Two day/night cycles and two rotations

This insight is particular to this era and no other due to the imaging involved. Like all day/night cycles and the terms of a day (noon,twilight,sunrise,ect) there is a surface rotation to the Sun behind the dual day/night cycles so whether people choose to stick with a meaningless and hapless attempt to impose celestial sphere on the Earths motions or recognize the dual day/night cycles to explain the seasons representing dual rotations will say a lot for this society.

People have one Earth and one brain to work things out and it is a God given gift to exercise intelligence when they encounter imaging -

http://www.usap.gov/videoclipsandmaps/spwebcam.cfm

If anyone can explain a polar sunrise without a surface rotation then good luck to them however there is a rotation arising directly from the Earth's orbital motion behind that astronomical event.

Couldn't bear to listen anymore to celestial sphere enthusiasts who can't manage to correlate one rotation with one day/night cycle every 24 hours let alone the polar day/night cycle rotation.

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 10:21:08 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 26, 2016 at 10:10:45 AM UTC-6, Mark Storkamp wrote:

And the sun stands still in the sky for those 6 months? There is one
summer solstice, but one noon? Surely you're joking!

The Sun goes round and round, describing a circle in the sky every 24 hours.

But which part of that circle is "noon"? The Sun is found in different
directions, but one direction is as good as any other.

It reaches its highest point once - on the Summer Solstice. So that could be
called the one "noon" in the year, if one thinks that way.

If you are at the north pole, everywhere you look is south. My
preference would be to call it noon when the sun crosses the prime
meridian.

One you are away from the north pole, there is only one direction that
is south and noon is when the sun crosses your meridian and appears
due south of you.

A similar definition works for the south pole.

--
Remove del for email

http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/...mericas250.jpg

As the Earth moves through space and around the Sun, the North and South poles are seen to turn in a circle equivalent to the Arctic/Antarctic circles and parallel with the orbital plane -

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...precession.svg

The actual image of the Earth from space above is roughly the orbital position the Earth is at presently as the North and South poles are still moving to polar noon and polar midnight positions while the central Sun is taken as a given.

The North and South poles are simply points on the Earth surface which do not rotate as part of diurnal rotation but act as windows into the Earth orbital surface rotation, a rotation that causes the Sun to come into view for the first time at the Equinox at the North and South pole after being absent for 6 months and depending where the Earth is in its orbit in March or September.

On Tuesday, April 26, 2016 at 8:46:44 PM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:

As the Earth moves through space and around the Sun, the North and South poles are seen to turn in a circle equivalent to the Arctic/Antarctic circles and parallel with the orbital plane

Keep in mind that this 'turning' is only apparent, and not real turning, indeed, the north pole of the Earth's axis ALWAYS points almost directly at Polaris (these days)... the poles APPARENTLY turn WRT the Sun... write this on the chalk board 1000 times so that you never forget it!

On Wednesday, April 27, 2016 at 4:57:47 AM UTC+1, palsing wrote:
On Tuesday, April 26, 2016 at 8:46:44 PM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:

As the Earth moves through space and around the Sun, the North and South poles are seen to turn in a circle equivalent to the Arctic/Antarctic circles and parallel with the orbital plane

Keep in mind that this 'turning' is only apparent, and not real turning, indeed, the north pole of the Earth's axis ALWAYS points almost directly at Polaris (these days)... the poles APPARENTLY turn WRT the Sun... write this on the chalk board 1000 times so that you never forget it!

The Sun coming into view this morning was due to a surface rotation and also the stars will later appear after sunset and that rotation is quite real as are its effects. The Sun comes into view once at the North and South Poles on the Equinox, it stays in view for 6 months until the opposite Equinox and then the stars appear for an extended period. The surface rotation behind this great cycle is as real as the daily rotational cycle and the North and South poles represent the two places on Earth which is isolated from the 24 hour day/night cycle and the orbital rotation reigns.

To explain the seasons from now on requires something quite new and different and follows the dynamics behind the planet's two distinct day/night cycles and that means our parent star takes center stage in determining the Earth's dual rotations, one daily and the other annual.

The transition to polar night is almost complete as the South pole turns in a circle and parallel to the orbital plane of the Earth towards polar midnight -

http://www.usap.gov/videoclipsandmaps/spwebcam.cfm

Nobody is going to explain the polar day/night cycle as anything other than by a rotation so familiarity rather than difficulty is the only obstacle.

In sci.astro.amateur message
, Tue, 26 Apr 2016 14:36:52, Barry Schwarz posted:

One you are away from the north pole, there is only one direction that
is south and noon is when the sun crosses your meridian and appears
due south of you.

Parochialist! Within the Polar Circles, there is still a daily noon,
even when the Sun does not appear. And over half[*] of the Earth, the
Sun is potentially visible in the North at noon.
[*] Just over half; but not always the same half, and ignoring hills.

--
(c) John Stockton, Surrey, UK. Turnpike v6.05 MIME.
Merlyn Web Site - FAQish topics, acronyms, & links.

There will always be those who distort and blur what most reasonable people now take for granted that the Sun appears once at the Equinox, remains in view for 6 months and then at the opposite Equinox goes out of sight for another 6 months. At the North and South poles this event can easily be called the polar day/night cycle however as the entire Earth turns parallel to the orbital plane and due entirely to the orbital motion of the Earth it can be called the orbital surface rotation and the orbital day/night cycle.

http://www.usap.gov/videoclipsandmaps/spwebcam.cfm

Where the dual cycles combine we call the seasons with Spring,Summer,Fall and Winter however, as there are dual surface rotations involved and two separate types of day/night cycles , a more technical viewpoint splitting the hemispheres , the Northern half experienced orbital sunrise (Equinox) over a month ago and is heading to orbital noon (June Solstice) in less than 8 weeks. A more gentler way to appreciate the orbital day/night cycle is that the trees answer solely to the orbital rotation as they wake up at the Equinox, so to speak, as their leaves come out in response to the effects of that day and go to sleep,again so to speak, after the Fall Equinox.

It is just another way of approaching the seasons where dual surface rotations combine and most people already are aware that they do exist ,at least they do now. The North and South poles are unique in providing a window into the orbital surface rotation as both represent opposite ends of the polar day/night cycle such as one experiences polar sunrise while simultaneous the other experiences polar sunset just like its daily rotational counterpart. Where it combines with daily rotation it becomes a hemispherical affair and therein lies great challenges.

The choice is clear as are those who support it, there will be those who wish to continue with a 'solar vs sidereal day' fiction which disrupts appreciation of the planets dual day/night cycles along with all its effects and there will be those who are getting a glimpse of the planet's polar day/night cycle as distinct from its 24 hour day/night cycle.

On Tuesday, April 26, 2016 at 6:21:10 PM UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
The Sun goes round and round, describing a circle in the sky every 24 hours.

Don't confuse Gerald with facts.

oriel36 wrote:
There will always be those who distort and blur what most reasonable
people now take for granted that the Sun appears once at the Equinox,
remains in view for 6 months and then at the opposite Equinox goes out of
sight for another 6 months. At the North and South poles this event can
easily be called the polar day/night cycle however as the entire Earth
turns parallel to the orbital plane and due entirely to the orbital
motion of the Earth it can be called the orbital surface rotation and the
orbital day/night cycle.

http://www.usap.gov/videoclipsandmaps/spwebcam.cfm

Where the dual cycles combine we call the seasons with Spring,Summer,Fall
and Winter however, as there are dual surface rotations involved and two
separate types of day/night cycles , a more technical viewpoint splitting
the hemispheres , the Northern half experienced orbital sunrise (Equinox)
over a month ago and is heading to orbital noon (June Solstice) in less
than 8 weeks. A more gentler way to appreciate the orbital day/night
cycle is that the trees answer solely to the orbital rotation as they
wake up at the Equinox, so to speak, as their leaves come out in response
to the effects of that day and go to sleep,again so to speak, after the Fall Equinox.

It is just another way of approaching the seasons where dual surface
rotations combine and most people already are aware that they do exist
,at least they do now. The North and South poles are unique in providing
a window into the orbital surface rotation as both represent opposite
ends of the polar day/night cycle such as one experiences polar sunrise
while simultaneous the other experiences polar sunset just like its daily
rotational counterpart. Where it combines with daily rotation it becomes
a hemispherical affair and therein lies great challenges.

The choice is clear as are those who support it, there will be those who
wish to continue with a 'solar vs sidereal day' fiction which disrupts
appreciation of the planets dual day/night cycles along with all its
effects and there will be those who are getting a glimpse of the planet's
polar day/night cycle as distinct from its 24 hour day/night cycle.


An LP record turns at 33 rpm whether you look at the centre or the edges.
The Earth turns at the same rate whether you are at the pole or the
equator. If you stand astride the south pole for 24 hours you will rotate
with the Earth and see the sun's glow just after sunset move 360 degrees
round the horizon. The sun will be below the horizon but you can still see
the
glow.
When the sun's glow is no longer available you will be able to see Sirius
as you rotate around with the pole once every sidereal day.

On Thursday, April 28, 2016 at 4:49:02 PM UTC+1, Mike Collins wrote:
oriel36 wrote:
There will always be those who distort and blur what most reasonable
people now take for granted that the Sun appears once at the Equinox,
remains in view for 6 months and then at the opposite Equinox goes out of
sight for another 6 months. At the North and South poles this event can
easily be called the polar day/night cycle however as the entire Earth
turns parallel to the orbital plane and due entirely to the orbital
motion of the Earth it can be called the orbital surface rotation and the
orbital day/night cycle.

http://www.usap.gov/videoclipsandmaps/spwebcam.cfm

Where the dual cycles combine we call the seasons with Spring,Summer,Fall
and Winter however, as there are dual surface rotations involved and two
separate types of day/night cycles , a more technical viewpoint splitting
the hemispheres , the Northern half experienced orbital sunrise (Equinox)
over a month ago and is heading to orbital noon (June Solstice) in less
than 8 weeks. A more gentler way to appreciate the orbital day/night
cycle is that the trees answer solely to the orbital rotation as they
wake up at the Equinox, so to speak, as their leaves come out in response
to the effects of that day and go to sleep,again so to speak, after the Fall Equinox.

It is just another way of approaching the seasons where dual surface
rotations combine and most people already are aware that they do exist
,at least they do now. The North and South poles are unique in providing
a window into the orbital surface rotation as both represent opposite
ends of the polar day/night cycle such as one experiences polar sunrise
while simultaneous the other experiences polar sunset just like its daily
rotational counterpart. Where it combines with daily rotation it becomes
a hemispherical affair and therein lies great challenges.

The choice is clear as are those who support it, there will be those who
wish to continue with a 'solar vs sidereal day' fiction which disrupts
appreciation of the planets dual day/night cycles along with all its
effects and there will be those who are getting a glimpse of the planet's
polar day/night cycle as distinct from its 24 hour day/night cycle.


An LP record turns at 33 rpm whether you look at the centre or the edges.
The Earth turns at the same rate whether you are at the pole or the
equator. If you stand astride the south pole for 24 hours you will rotate
with the Earth and see the sun's glow just after sunset move 360 degrees
round the horizon. The sun will be below the horizon but you can still see
the
glow.

Thanks for the flat Earth description however the Earth is round and rotates in two distinct ways to the central Sun with the polar day/night cycle the focus of attention. All that matters is that the Sun comes into view at the Equinox and remains in view for 6 months with special attention to either polar sunrise/sunset or polar dawn/twilight -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okw6...Y_7 oUOKN5hQJ

You look hopelessly out of touch with such things as polar sunrise and polar sunset 6 months later and really try to look at the Sun coming into view at the September Equinox at the South pole and some day when the space organizations get around to it they will show the North pole turn in a circle across the fully illuminated face of the Earth and 1,600 miles and 23 1/2 degrees below that face defined by the circulation of illumination as seen in the image -

http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/...mericas250.jpg

There should be so much enthusiasm for all this as it is our planet and to try to blur the lines between daily and polar rotations for some backward celestial sphere thinking only belongs to dour and sullen minds stuck back in the 17th century.

If people can't manage to subtract daily rotation and look at the single rotation where the poles act as a window into an entire planetary surface rotation then the polar day/night cycle won't make sense.