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Apollo One, the FBI, and Scott Grissom



 
 
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  #521  
Old June 9th 04, 03:12 PM
LaDonna Wyss
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"Charleston" wrote in message news:VJyxc.6800$fZ1.1208@fed1read03...
"Charleston" wrote:
"LaDonna Wyss" wrote:.


Correction of previous post.

Surely it could not have been caused by the catastrophic failure of the

heat
shield in multiple locations in the middle of a flash fire that burned and
smoldered in the ECU area?


"heat shield" should be "aft bulkhead" and "flash fire" should be
"aggressive fire"


Why should "heat shield" be "aft bulkhead"? The ablative shield
surrounds the crew compartment. And as for "flash fire", that's
NASA's quote, so take it up with them.
  #523  
Old June 9th 04, 03:34 PM
Charleston
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"LaDonna Wyss" wrote:
"Charleston" wrote:
"LaDonna Wyss" wrote:.


Please read to the bottom.

Ummm, since you have "worked with electricity for a long time" then
you must realize that on a circuit containing such a short, a fire can
start at the point of the short, or at any place along that circuit,
or in multiple places along the circuit. You are assuming the fire
started behind Panel 8 behind or around the A/C roll switch.


Why would anyone assume the fire started behinf MDC Panel 8? The

physical
evidence supports no such conclusion.


No response?

It did
not. (As a side note, have you been to Scott's website and seen the
picture of that microswitch? It is clear something rather powerful
blew through that circuit.)


"Powerful"? and "blew through"? that circuit? The one at S11?


You ignored this?

This one? http://www.apollo1.info/images/Apollo1microswitch.jpg

I see a nice shiny metallic colored switch that is so clean that I can

read
the word "MICROSWITCH" (black on silver) that is a size 10 font or

smaller.
I see a toggle switch that was physically on the heat exposed side of

the
MDC panel 8 that has suffered moderate heat damage.


You ignored this?

How about this angle? http://www.apollo1.info/Apollo1RearS11Wires.htm

Look at those wires. If they are teflon then they melt at about 550º F.
You would see soot covered copper if they had been exposed to

significant
heat. How about the paint? No blistering, no bubbling, no

discoloration
and once again we can read something too "S11". In fact the photo is

good
enough that you can actually see where the microswitch front surface

touched
that paint because there is a bit of soot surrounding that ring. Look
closely.


You ignored this?

Now the proof is always in the control isn't it? So here is a control
photograph that proves the S11 toggle switch is no different than its
neighbors.

http://www.apollo1.info/Apollo1Front...RollSwitch.htm

I see some soot laden MDC 8 metal. I also see moderately heat damaged
toggle switches. I see words on the sooted MDC Panel 8. I see clean

metal
behind the switch 11 finger guard. I see a lock washer impression where
switch 11 was once installed. Now I don't see any tell-tale discolored
metal consistent with overheating, nor white alpha aluminum oxide

deposits.
I don't see any evidence of molten metal flow.


You ignored this?

The fire actually started in the +yaw
thruster of the Service Module, and the fire started 22 minutes before
NASA claims it did.


What part of the RCS was energized? Was it the solenoids? What are the
solenoids made of? Which ones? Did any metal melt or burn? Aluminum?
Stainless steel? This is important. Where did the smoke escape to from
this RCS fire? Remember there were a few open Service Module access

panels
to facilitate ground equipment access. Did anyone witness this aluminum

or
stainless steel smoking? What about that wiring in the Service Module?
Surely it would have smoked up a storm and escaped the Service Module

onto
the platforms at levels A7 and A8? The ones where the witnesses were
working. Let's follow this to a logical conclusion. Please do explain.

Again, if you ever find your way to the National
Archives, you will find multiple documents discussing fire damage to
Sector One of the Service Module, damage technicians were at a loss to
explain.


Surely it could not have been caused by the catastrophic failure of the

heat
shield in multple locations in the middle of a flash fire that burned

and
smoldered in the ECU area?

Further, if you get a copy of the voice transcript, you will
find that +yaw thruster misfired the first time Gus pulsed it; he was
forced to fire it a second time.


He did not fire any RCS thrusters LaDonna. The Service Module RCS

wasn't
even wired to the CM MDC. Neither was the Command Module RCS. Instead

NASA
wired the Command Module MDC electronics that command the RCS to "load
boxes" and "A14-275 quad simulators" right? Or is this inconvenient

part of
the report just part of the big coverup too? Oh and it's pages

1139-1140
and 1237 if you don't believe me.


I am incredulous.


You will be more incredulous soon enough. I will be scanning the pages that
explain the RCS was not electrically connected to the MDC soon enough.

How can you pretend to speak so authoritatively
about something you obviously know nothing about?


Huh? Me?

What do you MEAN
Gus didn't fire any RCS thrusters?


They were not wired to the Command Module MDC.

Do you even know what a Plugs-Out
test is?


Yes. In fact I do. Do you know what a simulation is?

Yes, he DID fire thrusters;


No he did not. NASA did not want the RCS solenoids and valves energized.
You should ask why.

the Rotation Control portion of
the Static Fire test demands he do so. He pulsed, in the following
order, -pitch, +pitch, -yaw, +yaw, -roll, +roll. Why don't you get
out the Crew Checklist, and the voice transcript, and check it
out?????


Why don't you? I know what Gus did according to the report, but it does not
mean that the SM RCS was energized in anyway. Moving a Rotation Control
activates only what that circuit is wired too at that moment in time.

And how do you know who said what about what? Do you have the voice
transcript? You obviously do not, or you wouldn't have made such a
ridiculous statement about the thrusters


Wrong.

The crew DID talk about
having their visors open; however, NASA has doctored that transcript
so we don't know everything that was said.


Okay that is news to me. I thought the Doctors were incompetent. So
incompetent that they left a piece of sabotage evidence behind according to
you.

And yes, I anticipate the
question: The reason I know it has been doctored is because there are
quotes in Bell Labs voice tape analysis that are not reflected in the
transcript.


Do go on.

No one "stared blankly"; obviously they were trying to conduct a
'sniff test'.


I was being sarcastic.

Have you never smelled something while driving your
car?


Never.

I know I have; I currently have an emissions problem I need
repaired.


I hope it is not CO related.

I don't pull off to the side of the road and run screaming
for the hills,


Yes and you are not trapped in a pressure vessel with three hatches locking
you in with no other way out either.

but when I smell something that resembles smoke or
something "hot" I immediately turn off the radio and practically
hyperventilate while trying to identify the source.


Hmmmm. Nah, I'll let that one go.

What "catastrophic failure" do you refer to regarding the heat shield?


None, I corrected myself.

As for technicians seeing smoke: Have you read their witness
statements?


Yes, I have. Please cite me a name and page and also what time they saw
the smoke? Shouldn't someone have been fired for ignoring such smoke if
they saw it before the fire started?

Those statements the Review Board conveniently "forgot"
to include in their list of statements DO refer to having seen smoke
coming from those access panels.


When?

--

Daniel
http://www.challengerdisaster.info
Mount Charleston, not Charleston, SC


  #524  
Old June 9th 04, 03:36 PM
Herb Schaltegger
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In article ,
(LaDonna Wyss) wrote:

I am incredulous. How can you pretend to speak so authoritatively
about something you obviously know nothing about? What do you MEAN
Gus didn't fire any RCS thrusters? Do you even know what a Plugs-Out
test is? Yes, he DID fire thrusters; the Rotation Control portion of
the Static Fire test demands he do so. He pulsed, in the following
order, -pitch, +pitch, -yaw, +yaw, -roll, +roll. Why don't you get
out the Crew Checklist, and the voice transcript, and check it
out?????


The RCS thrusters were not fired on the pad; if they were, do you
realize how much damage they could have caused to the pad and white room
structures? The vibrations and oscillations induced in the stack itself
would be interesting as well, to say the least, given how far up along
the stack the RCS units in question were located. Do you know what a
"moment arm" is? I suggest you look up that term before you post more
ignorant nonsense about pad-firings of the RCS.

As Daniel has explained, the RSC command impulses were not used to fire
thrusters, but were instead routed through electronic boxes designed to
produced the appropriate electrical responses (simulating operation of
the RSC components) in the feedback loops and instrumentation. Have you
read the pages he cites or not? A simple "yes" or "no" will suffice
here.

And how do you know who said what about what? Do you have the voice
transcript? You obviously do not, or you wouldn't have made such a
ridiculous statement about the thrusters. The crew DID talk about
having their visors open; however, NASA has doctored that transcript
so we don't know everything that was said. And yes, I anticipate the
question: The reason I know it has been doctored is because there are
quotes in Bell Labs voice tape analysis that are not reflected in the
transcript.


Cite please: page and line number for both the "Bell Labs voice tape
analysis' and the transcript, with National Archives ID numbers for each
document. Daniel has no problem with citations; why do you?

No one "stared blankly"; obviously they were trying to conduct a
'sniff test'. Have you never smelled something while driving your
car? I know I have; I currently have an emissions problem I need
repaired.


That might explain a lot.

I don't pull off to the side of the road and run screaming
for the hills, but when I smell something that resembles smoke or
something "hot" I immediately turn off the radio and practically
hyperventilate while trying to identify the source.
What "catastrophic failure" do you refer to regarding the heat shield?


He's already amended his statement to indicate failure of the aft
bulkhead of the pressure vessel.

As for technicians seeing smoke: Have you read their witness
statements? Those statements the Review Board conveniently "forgot"
to include in their list of statements DO refer to having seen smoke
coming from those access panels.
LaDonna


Have you ever deposed witnesses? They are very often incorrect in
details, especially if they've had a long time to reflect on traumatic
events. The brain edits and completes the gaps in memories, based on
what the observer thinks about most intensely, what the observer wishes
to believe, and what others tell the observer they saw or should have
seen. Furthermore, as noted in the official reports, once the pressure
vessel failed, it allowed heat, combustion gases, smoke and soot into
the space between the aft heat shield and the SM. That is not
inconsistent with your statements above.

Now, turning to Daniel's comments you chose not to address: what about
his remarks concerning the condition of MDC Panel 8? What about the
physical condition of the switch as S11?

--
Herb Schaltegger, B.S., J.D.
Reformed Aerospace Engineer
Columbia Loss FAQ:
http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq_x.html
  #525  
Old June 9th 04, 04:09 PM
OM
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On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 12:32:33 +0100, "Paul Blay"
wrote:

Are Google ID's (as the rnum is being called) even conserved? It's the selm
parameter which identifies which post is shown.

I had a look and message 164 was ...

http://www.google.com/groups?q=g:thl...e.com&rnum=164

however it only contains one question

"Why don't you email him and ask for verification?"


....And to add to the point, "Mesage #164" for me was one of my flames
to the ignorant bitch troll from hell.

OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr
  #527  
Old June 9th 04, 04:19 PM
OM
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On 8 Jun 2004 22:52:54 -0700, (LaDonna Wyss)
wrote:

You people don't even know the difference between a "report" and a freaking letter!


....And you don't know the truth from that gerbil stuffed up your ass.

OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for |
http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr
  #528  
Old June 9th 04, 04:29 PM
OM
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On 8 Jun 2004 22:42:23 -0700, (LaDonna Wyss)
wrote:

Shut the hell up about Betty. She's had quite enough grief in 37 1/2
years of NASA bull****.


....For which *we* are now getting punished for, natch.

OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for |
http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr
  #529  
Old June 9th 04, 04:41 PM
OM
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On 9 Jun 2004 07:11:10 -0700, (LaDonna Wyss)
wrote:

How can you pretend to speak so authoritatively
about something you obviously know nothing about?


....Pot. Kettle. Maxson.

OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for |
http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr
  #530  
Old June 9th 04, 04:41 PM
OM
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On 9 Jun 2004 07:11:10 -0700, (LaDonna Wyss)
wrote:

I currently have an emissions problem I need repaired.


....Boy, if this isn't an understatement of the problem, I dunno what
is.

OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for |
http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr
 




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