
No means no.

: : : : : :Face it, the troops are low paid mercenaries fighting an
: : : : : :economic war.
: : : : :
: : : : : I prefer to stick to 'facing' reality. I'll leave the idiotic bigoted
: : : : : fantasies to you and your ilk.
: : : : :
: : : : :My ilk? You admit that the war is economic, hell ALL of them are. And
: : : : :now when confronted with that fact you wrap yourself up in the flag?!
: : : : :Reality check, here. Get one!
: : : :
: : : : Any reality check from you would be sure to bounce, Eric. Nothing in
: : : : your account to cover it.
: : : :
: : : :Why fight wars, McClod?
: : :
: : : Why not, El Chimpo?
: : :
: : :Because they don't solve anything.
: :
: : Really? Do be sure and tell Hitler, Tojo, and Mussolini all about
: : that.
: :
: :Tell me about Korea, Vietnam and Iraq.
:
: Why? I already proved your original statement was idiotically false
: by citing numerous obvious counter-examples.
:
:The point is that you can't prove that the Korea, Vietnam or Iraq wars
:solved a damn thing.

Nor do I need to. You stated that wars don't solve anything; a
universal statement. I cited numerous counter-examples. You
statement is therefore disproved.

Nowhere did I state that all wars solve something, so I have no need
to show that.

The preceding is called 'logic', El Chimpo. Try learning something
for a change.

:
: Logic course - take one.
:
:I have taken several actually.

Given the immediately preceding, you do not appear to have learned
anything in them.

id you know that logic courses are part
f the philosophy cirriculum?

Did you know that only SOME logic courses are part of the philosophy
curriculum (note correct spelling - time to learn, El Chimpo) and
others are not? Another universal statement on your part that simple
doesn't hold up.

: : : : : : : :Was Skylab also a waste of money?
: : : : : : :
: : : : : : : What was the ROI?
: : : : : : :
: : : : : : :First US space station.
: : : : : :
: : : : : : I know WHAT it was, you stupid git. Do you not know what ROI means?
: : : : : :
: : : : : :Return On Investment, the fancy accounting term for profit.
: : : : :
: : : : : ROI and 'profit' are not the same thing. Now answer the question.
: : : : :
: : : : :Okay, what exactly is the difference?
: : : :
: : : : You should have tried looking them up, Eric. You could have avoided
: : : : looking as stupid as you do now.
: : : :
: : : : Profit is 'net gain'. It's measured in monetary units. ROI is a
: : : : unitless number indicating percentage return.
: : : :
: : : :"Percentage return"? Expressed in what? Monetary units.
: : :
: : : Wrong. Expressed as a PERCENTAGE. No units, simpleton.
: : :
: : :It can be both! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_on_investment
: :
: : No, it can't "be both", no matter how Wikipedia might misdefine
: : things. And even THEY don't agree with you. Try reading the first
: : couple of sentences.
: :
: :Look he http://www.valuebasedmanagement.net/methods_roi.html
: :
: :It states that ROI is a ratio. Sure a ratio can be expressed as a
: ercentage but it doesn't have to be.
:
: But what it isn't expressed as is 'dollars', which is what you've been
: insisting.
:
:But it can be!

No, it cannot be!

:What do you think the numbers are that are being
:compared? Dollars!

And when you divide dollars by dollars (the ratio) you do *NOT* get
dollars. You get a unitless number. The units cancel out. Something
else they should have taught you in school.

: But what it isn't is 'profit', which is what you've been insisting.
:
:Not exactly profit, but very similar. Freddy, can profit be expressed
:as a percentage?
:
: Hint - any 'ratio' is easily expressed as a percentage, which is
: typically done in order to get somewhat more wieldy numbers.
:
:But take that precentage and see if you get back the actual dollar
:numbers.

Given some other numbers, sure you can. But so what?

: : : :Hey, maybe,
: : : :just maybe, they are interchangable...
: : :
: : : But then again, maybe they aren't. And sure enough, they aren't.
: : :
: : : :Think balance sheet, McClod. '
: : :
: : : Why?
: : :
: : :Because ROI shows up on them.
: :
: : Nope.
: :
: :It is a ratio: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_on_investment
:
: That's nice. It still doesn't show up on balance sheets, although one
: can find the pieces there.
:
:Profit/Loss statement.

ROI does not show up on the profit/loss statement. Take an accounting
course.

: : : :Are
: : : :you going to use precentages or monetary units?
: : :
: : : Depends on what I'm looking at and why, El Chimpo. Why do you think
: : : the concept of ROI exists?
: : :
: : :On a balance sheet. You are wrong and know it. Sure ROI can be a
: : ercentage and usually is, but I stated accounting term. You're
: : :wrong...
: :
: : Gee, don't tell my accounting professor. Of course, once he hears
: : what you have to say he probably wouldn't be able to stop laughing.
: :
: : :
: : : id I say accounting term?
: : :
: : : No, you ignorantly misdefined ROI trying to prove that you knew what
: : : it meant.
: : :
: : :Look above.
: :
: : Ok. You're still wrong. Now what?
: :
: :Ratio is right. Percentage is too limited. Reread and learn this time.
:
: Either is correct. Take a course or two.
:
:Freddy, if I gave you an ROI percentage alone could you create the
riginal ratio? Now, tell me how either is correct.

If I give you a ratio you can't create the original numbers, either.
ROI doesn't contain the original numbers, Eric.

:Here is a great lesson for you. Don't get mad and try and change the
:argument. Take the fact that you learned something here as the real
:value and allow that be adequate to wipe away the fact that you were
:wrong, which really is no big deal!

Except I'm not wrong; you are. Therefore what I learned is that you
are once again bleating incorrect things.

: : : You didn't and now you're arguing that it doesn't mean what it means
: : : because what it means doesn't suit your stupid remarks.
: : :
: : :
: : :Sure I did.
: :
: : Sure you did.
: :
: : : :What is stupid is for you to argue that percentage of an ROI can't be
: : : :converted into $.
: : :
: : : There's no such thing as "percentage of an ROI". ROI ***IS*** a
: : : percentage, you ignorant git.
: : :
: : :
: : :Nope! Read the wiki article.
: :
: : I'd suggest YOU read it. 'Return' can refer to an amount of money.
: : 'Return On Investment' is a RATIO.
: :
: :
: :A ratio isn't the same thing as a percentage.
:
: Any ratio can be expressed as a percentage and vice versa.
:
:Vice-versa? If I say 50%, do you if that means 1/2, 3/6 or
:24,000/48,000 and those numbers are meaningful, so you must KNOW at
:least one!

Those numbers are no more meaningful than any others and you can
express it however you want. In general, if talking about ROI it
would be expressed in the reduced form if you're not going to use a
percentage.

:
: What a ratio is NOT is expressed as 'dollars', which is what you've
: insisted.
:
:Okay, then what do the numbers represent? And do recall, Fred, that I
:used the word 'accounting' at the beginning of this thread.

I don't care what word you used, Eric. You are once again on your
ass.

See, for example, page 560-561 of _Financial Accounting_ by Schattke &
Jensen.

: : "This article or section is in need of attention from an expert on the
: : subject. Please help recruit one, or improve this page yourself if
: : you can. See discussion page for details."
: :
: :Go ahead. Claim that ROI is a percentage and watch how quickly you get
: :corrected.
:
: Poor Eric. Sadly he really is exactly this stupid...
:
:Gi ahead, change the wiki article and let's see what happens.

They can't afford my rates, either.

: : : :Again, balance sheet.
: : :
: : : Again, ROI.
: : :
: : :
: : :Wrong, McClod.
: :
: : Go read with understanding, dumbass.
: :
: : : :How can you balance a percentage, McClod?
: : :
: : : Why do I need to, El Chimpo?
: : :
: : :
: : :Because when all is said and done ROI is what drops out of the plus
: : :side if you are making money.
: :
: : Nope. Take a basic accounting course, dumbass.
: :
: : : What's sad is that you really are this stupid.
: : :
: : : : To see the difference, assume that you invest a million dollars in a
: : : : company and I invest ten dollars. Suppose we each earn the same
: : : : amount in profit out of our investment. Is our ROI the same?
: : : :
: : : :No. x/10 vs. x/1,000,000, where x is the profit. Do the math, you still
: : : :get x.
: : :
: : : But the ROI is different. Which part of that is it that you simply
: : : can't comprehend?
: : :
: : : Now answer the question, WHAT WAS THE ROI ON SKYLAB?
: : :
: : : You're going to incredible lengths to expose your ignorance and then
: : : try to cover it up, all the while avoiding a simple answer that would
: : : satisfy your original question if only you were smart enough to
: : : understand and answer it.
: : :
: : :Read the wiki article. Will you then admit that as an accounting term
: : :ROI MUST be a dollar amout?
: :
: : No, because that would be wrong.
: :
: :Ratio is correct. I see that you backed away from your percentage
: :claim. No admission of being wrong, simply backed away. That is a flaw,
: :Freddy...
:
: Take some elementary school math, El Chimpo.
:
:Teaching my daughter some right now, McClod.

Poor unfortunate girl. I hope there's someone around to correct all
the things she's undoubtedly mislearning from you.

Hint: Percentage is a ratio scaled such that the bottom number of the
ratio is '100'.

: : Read it yourself. Pay particular attention to the difference between
: : 'Return' and 'Return On Investment'. Also note that stuff at the top
: : indicating that the folks trying to manage the article recognize that
: : they don't know what they're talking about.
: :
: :Ratio not precentage. They are different.
:
: Oh? And what would that difference be?
:
:Again if the two numbers you are comparing have meaning elsewhere (like
n a profit/loss statement) and they usually do, the percentage alone
:won't help you get those numbers, unless you know at least one of them.

And neither will the ratio, since they're generally expressed in
reduced form. Otherwise there'd be no point to ROI - you could just
use the original numbers used to derive it.

:It is a many-to-one mapping (percentage) vs. a one-to-many mapping
ratio). You are trying to equate the two, necessarily. You can't

Nope. 'Percentage' is just one particular form of a ratio. For
example, 75% is, of course 75/100. Reduce the ratio and you get 3/4.
It's all the same thing.

:Here's an example I think you can appreciate. You give me 500 dollars
:from a client and I give your client $2 and tell him that he has a 40%
:ROI on a particular investment. Unless your client KNEW about the $500
:vs. $5, he'd have know way of knowing that I ripped him off.

Yes, Eric, if you LIE you can say pretty much anything. That doesn't
prove anything, of course, except that you're a liar.

: : : : :Seems like the difference between
: : : : :'software engineer' and 'computer programmer'.
: : : :
: : : : I can't say I'm surprised that you don't know the difference between
: : : : the two. It is, after all, just one more bit of reality that seems to
: : : : have escaped your knowledge.
: : : :
: : : o explain the difference.
: : :
: : : You want lessons, send a check.
: : :
: : :
: : :You first.
: :
: : But nobody is asking you to 'explain' anything because everyone knows
: : you're a ****ing idiot, Eric.
: :
: :Temper, temper, McClod...
:
: Poor El Chimpo. He actually thinks he matters enough for someone to
: feel some emotion other than amusement over the idiocy he spews...
:
:
:You're so wrapped with being right it is silly. Your rightousness has
:spilled over into the self-rightousness realm.

You just keep hunting, El Chimpo. Whatever you need to believe to get
yourself through the day.

I'll simply note that you're so wrapped up with being right WHEN YOU
ARE WRONG that you resort to silly remarks like the preceding rather
than just admit you don't know anything about accounting *or* ROI.

: : : :In no way does one imply a better skill than
: : : :the other, necessarily.
: : :
: : : Poor El Chimpo. Still can't read. Still an ignorant git.
: : :
: : : : :Skylab gave us more time in space and allowed us to get a glimpse of
: : : : :what time in space would be like. It was what it was. Not great but not
: : : : :a total waste either.
: : : :
: : : : But you still haven't determined if it was "a waste of money".
: : : :
: : : :I'd say no.
: : :
: : : So what was the ROI? What was the opportunity cost?
: : :
: : : You can't just reach up your ass for an answer and expect people to
: : : accept it, El Chimpo.
: : :
: : :
: : :Here you provide all that for the Viking missions and I'll respond in
: : :kind to the Skylab mission. If you can't do Viking why should I be
: : :asked to do Skylab? Deal?
: :
: : Why would I want to do Viking? I haven't made any claims or asked any
: : questions.
: :
: :You should do it for Viking (as an example) because you expect me to do
: :the same for Skylab. Your umwillingness to do what you ask of me is
: :suspect beyond the scope of your question.
:
: You asked me a question, Eric. I asked you a question back so as to
: demonstrate the answer to your question.
:
:
:IOW, punt...

In other words, you didn't understand the question.

: So what does Viking have to do with any of that, again?
:
:
:An example of what you are looking for from me doing an ROI on Skylab.

You asked if Skylab was 'worth it'. The *ONLY* way to know that is to
compare costs to benefits. You decline to do so.

:It is called, if you want me to spin my wheels with a vague exercise,
:then it is within my right to ask you for an example.

Forgive me for actually trying to teach you something elementary,
Eric. I should have known (and did) that you wouldn't get it.

: : You're the one making assertions. Back them up or look just as stupid
: : as, well, as you are, actually.
: :
: :Admit you're a lazy ass that expects me to do something you yourself
: :would not do.
:
: No, El Chimpo. You're doing just exactly what I expect you to.
:
: snicker
:
:No, you expected me to come up with a bunch of **** that you would
:claim as wrong, and then ask me to do it over again. I didn't bite...
:
:snicker

Right on cue. Poor El Chimpo...

--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson

"Eric Chomko" wrote:

:
:Fred J. McCall wrote:
: "Eric Chomko" wrote:
:
: :
: :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : "Eric Chomko" wrote:
: :
: : :
: : :Rand Simberg wrote:
: : : On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:43:40 -0500, in a place far, far away, John Doe
: : : made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as
: : : to indicate that:
: : :
: : : Jeff Findley wrote:
: : : I'm wondering if your questions stem from a lack of understanding of orbital
: : : mechanics or from a lack of understanding high school geometry.
: : :
: : : I was thinking in terms of orbital plane. Consider launch windows are
: : : small for a 51° orbit from KSC, but much longer for 28°. So I was just
: : : wondering if at a lower orbital plane, the spacecraft would obscure one
: : : particular location longer.
: : :
: : : In other words, you're babbling, and have no idea what you're talking
: : : about.
: : :
: : :Maybe, but a helpful person explains why. A jerk answers just as you
: : :did.
: :
: : And an ignorant idiot whines just as you are now when people won't
: : accept their nonsensical questions and positions as 'just as valuable'
: : as those coming from people who know something.
: :
: :Would you repeat that, but in English this time and can you make some
: :sense?
:
: Reading - try to learn how, Eric.
:
: :I wonder if your ass kissing of Rand has had any effect? Maybe he'll
: ull you out of his killfile? Keep kissing, McClod, let's find out.
:
: Poor Eric. He thinks just because the preceding is what motivates him
: that it must be what everyone else does.
:
:I don't think it's working, Freddy, it appears that Rand still has you
:in his killfile.

But I don't care, El Chimpo. That's the difference between us.

--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn