Two day/night cycles and two rotations

The celestial sphere enthusiasts have conjured up this notion that there are two distinct rotations,one to the Sun which they call the solar day and one to the stars which they call the sidereal day thereby they are being both fundamentalist and radical at the same time.

The appearance of the Sun followed by the stars constitute one rotation and therefore one day that all experience but there is also a second day - the familiar polar day or day/night cycle. It takes two types of rotation to explain the daily and polar cycles as opposed to the 'solar vs sidereal' fiction.

http://eoimages.gsfc.nasa.gov/images...008265_lrg.jpg


It is one of those things which can't be reduced any further in its simplicity as long as observers acknowledge that a sunrise is due to a rotating Earth, in the case of polar sunrise a rotation as a secondary function of the planet's motion through space and around the Sun.

The North and South poles let the genuine observer know that if daily rotation is subtracted, the entire planet turns once to the central Sun and parallel with its orbital motion and plane.

Why anyone would remain dithering around trying to fit a rotating celestial sphere into the Earth's 24 hour system and Lat/Long system when there are two separate day/night cycles to consider is dismaying to say the least.

I should probably feel sympathy for you, Gerald; it isn't your fault that you're as mad as a bucket of frogs, but I must admit that I can't because you are just so hilarious.

On Friday, April 22, 2016 at 8:35:33 PM UTC+1, wrote:
I should probably feel sympathy for you, Gerald; it isn't your fault that you're as mad as a bucket of frogs, but I must admit that I can't because you are just so hilarious.

As polar day transitions to polar night at the South pole where the Sun will be absent from view for the next 5 months until the September Equinox, people might want to drop the fictional nonsense of the solar/sidereal day and replace it with the planet's actual two day/night cycles.

Celestial sphere astronomy is a valid pursuit if all you need to do is identify objects or predict events within the calendar framework but it becomes catastrophically disruptive when it is used to invoke daily and orbital dynamics and its effects on experiences and terrestrial sciences.

This is not a science issue, this is an intelligence issue of the first order as there is nowhere else to go for human involvement in science and astronomy once a line is crossed.

On Friday, April 22, 2016 at 1:10:45 PM UTC-6, oriel36 wrote:

Why anyone would remain dithering around trying to fit a rotating celestial sphere into the Earth's 24 hour system and Lat/Long system when there are two separate day/night cycles to consider is dismaying to say the least.

The celestial sphere doesn't rotate. It remains motionless. The Earth rotates
within the celestial sphere once every 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 4 seconds.

And the Earth revolves around the Sun once a year, so the apparent position of
the Sun on the celestial sphere changes by just under a degree a day.

So it takes the Earth 24 hours to catch up with the Sun even though it only
takes it 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 4 seconds to catch up with Sirius.

John Savard

On Friday, April 22, 2016 at 1:54:23 PM UTC-6, oriel36 wrote:
and replace it with the planet's actual two day/night cycles.

The planet has two *motions* - a rotation in 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 4
seconds, and an orbit around the Sun once a year.

At the North and South poles, the Sun is below the horizon for half the year,
and above it for the other half, because of the Earth's orbit.

In temperate regions and the Equator, a day/night cycle of 24 hours is
experienced - because the Earth's orbital motion means that the Earth has to
rotate by about 361 degrees, not 360 degrees, to catch up with the changed
apparent position of the Sun in the heavens each day.

John Savard

A day is simply the combined daylight/darkness cycle in response to a surface rotation and the planet has two distinct cycles and rotations. It is a wonderful spectacle beloved of all people and especially at dawn and twilight where the appearance of the stars replaces the presence of the Sun in view.

http://www.usap.gov/videoclipsandmaps/spwebcam.cfm

Even though it has been continuous twilight since the March Equinox, only a month later have the stars come into view as polar night descends as the South pole continues to turn away from the central Sun.

A mind that forces itself to believe that rotation to the Sun and rotation to the stars are two distinct rotations is in deep trouble and represents a type of individual who falls between boyhood and adulthood. The fact that it is taught through the education system is horrifying by virtue that the price is having to ignore the polar day and the 24 hour day as the two principle cycles which combine to create the seasons.

On Friday, April 22, 2016 at 10:27:49 PM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:

A day is simply the combined daylight/darkness cycle in response to a surface rotation and the planet has two distinct cycles and rotations.

Are you trying to say that there is only a single day a year at each pole?

This is too much to swallow, even for you...

On Saturday, April 23, 2016 at 6:46:58 AM UTC+1, palsing wrote:
On Friday, April 22, 2016 at 10:27:49 PM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:

A day is simply the combined daylight/darkness cycle in response to a surface rotation and the planet has two distinct cycles and rotations.

Are you trying to say that there is only a single day a year at each pole?

This is too much to swallow, even for you...

At the North and South poles the Sun comes into view at the Equinox ,stays in view for 6 months and then disappears at the opposite Equinox when the stars appear. It is a complete day whether it is called the polar day/night cycle or the orbital day/night cycle.

Celestial sphere enthusiasts like yourself believe there is a dichotomy between rotation to the Sun and rotation to the stars thereby lose the ability to handle even the polar day/night cycle as a separate event. You were fond of saying everyone recognize rotation to the Sun as a day but now there are two types of day/night cycles to consider and specifically where the Sun comes into view once a year at either the North or South poles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okw6Mu3mxdM

The date will tell the interested person everything as that once in a year dawn event can now be observed.

Maybe you have a mental block that prevents you from watching the Sun coming into view at dawn and attaching a surface rotation to the cause of that event but it is no less different at the North and South poles where another surface rotation as a secondary function of the Earth's orbital motion creates the Equinox spectacle you see above.

The solar/sidereal day is a fiction created out of a rotating celestial sphere -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYy0EQBnqHI

On Fri, 22 Apr 2016 22:46:55 -0700 (PDT), palsing wrote:

On Friday, April 22, 2016 at 10:27:49 PM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:

A day is simply the combined daylight/darkness cycle in response to a surface rotation and the planet has two distinct cycles and rotations.

Are you trying to say that there is only a single day a year at each pole?

This is too much to swallow, even for you...

The calendar doesn't advance until the next sunrise - everyone knows
that. . . everyone except we "haters of 'genuine' astronomy", we who
bear the mark of the celestial sphere cult. ;-)

(Sorry, couldn't resist... My judgement is under the influence of
post-surgical meds )


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Email address is a Spam trap.

On Saturday, April 23, 2016 at 1:46:04 PM UTC+1, Bill wrote:
On Fri, 22 Apr 2016 22:46:55 -0700 (PDT), palsing wrote:

On Friday, April 22, 2016 at 10:27:49 PM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:

A day is simply the combined daylight/darkness cycle in response to a surface rotation and the planet has two distinct cycles and rotations.

Are you trying to say that there is only a single day a year at each pole?

This is too much to swallow, even for you...

The calendar doesn't advance until the next sunrise - everyone knows
that. . . everyone except we "haters of 'genuine' astronomy", we who
bear the mark of the celestial sphere cult. ;-)

(Sorry, couldn't resist... My judgement is under the influence of
post-surgical meds )


--
Email address is a Spam trap.

It is quite a thing to see surgeons put so much care and effort into their profession and I am thankful to them for those times when people I care about came under the influence of their skill - it is one of the wonders of living in this era.

Then I come here and the sheer waste of 21st century imaging and tools including the ability to discriminate a polar dawn at the dawn which occurs each and every day as the Sun comes into view as the Earth turns once each 24 hours.

Subtracting daily rotation and the entire planet turns once to the Sun coincident with its orbital period where the North and South poles alone demonstrating the single sunrise and sunset at the Equinoxes indicative of a single orbital/polar day. Where it combines with the daily rotational cycle we have the seasons.

I admire surgeons,after all, they put my spine back together with rods and pins allowing me to walk but people here are different and take no pride in what 21st century tools can do -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okw6Mu3mxdM