Armadillo Aerospace drop test

We did the helicopter drop test of our X-Prize vehicle with parachute
system and crushable nose on Saturday. Full report, with lots of
video and images, at:

http://www.armadilloaerospace.com/n....ws?news_id=215

The vehicle oscillated under the parachute a bit more than we hoped
(+/- 13 degrees), which caused the vehicle to roll back up a bit after
landing, but overall it went well. We are going to make a few
modifications to improve things before the first free flight, which
should be in a couple months.

John Carmack
www.armadilloaerospace.com

Are you going to put a bigger spill hole in the canopy, or change the shroud
lengths?

John Carmack wrote:
We did the helicopter drop test of our X-Prize vehicle with parachute
system and crushable nose on Saturday.

Great video! Congratulations on your progress and I look forward to
reading about more of your exploits!

I have one question, though. If there had been a man in the vehicle
during that drop test, would he have been severely injured? The landing
looked rough-- much rougher than in the SA'03 nose cone test, for
instance.




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"M. Scott" wrote in message ...
John Carmack wrote:
We did the helicopter drop test of our X-Prize vehicle with parachute
system and crushable nose on Saturday.

Great video! Congratulations on your progress and I look forward to
reading about more of your exploits!

I have one question, though. If there had been a man in the vehicle
during that drop test, would he have been severely injured? The landing
looked rough-- much rougher than in the SA'03 nose cone test, for
instance.

The acceleration spikes were only 10G, which is not much of a problem
with a harness and padding. The roll-up-and-fall-back-down behavior
would certainly be pretty rough, so we hope to reduce that
behaviorwith some changes to the cabin top lip, the parachute, and the
tail supports.

The X-Prize could be had with the landing as-is.

John Carmack

(John Carmack) wrote in message
The vehicle oscillated under the parachute a bit more than we hoped
(+/- 13 degrees), which caused the vehicle to roll back up a bit after
landing, but overall it went well. We are going to make a few
modifications to improve things before the first free flight, which
should be in a couple months.

Hi John,

Just of curiosity, what's left? If you had the propellent, and threw
caution/testing/permission out the window, could you launch? I haven't
seen any pictures of the full-size engines, so maybe those aren't done
yet.

Certainly there is a lot of testing ahead, but is all the major
research basically done and it's a matter of fine tuning?

Tim

P.S. Congratulations on the successful test.

"John Carmack" wrote in message
om...
We did the helicopter drop test of our X-Prize vehicle with parachute
system and crushable nose on Saturday. Full report, with lots of
video and images, at:

http://www.armadilloaerospace.com/n....ws?news_id=215

The vehicle oscillated under the parachute a bit more than we hoped
(+/- 13 degrees), which caused the vehicle to roll back up a bit after
landing, but overall it went well. We are going to make a few
modifications to improve things before the first free flight, which
should be in a couple months.


Hi John,

Your vehicle looks a little small IMO, especially the
capsule-to-engine/propellant ratio seems a bit off.

(Tim Behrendsen) wrote in message . com...
(John Carmack) wrote in message
The vehicle oscillated under the parachute a bit more than we hoped
(+/- 13 degrees), which caused the vehicle to roll back up a bit after
landing, but overall it went well. We are going to make a few
modifications to improve things before the first free flight, which
should be in a couple months.

Hi John,

Just of curiosity, what's left? If you had the propellent, and threw
caution/testing/permission out the window, could you launch? I haven't
seen any pictures of the full-size engines, so maybe those aren't done
yet.

Certainly there is a lot of testing ahead, but is all the major
research basically done and it's a matter of fine tuning?

Tim

P.S. Congratulations on the successful test.

Our 2' diameter subscale vehicle is ready to test almost all the
primary required systems -- servo valve differential throttling (as
opposed to the solenoid based differential throttling used on our
previous systems), drogue cannon stabilization after burnout, and main
canopy release at a particular altitude. We should also be able to
fly that transonic. We would have flown it by now if our propellant
issues were resolved.

We have had a ~5,000 lbf engine basically ready to fire for something
like eight months, but we have been conserving propellant.

We have a final (we hope) list of demands from FMC for buying 90%
peroxide, but it will take a notable amount of money and effort to
comply. We are still holding out hope that our mixed propellant
schemes work out, which would get FMC out of the loop, at least until
we need to by tank car loads of 50%. We should have some new tests on
that this weekend.

There are lots of little bits that still need to be developed, but we
don't see show-stoppers. When the big vehicle leaves the ground under
its own power, a lot of people will think we are very very close, but
it could still take a year after that to get everything really worked
out.

I am expecting to have to do a half dozen flights of the subscale
vehicle, a half dozen pre-launch-license flights of the big vehicle,
then up to ten launch licensed flights of the big vehicle to end with
the two X-Prize flights. This will take quite a bit of time, and I
still consider it a very good chance that we will completely destroy a
vehicle sometime along the way, forcing a rebuilding period.

Our launch license application may be the gating factor. Even getting
an environmental impact statement at White Sands Missile Range, where
they have done all this many times before, has been quoted at taking
$250,000 and not be finished until August of next year, which is
absurd. An EIS is a prerequisite for a launch license, which can take
six months longer. The default proposed timeline for a launch license
didn't have us launching until after the X-Prize expired. We
obviously hope to be able to compress this.

John Carmack

(John Carmack) wrote in message
Our launch license application may be the gating factor. Even getting
an environmental impact statement at White Sands Missile Range, where
they have done all this many times before, has been quoted at taking
$250,000 and not be finished until August of next year, which is
absurd. An EIS is a prerequisite for a launch license, which can take
six months longer. The default proposed timeline for a launch license
didn't have us launching until after the X-Prize expired. We
obviously hope to be able to compress this.

Sheesh, what a rip-off.

How about heading south and doing things in Mexico? Much less
convenient, obviously, but I would imagine $250K would buy a lot of
"licenses" down there. Lots of open space, too. Transporting the
peroxide might be a bit tricky, though.

Maybe just the threat of launching in a different country might shake
loose your local congressman/senators.

"Ultimate Buu" wrote in message .. .
"John Carmack" wrote in message
om...
We did the helicopter drop test of our X-Prize vehicle with parachute
system and crushable nose on Saturday. Full report, with lots of
video and images, at:

http://www.armadilloaerospace.com/n....ws?news_id=215

The vehicle oscillated under the parachute a bit more than we hoped
(+/- 13 degrees), which caused the vehicle to roll back up a bit after
landing, but overall it went well. We are going to make a few
modifications to improve things before the first free flight, which
should be in a couple months.


Hi John,

Your vehicle looks a little small IMO, especially the
capsule-to-engine/propellant ratio seems a bit off.

Only because you are used to looking at orbital rockets, which impart
6x+ the velocity. Final propellant choice is still somewhat up in the
air, so we may yet wind up with a longer tank. The current vehicle
has a mass ratio of 4.5 with a full 850 gallon tank, which will make
it if we get our mixed monoprop system working well. If not, we need
to use a 1600 gallon tank fabricated in carbon fiber, which brings the
vehicle mass ratio to 7.6, allowing it to make it on monoprop
peroxide.

John Carmack

(John Carmack) :

(Tim Behrendsen) wrote in message
. com...
(John Carmack) wrote in message
The vehicle oscillated under the parachute a bit more than we hoped
(+/- 13 degrees), which caused the vehicle to roll back up a bit after
landing, but overall it went well. We are going to make a few
modifications to improve things before the first free flight, which
should be in a couple months.

Hi John,

Just of curiosity, what's left? If you had the propellent, and threw
caution/testing/permission out the window, could you launch? I haven't
seen any pictures of the full-size engines, so maybe those aren't done
yet.

Certainly there is a lot of testing ahead, but is all the major
research basically done and it's a matter of fine tuning?

Tim

P.S. Congratulations on the successful test.

Our 2' diameter subscale vehicle is ready to test almost all the
primary required systems -- servo valve differential throttling (as
opposed to the solenoid based differential throttling used on our
previous systems), drogue cannon stabilization after burnout, and main
canopy release at a particular altitude. We should also be able to
fly that transonic. We would have flown it by now if our propellant
issues were resolved.

Wow, to think you are being held back only because of a lack of fuel.

We have had a ~5,000 lbf engine basically ready to fire for something
like eight months, but we have been conserving propellant.

About 20 liters of peroxide a second? How much run time do you need to test
this engine properly?

We have a final (we hope) list of demands from FMC for buying 90%
peroxide, but it will take a notable amount of money and effort to
comply. We are still holding out hope that our mixed propellant
schemes work out, which would get FMC out of the loop, at least until
we need to by tank car loads of 50%. We should have some new tests on
that this weekend.

Can you say how much all thier demands have cost so far?

There are lots of little bits that still need to be developed, but we
don't see show-stoppers. When the big vehicle leaves the ground under
its own power, a lot of people will think we are very very close, but
it could still take a year after that to get everything really worked
out.

Well, you are putting a human being in the final design, better safer to do a
number of test flights than be sorry. And you already have seen lots of
crashes for many diffirent reasons. Better to be safe.

I am expecting to have to do a half dozen flights of the subscale
vehicle, a half dozen pre-launch-license flights of the big vehicle,
then up to ten launch licensed flights of the big vehicle to end with
the two X-Prize flights. This will take quite a bit of time, and I
still consider it a very good chance that we will completely destroy a
vehicle sometime along the way, forcing a rebuilding period.

I wish I had the money to rebuild like you do. Personally I have made very
little progress because I can't afford a large number of rebuilds of even my
old engine designs. One very great thing about your website is that you show
the failures as well as the successes along the way.

Our launch license application may be the gating factor. Even getting
an environmental impact statement at White Sands Missile Range, where
they have done all this many times before, has been quoted at taking
$250,000 and not be finished until August of next year, which is
absurd. An EIS is a prerequisite for a launch license, which can take
six months longer. The default proposed timeline for a launch license
didn't have us launching until after the X-Prize expired. We
obviously hope to be able to compress this.

AAAAARRRRHHH! How are we going to develop CATS when the paperwork itself
ends up costing more than the other marginal costs of the flight?

John Carmack

Earl Colby Pottinger

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