Opportunity toaster:( has traveled 22 mars miles

On Feb 5, 2:59*pm, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article fbaf3b07-5242-4f29-9773-1ba3029a6ff8
@ia3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com, says...



On Feb 5, 11:57*am, "Greg \(Strider\) Moore"
wrote:
"bob haller" *wrote in message

with self drive vehicles appearing on roads driving in heavy
traffic.......

Which still have drivers.

their job is to sit and observe, and they have come a long way if a
vehicle can drive itself on freeways then mars should be easier..

B.S.

These new auto-drive vehicles still require a driver that is ready to
take over on a moment's notice. *That's even the law in the US states
where they're legal. *That and they're designed to drive on roads, aided
by GPS, cameras, and etc. *There are no roads on Mars, and there is no
equivalent of GPS on Mars.

how about a sef drive bulldozer to bury moon habitats? or mars? or
wherever?

What about it * Greg D. Moore

done without a operator on moon mars will advance it on earth......

If you want to "advance it on earth", then don't develop it for Mars.
Again, there are systems in place on earth that can help (like GPS) that
are not available on Mars. *Different requirements will have different
solutions, so what works on Mars may not be the best solution, or even
work, on earth.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer

auto drive tractors now plow farmers fields, and there are no roads in
farmers fields

"bob haller" wrote in message
...

On Feb 5, 2:59 pm, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article fbaf3b07-5242-4f29-9773-1ba3029a6ff8
@ia3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com, says...



On Feb 5, 11:57 am, "Greg \(Strider\) Moore"
wrote:
"bob haller" wrote in message

with self drive vehicles appearing on roads driving in heavy
traffic.......

Which still have drivers.

their job is to sit and observe, and they have come a long way if a
vehicle can drive itself on freeways then mars should be easier..

B.S.

These new auto-drive vehicles still require a driver that is ready to
take over on a moment's notice. That's even the law in the US states
where they're legal. That and they're designed to drive on roads, aided
by GPS, cameras, and etc. There are no roads on Mars, and there is no
equivalent of GPS on Mars.

how about a sef drive bulldozer to bury moon habitats? or mars? or
wherever?

What about it Greg D. Moore

done without a operator on moon mars will advance it on earth......

If you want to "advance it on earth", then don't develop it for Mars.
Again, there are systems in place on earth that can help (like GPS) that
are not available on Mars. Different requirements will have different
solutions, so what works on Mars may not be the best solution, or even
work, on earth.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer

auto drive tractors now plow farmers fields, and there are no roads in
farmers fields

No, but they have GPS and other aids.





--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net

On Feb 5, 10:35*pm, "Greg \(Strider\) Moore"
wrote:
"bob haller" *wrote in message

...







On Feb 5, 2:59 pm, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article fbaf3b07-5242-4f29-9773-1ba3029a6ff8
@ia3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com, says...

On Feb 5, 11:57 am, "Greg \(Strider\) Moore"
wrote:
"bob haller" *wrote in message

with self drive vehicles appearing on roads driving in heavy
traffic.......

Which still have drivers.

their job is to sit and observe, and they have come a long way if a
vehicle can drive itself on freeways then mars should be easier..

B.S.

These new auto-drive vehicles still require a driver that is ready to
take over on a moment's notice. *That's even the law in the US states
where they're legal. *That and they're designed to drive on roads, aided
by GPS, cameras, and etc. *There are no roads on Mars, and there is no
equivalent of GPS on Mars.

how about a sef drive bulldozer to bury moon habitats? or mars? or
wherever?

What about it * Greg D. Moore

done without a operator on moon mars will advance it on earth......

If you want to "advance it on earth", then don't develop it for Mars.
Again, there are systems in place on earth that can help (like GPS) that
are not available on Mars. *Different requirements will have different
solutions, so what works on Mars may not be the best solution, or even
work, on earth.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer

auto drive tractors now plow farmers fields, and there are no roads in
farmers fields

No, but they have GPS and other aids.



--
Greg D. Moore * * * * * * * * *http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses.http://www.quicr.net

mars can have GPS too. Probably with fewer sats, since they dont need
precision like on earth where GPS have so many uses......

On Feb 5, 11:23*pm, Fred J. McCall wrote:
bob haller wrote:

mars can have GPS too. Probably with fewer sats, since they dont need
precision like on earth where GPS have *so many uses......

Go read up on how GPS works. *Your ignorance is showing (again).

--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
*truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *-- Thomas Jefferson

auto drive tractors are primarily used on very large farms, to not
only plow but harvest........

being unmanned allows the farmer to be doing other farm jobs, that
still require humans

"bob haller" wrote in message
...


done without a operator on moon mars will advance it on earth......


No, you have it ass-backwards. Doing it on EARTH will advance it on the
Moon or Mars.




--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net

"bob haller" wrote in message
...

On Feb 5, 2:59 pm, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article fbaf3b07-5242-4f29-9773-1ba3029a6ff8
@ia3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com, says...



On Feb 5, 11:57 am, "Greg \(Strider\) Moore"
wrote:
"bob haller" wrote in message

with self drive vehicles appearing on roads driving in heavy
traffic.......

Which still have drivers.

their job is to sit and observe, and they have come a long way if a
vehicle can drive itself on freeways then mars should be easier..

B.S.

These new auto-drive vehicles still require a driver that is ready to
take over on a moment's notice. That's even the law in the US states
where they're legal. That and they're designed to drive on roads, aided
by GPS, cameras, and etc. There are no roads on Mars, and there is no
equivalent of GPS on Mars.

how about a sef drive bulldozer to bury moon habitats? or mars? or
wherever?

What about it Greg D. Moore

done without a operator on moon mars will advance it on earth......

If you want to "advance it on earth", then don't develop it for Mars.
Again, there are systems in place on earth that can help (like GPS) that
are not available on Mars. Different requirements will have different
solutions, so what works on Mars may not be the best solution, or even
work, on earth.

Jeff
--

mars could get a GPS system, most likely as part of a global
communication system so that anywhere on the surface would have comm
ability to anywhere on mars and to earth too. that will be essential
for both robotic or manned mssions

Essential? OMG, how have we managed so far with the robotic missions?

Bob, you know you're basically following the logic NASA followed with Ares
and now SLS.

When you start having to add so many things to fix problems, you really
honestly have to step back and question your assumptions. Not add yet
another band-aid.

This is the same mistake you made with Strato-launcher. By the time you
were done, you were adding inflight refueling, and a dozen other bells and
whistles.



America could be a world leader and regain its competivness in
manufacturing.... advances on AI and robotics are coming fast no
matter what..


Exactly. Advances HERE will drive advances THERE. Not the other way
around.

when its cheaper to use robotics to assemble products, which could
have better quality too..

now wether america leads the technology, or other countries do is a
open question.



--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net

Lets look back at some historical facts

Computers were needed for the moon landing since it would be
impossible to have enough humans onboard to control apollo and the LMs
landing. Real time data downlinks / uplinks wouldnt be good enough.

So nasa got mini computers to do the job.....

which led to hand held calculators etc......

apollo computers had less memory than a dollar store calcualtor
today......


nasas needs drove all sorts of developments that benefit every person
on earth....

"bob haller" wrote in message
...

Lets look back at some historical facts

Lovely, let me know when you get some.



Computers were needed for the moon landing since it would be
impossible to have enough humans onboard to control apollo and the LMs
landing. Real time data downlinks / uplinks wouldnt be good enough.

So nasa got mini computers to do the job.....

And which mini-computers did they get exactly that weren't commercially
available? Hint: none.

Now, if you're talking the LM/CM computers, please cite where these were
used in applications on earth.


which led to hand held calculators etc......

Umm no. If anything the vast fleet of earth-based ICBMs lead to the
integrated circuit which lead to hand-held calculators.


apollo computers had less memory than a dollar store calcualtor
today......


There's you first fact.


nasas needs drove all sorts of developments that benefit every person
on earth....

Yes, but as Carl Sagan pointed out, it would have been cheaper to fund those
developments directly.

Apollo's biggest contribution was probably one that involved no hardware,
but lots of paper. Basically management of a VERY large project.

Even then it relied on management techniques already developed here on
Earth.


No one is arguing that NASA doesn't have spin-offs. Just some of us have
bothered to learn exactly how valuable they really are (compared to NASA
press releases).

Of course a certain irony just crossed my mind. Despite being pointed
towards information multiple times detailing the science done on ISS, you
seem to believe nothing is done there, while believing that EVERYTHING can
be done with a Mars mission.





--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net

In article 2b04c91d-8699-4bf4-8b7e-
, says...

On Feb 5, 2:59*pm, Jeff Findley wrote:

If you want to "advance it on earth", then don't develop it for Mars.
Again, there are systems in place on earth that can help (like GPS) that
are not available on Mars. *Different requirements will have different
solutions, so what works on Mars may not be the best solution, or even
work, on earth.

mars could get a GPS system, most likely as part of a global
communication system so that anywhere on the surface would have comm
ability to anywhere on mars and to earth too. that will be essential
for both robotic or manned mssions

Holy crap you're f-ing nuts! Do you have any idea how expensive the GPS
constellation is around earth? Now add the additional cost to deliver
the same sort of satellites to Mars and you're going to be throwing
enough mass at Mars that you might as well send people instead of Mars
GPS satellites!

America could be a world leader and regain its competivness in
manufacturing.... advances on AI and robotics are coming fast no
matter what..

Then invest in terrestrial applications for this technology in order to
reap benefits on earth.

when its cheaper to use robotics to assemble products, which could
have better quality too..

We're not there yet. The sort of AI you keep arguing exists, does *not*
exist yet. And where it's getting somewhat close, it *still* requires
constant supervision by humans in order to deal with the unexpected. On
top of that, current implementations are far too large, heavy, and power
hungry to put on a tiny unmanned toaster on Mars.

now wether america leads the technology, or other countries do is a
open question.

I question whether or not you actually think while you type. All I'm
seeing you posting on Usenet is a constant stream of ASCII diarrhea that
makes no sense.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer

In article 16448aa4-c3ce-4dca-a700-e2cc8da0ca26
@u21g2000vbo.googlegroups.com, says...


auto drive tractors now plow farmers fields, and there are no roads in
farmers fields

Cite? I'd like to know what tech they're using (e.g. GPS) since you've
already been told the tech here may not apply on Mars.

If such a thing does exist, I've not heard of it and one side of my
family are *all* farmers. My cousin has the newest tractor of the bunch
(very high tech for a tractor) and I'm certain it does not "drive
itself". When his tractor is working, he's right there in the cab,
despite all the "high tech" bells and whistles it's got. If he has to
be in the cab when it's running, it's *not* automated to the extent you
think you can automate toasters on Mars.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer