Bins steaming up

Im a beginner and have been lurking here for ages. I recently bought some
cheap 7x50's, a star chart (which I find difficult to use) and some
astronomy mags with charts in them and have been trying to learn my way
around.

I find I am constantly having to wipe the eye pieces of my bins - when I
hold them to my eyes on a cold night they steam up after a few seconds. Is
it the fact that my bins are 'cheap' or is there a general issue - ive tried
leaving them out in the shed for half an hour before I go out but that
possibly makes it worse.

Any recommendations?

PS my neighbours must have heard me shout 'WOW' when I viewed pleaides for
the first time the other night!

AB

No doubt that the guys here will recommend that you buy equipment and
soon you will be an astronomer just like they are,the great consumerism
of our era means you can buy the title of 'astronomer' without ever
having to deal with planetary motions,only the effort to align your
equipment and come up to speed with calendrically based star charts.

If you ever go outside at dawn when you do not need a telescope and try
to put the motion of the Earth into heliocentric perspective as it
swings out of its own orbital shadow,you may experience Western
Copernican/Keplerian astronomy as it once existed and this is more
powerful than any image you see through your telescope.

Before the convenience of what you do the great thinking of Western
astronomy lies in ruins but will someday rise again among people with
the dignity and the wisdom to appreciate its value and not place it in
hardware,regarless of how useful this is.

Good luck to you.

this is more
powerful than any image you see through your telescope.

Thanks for your reply but the whole point of my post is that my bins keep
steaming up so how could I ever know!

I just want to spend a bit of time looking at stars (and I want to be able
to look good infront of my kids and their friends in a few years time, if
i'm honest by naming a few of the 'patterns' in the sky) - i'm not really
interested in 'thinking' about it too much.

To AB

I respect your honesty on this matter and indeed you will look good in
front of your kids.There is even a better way to impress yuor kids and
your neighbors.

If you look out tonight you will see that the planet Mars,Presently the
motion of Mars appears to be moving backwars against the stellar
background just like Jupiter and Saturn are in this simulation -

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ima...2000_tezel.gif

Using the analogy of a faster car on a roundabout overtaking slower
cars on an outer lane,point out that the same thing causes Mars to
appear to move backwards although it does not,it is just the faster
Earth is taking an inner orbital circuit.

You do not need to jump to the Sun to account for the
forward-backward-forward motion no more than you need to jump to the
center of the traffic roundabout to resolve why the slower cars appear
to go backwards.In this respect you are explaining heliocentricity like
Copernicus did and I assure you that your kids will be impressed -


The Symmetry of the Universe


"32 In this arrangement, therefore, we discover a marvelous symmetry

of the universe, and an established harmonious linkage between the
motion of the spheres and their size, such as can be found in no other
way. For this permits a not inattentive student to perceive why the
forward and backward arcs appear greater in Jupiter than in Saturn and
smaller than in Mars, and on the other hand greater in Venus than in
Mercury. This reversal in direction appears more frequently in Saturn
than in Jupiter, and also more rarely in Mars and Venus than in
Mercury. Moreover, when Saturn, Jupiter, and Mars rise at sunset, they
are nearer to the earth than when they set in the evening or appear at
a later hour. But Mars in particular, when it shines all night, seems
to equal Jupiter in size, being distinguished only by its reddish
color. Yet in the other configurations it is found barely among the
stars of the second magnitude, being recognized by those who track it
with assiduous observations. All these phenomena proceed from the same
cause, which is in the earth's motion.


Yet none of these phenomena appears in the fixed stars. This
proves their immense height, which makes even the sphere of the annual
motion, or its reflection, vanish from before our eyes." Copernicus

You will know more than Newton who got the resolution for retrogrades
completely wrong -

"For to the earth they appear sometimes direct, sometimes stationary,
nay, and sometimes retrograde. But from the sun they are always seen
direct.." Newton

In any case,enjoy astronomy at whatever level that you find comfortable
with .

To AB

The one thing that would cause difficulties with the roundabout
analogy writ large to the scale of orbital motion of the Earth and Mars
is to cut the motion of Mars loose from the axial rotation of the Earth
and its observed passage along with the celestial sphere.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ima...2000_tezel.gif

The simulation of the apparent forward-backword-forward motion of
Jupiter and Saturn is such as if axial rotation and the celestial
sphere does not exist,you are simply looking at planetary motions from
the perspective of orbital motion and orbital motion alone.

This is very,very different than what these cataloguers believe yet you
have the words of Copernicus before you and should you need Galileo's
explanation then here it is -

"[Here Salviati explains Jupiter's motion, then follows with:]


Now what is said here of Jupiter is to be understood of Saturn and Mars

also. In Saturn these retrogressions are somewhat more frequent than in

Jupiter, because its motion is slower than Jupiter's, so that the Earth

overtakes it in a shorter time. In Mars they are rarer, its motion
being faster than that of Jupiter, so that the Earth spends more time
in catching up with it. Next, as to Venus and Mercury, whose circles
are included within that of the Earth, stoppings and retrograde motions



appear in them also, due not to any motion that really exists in them,
but to the annual motion of the Earth. This is acutely demonstrated by
Copernicus . . . You see, gentlemen, with what ease and simplicity the
annual motion --
if made by the Earth -- lends itself to supplying reasons for the
apparent anomalies which are observed in the movements of the five
planets. . . . It removes them all and reduces these movements to
equable and regular motions; and it was Nicholas Copernicus who first
clarified for us the reasons for this marvelous effect." 1632, Dialogue

Concerning the Two Chief World Systems

All very interesting but will learning all of this stop his binoculars
steaming up?

Andy Grove wrote:
All very interesting but will learning all of this stop his binoculars
steaming up?

I really think it might work. He couldn't possibly look through his bins
at the same time as explaining all that to his children.

--
Holly, in France
Holiday Home in Dordogne
http://la-plaine.chez.tiscali.fr/

This is how Newton resolved retrogrades which otherwise is easy to
understand and enjoyable

"For to the earth they appear sometimes direct, sometimes stationary,
nay, and sometimes retrograde. But from the sun they are always seen
direct.." Newton

No doubt that many like AB would approach this forum with good faith
and the assumption that you are legitimate astronomers who inherited
the Copernican insight and that you would present it as a perfectly
understandable and enjoyable insight that teenagers would love.

The fact is that planetary heliocentric motions are seen direct from
the Earth's orbital motion and this dawning realisation is still as
spectacular today as it was for Kepler and Galileo irrespective of the
foolish Newtonian resolution.Knowing why Mars is presently appearing to
move backwards as plotted on a different day against the stellar
background is a wonderful way to acknowledge that our planet is
overtaking the slower orbital motion of Mars which is on an outer
heliocentric circuit.

Pity you cannot savor the original Copernican solution for apparent
retrogrades.

Tell me what you see -

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ima...2000_tezel.gif

"AB" wrote in message
news
Im a beginner and have been lurking here for ages. I recently bought some
cheap 7x50's, a star chart (which I find difficult to use) and some
astronomy mags with charts in them and have been trying to learn my way
around.

I find I am constantly having to wipe the eye pieces of my bins - when I
hold them to my eyes on a cold night they steam up after a few seconds.
Is it the fact that my bins are 'cheap' or is there a general issue - ive
tried leaving them out in the shed for half an hour before I go out but
that possibly makes it worse.

Any recommendations?

PS my neighbours must have heard me shout 'WOW' when I viewed pleaides for
the first time the other night!

I find that mine do that too... My binoculars steaming up, that is. Not my
neighbours wondering what is happening!

This probably doesn't help but as far as I can tell, it is just because the
lenses are cold and my face is warm. Warming up you binos will probably
still cause fogging as the cold air hits the warm lens.
A pair with very good eye relief might be an answer but I will probably
continue to use my cheapy ones for now and just wait until icicles start to
form on my nose.

Cheers,
Jim