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Project Constellation Questions
I've heard that the first Unmanned flight of the Project
Constellation/CEV might occur as earily as '07 or '08, but it won't become operational til '14. Are they talking about the full Lunar Version being operational by then? Surely it shouldn't take that long to develop the LEO version, should it? All we are talking about is a new & improved version of the Apollo CSM. How long did it take to develop the original Apollo? Of course we aren't under the same time limit then as now, but it shouldn't need to take 6-7 years to develop? Constellation Testing how would it proceed? How many Unmanned launches would they do before the first crewed launch? On the first Crewed launch will it be just one or the full crew? Would they attempt to Dock with ISS on the first Crewed mission? (Or would they attempt to do an automated docking with and unmanned mission?) Depending on who wins the Bid, Boening or LM, is the Constellation/CEV going to be exclusive launched on their EELV or will it be made to work with either one? (If its designed to work with multiple EELVs, is it possible that it might work with Araine or H2?) If Bush's Moon/Mars gets the Green light, which I agree is doubtful Will they go thru the same sequence of testing as Apollo did like: Apollo 8,9 & 10 or will they skip 8 & 9 and go directly to Apollo 10 & Beyound Regardless of a Moon/Mars mission or not does anyone see this happening: Constellation Shenzhou Project/Mission? The only thing I'm having trouble seeing is how the Constellation will fit into a Mars mission. Comments anyone? Space Cadet derwetzelsDASHmailATyahooDOTcom |
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Project Constellation Questions
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Project Constellation Questions
"Space Cadet" wrote in message m... I've heard that the first Unmanned flight of the Project Constellation/CEV might occur as earily as '07 or '08, but it won't become operational til '14. Are they talking about the full Lunar Version being operational by then? No. Surely it shouldn't take that long to develop the LEO version, should it? It will. There will be little money for it. All we are talking about is a new & improved version of the Apollo CSM. How long did it take to develop the original Apollo? Of course we aren't under the same time limit then as now, but it shouldn't need to take 6-7 years to develop? Money, money, money. Compare the funding levels. |
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Project Constellation Questions
In article ,
Space Cadet wrote: I've heard that the first Unmanned flight of the Project Constellation/CEV might occur as earily as '07 or '08, but it won't become operational til '14. Are they talking about the full Lunar Version being operational by then? Almost certainly this will be the CSM equivalent, not incorporating a lunar lander. The long delay between initial testing and operational status has not really been explained... Surely it shouldn't take that long to develop the LEO version, should it? Well, it *shouldn't*, but... All we are talking about is a new & improved version of the Apollo CSM. How long did it take to develop the original Apollo? Of course we aren't under the same time limit then as now, but it shouldn't need to take 6-7 years to develop? First flight in 4-5 years is a bit challenging -- that's an Apollo-class timescale without Apollo-class funding -- but another 6 years after that is rather hard to explain. How many Unmanned launches would they do before the first crewed launch? As few as they can get away with, probably only one or two. On the first Crewed launch will it be just one or the full crew? Likely it will have a full *crew*, but probably no *passengers*. (You really only need a crew of one or two for such a vehicle.) Would they attempt to Dock with ISS on the first Crewed mission? Most likely, yes -- there's little point in having a manned test which just sits around in orbit duplicating the unmanned tests. As on Apollo 8, once you put a crew in it, you might as well have them go somewhere. (Or would they attempt to do an automated docking with and unmanned mission?) Whether it even *has* unmanned docking capability depends on later priorities. It easily might not. Depending on who wins the Bid, Boening or LM, is the Constellation/CEV going to be exclusive launched on their EELV or will it be made to work with either one? Almost certainly, operation on either EELV will be a contract requirement, unless the winning bidder can make a compelling case that it's impossible. But the EELVs will probably need modifications, and NASA may well give one or the other priority on that, instead of doing both simultaneously... so there may be only one choice for the first little while. (If NASA was smart, they'd specify initial capability on the *other* company's EELV.) (If its designed to work with multiple EELVs, is it possible that it might work with Araine or H2?) It probably would, although that may not be of much interest. If Bush's Moon/Mars gets the Green light, which I agree is doubtful Will they go thru the same sequence of testing as Apollo did like: Apollo 8,9 & 10 or will they skip 8 & 9 and go directly to Apollo 10... Remember that Apollo never intended to do things in the order they did; Apollo 8 was an improvisation, working around delays in the LM. You definitely want to do an Apollo 9 equivalent, the Apollo D mission, checking out the lunar lander close to home. (Although you have to read the technical papers to hear about it, there were some significant issues with the LM that got found on Apollo 9 and fixed before Apollo 10.) Apollo originally planned an E mission, a second checkout flight at high altitude but not near the Moon. That would probably be worth doing only if the D mission found bad LM problems, justifying a second checkout to make sure they'd been fixed right. Many people thought there was a good chance of that on Apollo, but in the end it didn't happen that way and the E mission was canceled. So if the D mission went halfway well and the issues from it seemed manageable, probably you'd go straight from there to the F mission, the dress rehearsal, Apollo 10. Whether you'd get an Apollo 8 equivalent somewhere in there would depend on politics, as it did in the real world. (The clinching argument for doing a lunar-orbit mission without an LM was the possibility that the Soviets were about to do a manned Zond lunar flyby.) Regardless of a Moon/Mars mission or not does anyone see this happening: Constellation Shenzhou Project/Mission? A joint mission of that sort seems very unlikely. Relations are currently cool enough that people wouldn't be enthusiastic about it, but not cold enough to make expensive symbolic gestures of friendship appealing after a future thaw. There would have to be some real gain for both sides, and it's not obvious what it would be. The only thing I'm having trouble seeing is how the Constellation will fit into a Mars mission. It doesn't, except possibly as the Earth reentry capsule, used at the very end. (You'd want bigger living quarters for the journey.) -- MOST launched 30 June; science observations running | Henry Spencer since Oct; first surprises seen; papers pending. | |
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Project Constellation Questions
"Jorge R. Frank" wrote:
(Space Cadet) wrote in om: Surely it shouldn't take that long to develop the LEO version, should it? All we are talking about is a new & improved version of the Apollo CSM. How long did it take to develop the original Apollo? Of course we aren't under the same time limit then as now, but it shouldn't need to take 6-7 years to develop? Apollo started under Eisenhower but didn't get serious funding until Kennedy's first budget, FY1962. It made its first manned flight in 1968. CEV is starting now but faces a similar funding "wedge": right now it is being funded mostly by redirecting OSP and shuttle upgrades. It will start getting serious funding when the shuttle is retired in 2010. The situations are not quite parallel. Apollo was a concept for a general orbiter that was kicking around from a very early date. The serious funding (1962) was for a quite different ship, a command element for a lunar mission. There is a lot similar in the two designs, but also a great deal different, but I'd say Apollo only really started in 1962. D. -- The STS-107 Columbia Loss FAQ can be found at the following URLs: Text-Only Version: http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq.html Enhanced HTML Version: http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq_x.html Corrections, comments, and additions should be e-mailed to , as well as posted to sci.space.history and sci.space.shuttle for discussion. |
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Project Constellation Questions
It will be interesting to see how much of the original NAR Apollo vehicle design
is reincorporated into the new ship. Furthermore, I believe it should be built with the capability to dock with a LEM type vehicle. In order to declare the program as a success, humans will have to re-occupy the lunar surface, and this time without a conclusion deadline. I have to agree with Henry, the goal is too fantastic for the time frame and lack of proper funding. In the meantime, NASA will have to remain productive with the ISS and deep-space probes through this solar system and visualizing others. Fortunately, we don't necessarily have the obligation to run project Mercury and Gemini training-wheel sessions to get moving. One thing should be observed as a word of caution: This new program must not fail to talk to those people whose experience made the Apollo missions successful. There will be more deaths and there will be more Gemini 8 and Apollo 13-like situation in this learning curve. Expect it. "Challenger" and "Columbia" type accidents won't happen until we get sloppy again, declaring that rocketing into space is once again, operational, with nothing novel in each mission. Every flight is novel. |
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Project Constellation Questions
Space Cadet wrote:
I've heard that the first Unmanned flight of the Project Constellation/CEV might occur as earily as '07 or '08, but it won't become operational til '14. Are they talking about the full Lunar Version being operational by then? Surely it shouldn't take that long to develop the LEO version, should it? All we are talking about is a new & improved version of the Apollo CSM. How long did it take to develop the original Apollo? Of course we aren't under the same time limit then as now, but it shouldn't need to take 6-7 years to develop? Constellation Testing how would it proceed? How many Unmanned launches would they do before the first crewed launch? On the first Crewed launch will it be just one or the full crew? Would they attempt to Dock with ISS on the first Crewed mission? (Or would they attempt to do an automated docking with and unmanned mission?) Depending on who wins the Bid, Boening or LM, is the Constellation/CEV going to be exclusive launched on their EELV or will it be made to work with either one? (If its designed to work with multiple EELVs, is it possible that it might work with Araine or H2?) If Bush's Moon/Mars gets the Green light, which I agree is doubtful Will they go thru the same sequence of testing as Apollo did like: Apollo 8,9 & 10 or will they skip 8 & 9 and go directly to Apollo 10 & Beyound Regardless of a Moon/Mars mission or not does anyone see this happening: Constellation Shenzhou Project/Mission? The only thing I'm having trouble seeing is how the Constellation will fit into a Mars mission. Comments anyone? Space Cadet derwetzelsDASHmailATyahooDOTcom does this involve going back to throwaway rockets like the titans atlas, etc. instead of another reusable shuttle? |
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Project Constellation Questions
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 21:24:04 -0500, Dilbert Firestorm
wrote: I've heard that the first Unmanned flight of the Project Constellation/CEV might occur as earily as '07 or '08, but it won't become operational til '14. does this involve going back to throwaway rockets like the titans atlas, etc. instead of another reusable shuttle? Yes. Constellation is to be launched on versions of both the Atlas V and Delta IV expendable rockets (both of which entered service in 2002.) There is nothing to preclude a Constellation being launched on a reusable vehicle in the future, should one appear on the market, but NASA has abandoned its effort to develop a Reusable Launch Vehicle. Brian |
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Project Constellation Questions
"Henry Spencer" wrote in message ... Almost certainly this will be the CSM equivalent, not incorporating a lunar lander. The long delay between initial testing and operational status has not really been explained... An extensive test program is envisioned at present. Surely it shouldn't take that long to develop the LEO version, should it? Well, it *shouldn't*, but... This is not a crash program with tons of money to spend. First flight in 4-5 years is a bit challenging -- that's an Apollo-class timescale without Apollo-class funding -- but another 6 years after that is rather hard to explain. Spiral development. There will be boilerplate tests at first, followed by block I vehicles that will evaluate performance in abort scenarios and flight-test systems in a spiraling path to block II. How many Unmanned launches would they do before the first crewed launch? As few as they can get away with, probably only one or two. Initial timelines show quite a number of unmanned flight tests. remember that this is in the post-CAIB environment. (Or would they attempt to do an automated docking with and unmanned mission?) Whether it even *has* unmanned docking capability depends on later priorities. It easily might not. Early indications are that it will have autonomous rendezvous and docking. At this point in the project there are a huge number of internally-asked, unanswered questions. A solid path probably won't emerge for six months or more. -Kim- |
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Project Constellation Questions
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