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Steve Lindsey - Astronaut Liar



 
 
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  #121  
Old December 27th 08, 07:15 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,sci.space.shuttle,sci.space.station
Fred J. McCall[_3_]
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Posts: 10,018
Default Steve Lindsey - Astronaut Liar

Ian Parker wrote:

:On 24 Dec, 14:42, Fred J. McCall wrote:
:
: Fred, at least, knows no such thing. *By merely a slight extension of
: that thinking, Earth can't exist completely independently, then.
:
:
:I am talking about something that can be built at reasonable cost
:within today's emergent technology.
:

Note that this eliminates every wet dream you've spurted here.

:
:The Earth is in fact a biosystem.
:

So? It is still a 'von Neumann machine' in the loosest sense.

:
:It is for example a truism to say that we could not exist without
:insects.
:

So?

:
:
: Or, to put it in your usual loonytoon vocabulary, are you insisting
: that a von Neumann machine is impossible?
:
:
:Make up your mind bin Al-kalb. You castigated me for lunacy when I
roposed such a thing. Now you are postulating one yourself!
:

My mind is made up. You're an idiot. However, that has nothing to do
with my having just shown you to be talking about of both (at least)
sides of your mouth.

:
:To build a siege colony you need a VN machine.
:

Only in the loosest possible sense (which involves people taking care
of all the 'creative' bits).

:
:There is no other way
f doing this at reasonable cost.
:

And that's not a reasonable cost. Ergo, your visions of VNs and AI
are 'impossible' by your own selective definitions, above.

:
:You can look at the Asteroid belt
:and if a VN machine could be made to work in that environment there is
:no limit to what you might think of doing.
:

Just as there is no limit if one cannot be made to work in that
environment and you send people, instead.

:
:You could even make an
:interstellar trip with a Forward type laser system.
:

As you could without one.

:
:One word of caution. A colony based on a VN machine would in itself
:consistute an antropgenic risk. Kevin Warwick has written a book on
:"The mind of the machine" in which he states that machines will be
:more intelligent than us and (if given a will of their own) will take
:us over.
:


All sorts of loony people will write all sorts of loony things.

The prime example is virtually everything you write.


--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine
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  #122  
Old December 27th 08, 07:19 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,sci.space.shuttle,sci.space.station
Fred J. McCall[_3_]
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Posts: 10,018
Default Steve Lindsey - Astronaut Liar

Ian Parker , spinning off into fantasy, wrote:
:
arwin talked about natural selection survival of the fittest. Let us
:suppose we use VN machnies to construct two siege colonies. Both are
:at war with each other. Eventually both sides decide that they can
:maximize their strength by letting AI evolve strategies for the defeat
f the other. The 2 VN mchines are therefore attempting to destroy one
:and other. The fittest will, of course, survive. Each machine feels
:that its chances of survival would be maximized if it gave up carrying
:the humans on whose behalf it was fighting the war.
:

Why would it reach that conclusion?

:
:Eventually a robotic ecosystem will evolve, but it will be one that
:excludes humans.
:

No such 'ecosystem' will evolve because the primary evolutionary agent
(man) has (in your delusions) been removed (for unspecified reasons).


--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine
  #123  
Old December 27th 08, 07:24 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,sci.space.shuttle,sci.space.station
Fred J. McCall[_3_]
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Posts: 10,018
Default Steve Lindsey - Astronaut Liar

Ian Parker wrote:

:On 24 Dec, 15:35, Fred J. McCall wrote:
: Ian Parker wrote:
:
: :On 23 Dec, 14:56, "Jeff Findley" wrote:
: : "Ian Parker" wrote in message
: : Really what can you say? This group is one for failed astronauts and
: : Establishment cronies.
: :
: : All the remarks I have made deserve a decent reply. I will ask again.
: :
: : 1) How can manned spaceflight be justified with the enormous expansion
: : in AI and robatic capability in general?
: :
: : Robots still can't do 1/10th of what a man in a suit can do. *The rovers on
: : Mars have taken years to move less distance than the manned lunar rovers did
: : during Apollo.
: :
: :
: :Apollo was in 1969/70 a lot has changed since then. In 1969 the only
: :way to get a quality Moon mission was to send astronauts. This is not
: :true today.
: :
:
: Well, actually, yes, it is.
:
: :
: :I think we must look at robots not only today but at the critical
: :dates. Moon base 2020. Manned expedition to Mars 2030. These are not
: :my dates BTW, I regard them as being very optimistic. They assume that
: :space is going to be a high priority for administrations.
: :
:
: Potentially optimistic. *Does someone have the 'closest approach'
: dates to hand? *It seems to me that these are going to at least
: somewhat drive timing for a Mars mission.
:
: :
: :As I think I have said you don't need full AI a la Kurtzweil. You just
: :need human manual dexterity + some pattern recognition capability.
: :This is in fact being worked on now.
: :
:
: And that will get you perhaps 0.1% of the effectiveness you would get
: if you sent people.
:
: : 2) Should winged craft be considered at all in view of what
: : simple_language has said? What about the 2 tons of lead?
: :
: : You can't damn all winged craft based on a sample size of one experimental
: : craft (the US space shuttle). *I don't count the Russian shuttle since it's
: : a clone of the US shuttle.
: :
: :Indeed not. I think in fact "simple language" was oversimlified. There
: :are a few points that can be made. One ad hominem point is that
: :Arianespace has built an extremely successful COMMERCIAL business on
: :the Ariane 5 expendible. If your load is too small perhaps a Soyuz
: :would suit you sir.
: :
:
: It's easy to build a 'commercial business' if you get all your
: launcher development and facilities for free.
:
: :
:
: paragraphs of irrelevancy elided
:
: :
: :My point though was this. People should have told Simple_language the
: :error of his ways as soon as he posted.
: :
:
: You would have saved a lot if you hadn't wandered all around the barn
: before arriving at your 'point'.
:
: : 3) If you are going to have space colonies (to save the World that is)
: : should not anthpogenic threats be considered?
: :
: : WTF are you talking about? *It's statements like this that make you look
: : like a complete nut job.
: :
: :I disagree. As I pointed out there are reasons for space colonies
: ther than "saving the world".
: :
:
: Quite true, but that doesn't make that reason invalid.
:
: :
: :In view however of trends in automation
: :it is hard to see any real scientific value, if that is your
: :criterion.
: :
:
: For direct scientific value of SPACE settlements, that's probably
: true. *However, having people in space makes the accompanying unmanned
: platforms easier to service.
:
: :
: :Youu need to find a humanistic reason. Perhaps throwing
: :your partner over your head is as good as any.
: :
:
: There are all sorts of reasons. *No single one is 'the' reason.
: Carping about a reason someone puts forward as if they have claimed it
: is the only reason is specious reasoning at best and intellectual
: dishonesty at worst.
:
: :
: :Hawking however expressly mentioned "saving the world". When you say
: :that you immediately ask "are there better ways of doing this?". Risks
: :fall into 2 classes. There are natural risks like asteroids and
: :volcanic eruptions, and there are antropgenic risks like genetically
: :engineered lurgis. Most people who have studied this question believe
: :that antropogenic risks are much greater. My feelings are and have
: :always been these.
: :
: :1) These risks should be tackled on Earth. Talking about space
: :colonies only gives an excuse to the establishment to ignore them.
: :
:
: Ah, there's that evil 'Establishment' again. *The preceding is
: nonsensical. *If such "risks" are going to be "tackled" on Earth they
: will be. *Nobody (sane) is going to reason that, "Well, we won't
: tackle this here because we have a space colony."
:
: :
: :2) A space colony will NOT be immune from antropogenic risk. Indeed
: :space colonies may even increase the risk.
: :
:
: True, it won't be immune. *But it is a different basket. *Don't keep
: all your eggs in one basket.
:
: :
: :3) A siege colony is an impossibility in any event.
: :
:
: Horse manure. *A 'siege colony' is quite possible, although you
: certainly won't have one within a decade of starting the effort. *It
: seems that everything must be "right now" for 3 year olds and loons.
:
: :
: :
: : It has become increasingly clear that there is indeed an "Al-kalb"
: : course. No one is prepared to arge anymore in a proper scientific way.
: :
: : Actually, I am, it's you that's putting faith in things like robotics and
: : "AI" when such faith is unwarrented. *The utility of people in spacesuits is
: : well demonstrated. *The utility of robotics and AI to replace them is not.
: :
: :Well, after Hawking had made his remarks and I had made my first
: osting I made a few errors about the Antrax attacks.
: :
:
: "A few errors"? *You got virtually EVERYTHING wrong.
:
: :
: :The point, which
: :I wanted to make, was that the attacks had originated in the US, were
: f US military manufacture and had done immense damage. This is
: :undeniable.
: :
:
: Oh, is it? *We *still* don't know those things with certainty. *We
: don't even know that all the anthrax was from the same source. *There
: were apparently three distinct grades involved in the attacks.
:
: None of it was "of US military manufacture", by the way. *You're
: misstating the known facts again.
:
: It hardly did "immense damage". *Only 5 people died.
:
: :
: :I got the impression that I knew the truth and they knew
: :the truth.
: :
:
: You get all sorts of loony impressions, which you then go on to treat
: as if they are facts.
:
: :
: :As a token of their concern about the risk of meteorites they
: :deliberated hijacked a discussion on that very subject.
: :
: :Mrs. Stevens is someone I feel very sorry for. How relevant is this?
: :Well the fact that the sons of dogs argued that they were not
: :responsible speaks volumes about them.
: :
:
: What are you gibbering about now?
:
: :
: :As I said I don't know whether there is conspiracy or not. There are
: :just too many cooincidences/
: :
:
: State that you don't know some loony idea's truth or falsity and then
: go on to act as if it must be true. *Vintage Ian (A.S.S.) Parker.
:
: : This group is not a science group. I don't know what it is but it is
: : definitely not scientific. How anyone can pretend it is I don't know.
: : It is a group for failed astronauts and progeny of dogs.
: :
: : Well, if you didn't appear to the rest of the group as a wounded animal,
: : then perhaps the dogs would not attack.
: :
: :Such behaviour would be completely unacceptable in any scientific
: :conference. No one can deny this. I will not put up with this and I do
: :not see why I should have to.
: :
:
: You don't have to put up with anything. *You have lots of
: alternatives. *You could stop acting like a loonytoon. *You could
: leave. *You could seek mental health care.
:
: I don't see why sane people should have to put up with you.
:
:Here we go again. My latest posting shows just how chonically INSANE
:YOU are.
:

Yes, A.S.S., here we go again. You are able to respond to nothing
other than the very end, but leave everything (I did the same, since
reading through it is a clear demonstration of just how stupid you
are). I respond to you in kind and you think this shows *I* am
"INSANE".

Seek help, Ian. Either your author needs to rewrite you or you need
your meds adjusted.


--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine
  #124  
Old December 27th 08, 07:48 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,sci.space.shuttle,sci.space.station
Fred J. McCall[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,018
Default Steve Lindsey - Astronaut Liar

Ian Parker wrote:
:
:Are you a "bint" by any chance? Turing said that you should be able to
:tell the sex of a person in as black box. I am afraid I can't even do
:that.
:

Noted. We'll add it to the list of all the other things you don't
know, can't do, and don't understand.

:
:We are all descended from the Ape. That is all except the US Military
:who are descended from dogs.
:

And there's another one....


--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine
  #125  
Old December 27th 08, 08:21 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,sci.space.shuttle,sci.space.station
Fred J. McCall[_3_]
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Posts: 10,018
Default Steve Lindsey - Astronaut Liar

Fang Shui wrote:

:On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 11:15:39 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:
:
:So? It is still a 'von Neumann machine' in the loosest sense.
:
:No, it's a habitat filled with VNMs. What separates the Earth from
:being classified as a VNM is that the Earth cannot replicate itself.
:

Who's talking about the Earth being a VN machine? You should have
snipped one more line before replying....


--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn
  #126  
Old December 29th 08, 08:50 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,sci.space.shuttle,sci.space.station
Pat Flannery
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Posts: 18,466
Default Steve Lindsey - Astronaut Liar



Greg D. Moore (Strider) wrote:
Does she strip the wax off of her college dorm room floor at around 3 AM,
like Jordan did? :-)



Somehow, I doubt it. She was more of an English lit type.


Probably couldn't even make a rebreather diving system if she had to,
could she?
Well, _I've_ got a BA with a minor in English lit, and you get me some
Sodium Hydroxide and _I'll_ build you a rebreather.
I worked with hundreds of pounds of that awful stuff back when I had a
part time job in High School. :-D
BTW, Jordan was based on a real student at Caltech:
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/7350/misc.html

Pat
 




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