"Why do you have a right to your money?"

On 2/14/2012 11:14 AM, Paul Schlyter wrote:
On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 11:22:15 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
2) China and North Vietnam are not our friends.

You're living in the past. North Vietnam ceased to exist as a nation
some 35 years ago. Today we have Vietnam.

And I'm happy I don't live in a country which forbids me to travel to
some countries....

I never thought it made any sense that the US would forbid its citizens
from traveling to some other countries. It reeks of insecurity.

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 07:17:52 -0800, Larry wrote:

In article ,
says...

Yet what is their money being used for? Does it sit in a vault
somewhere? Or is it being actively used for building factories, goods
and services and providing jobs?

Im interested in your take on this subject.

The primary place the money is being used is lending it to the federal
government, where it does nothing. The reason the feds are borrowing all that
money is that nobody wants to pay taxes, so the whole country is selling
itself into debtor's prison.


The primary place? Can you provide cites to that claim?

Do you even live in the 21st century? The Federal Reserve loans money to
member banks at 0.25%. The member banks have to securitize the money, so they
buy treasury bonds at 3.75% to 4%. This lets the Federal Reserve loan more
money to the banks at 0.25%. It's a neat little scam that endlessly increases
the money supply, which all ends up doing nobody any good except for a few
bankers who get 7 and 8 figure annual bonuses. Meanwhile those same banks
just laid off 10,000 workers. They don't need to do customer service any
more, because customers are irrelevant.

The second place the money goes is to countries like China and Viet Nam,
where they can build immensely profitable factories by hiring workers at
slave wages. For example the profit margin on the iPhone is 60%. The other
40% goes to China, where the Chinese are ready to ream us into servitude.

What..you are not supporting your Communist buddies? Now about those
slave wages...how come so many Chinese are now driving automobiles and
China is considered the worlds primary selling venue for luxury items?
Slave wages? How can they afford all those cars, computers, luxury items
and so forth?

Just like in the USA, it's not the factory workers who can afford the luxury
items.

There is no virtue in building vast fortunes. They are treasonous. If you
defend that, you are nothing but a sucker holding out your wrists for the
shackles.

Tell that to Carnagie, Mellon..and Nancy Pelosi.....laugh laugh laugh!!

You should learn a little history. Carnegie gave away his fortune because he
was consumed by guilt for what he had done to earn it. He found accumulating
that much wealth to be immoral.

What a ****witted moron you are.

If some old lady in a trailer park collects 400 cats, we call her a nut case.
If a banker in a suit collects more money than he can ever use, you think
it's admirable. He's just a well dressed nut case. You, OTOH, are a slovenly
nut case who needs to stay away from booze.

In article ,
says...

On 2/13/2012 10:16 PM, Larry wrote:
In ,
says...

So if I invest hummm.. a million dollars in something..and I get 1/4
million a year back as my dividend...is it or is it not working?

Tell ya what, if you pay all the earned income taxes on it,

What the **** is "earned income taxes", ****wit? It's bull****, that's
what it is - a bull**** fabricated term.

http://www.progress.org/barnes21.htm

Not the brightest bulb on the billboard, are you?

On 2/15/2012 12:10 AM, Larry wrote:
In ,
says...

On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 07:17:52 -0800, wrote:

In ,
says...

Yet what is their money being used for? Does it sit in a vault
somewhere? Or is it being actively used for building factories, goods
and services and providing jobs?

Im interested in your take on this subject.

The primary place the money is being used is lending it to the federal
government, where it does nothing. The reason the feds are borrowing all that
money is that nobody wants to pay taxes, so the whole country is selling
itself into debtor's prison.


The primary place? Can you provide cites to that claim?

Do you even live in the 21st century? The Federal Reserve loans money to
member banks at 0.25%. The member banks have to securitize the money,

No. That's not what happens.

On 2/15/2012 12:10 AM, Larry wrote:
In articleAsSdnfUgwZ9Al6fSnZ2dnUVZ5tCdnZ2d@giganews. com,
says...

On 2/13/2012 10:16 PM, Larry wrote:
In ,
says...

So if I invest hummm.. a million dollars in something..and I get 1/4
million a year back as my dividend...is it or is it not working?

Tell ya what, if you pay all the earned income taxes on it,

What the **** is "earned income taxes", ****wit? It's bull****, that's
what it is - a bull**** fabricated term.

http://www.progress.org/barnes21.htm

"Assuming that unearned income is operationally defined as all income
other than that earned through labor..." BZZZZZTTT! Bull****.

You cite a bull**** left-wing crackpot as a source, and expect to be
taken seriously; unbelievable.

On Feb 14, 11:06*am, George Plimpton wrote:
On 2/14/2012 3:29 AM, wrote:





On Feb 14, 2:18 am, George *wrote:
On 2/13/2012 10:14 PM, Larry wrote:

In ,
says...

So if I invest hummm.. a million dollars in something..and I get 1/4
million a year back as my dividend...is it or is it not working?

No, you are just mooching off of other people's work.

How is investing in capital and enjoying the return therefrom "mooching
off of other people's work"? *It isn't that at all. *You fundamentally
don't understand a capitalist economy.

Capital makes workers more productive. *Dig a trench for an hour, with
your bare hands - i.e., pure labor. *How much can you dig? *Not much.
Now, I - the capitalist - provide you with a shovel, a shovel that cost
me money. *How much can you dig in an hour? *A lot more than you could
with your bare hands. *How much more are you paid? *Quite a lot more -
you got more work done. *What am I paid? *Something - I own the shovel,
and I deserve a return on it.

Capitalism does not "exploit" the laborer - far from it. *Capitalism
rewards the laborer far more for a given amount of time than he possibly
could earn without the use of the capital. *It further rewards the
laborer in that he is paid his higher wage earlier than he would receive
*any* wage otherwise - capitalists pay their workers when they complete
their work, not when the capitalist receives payment for the finished
product.

A return to capital does not represent "mooching" off anyone's work -
this is settled.

The capitalist not only deserves a profit for providing the shovels,
but also for knowing how many shovels to provide, knowing where to
dig, or for that matter knowing whether to dig at all.

You're mixing up two separate functions.

No.

*What you're describing is
entrepreneurship and management.

No.

The same person or entity may perform
both the provision of capital and the management of its use,

Yes.

but
economic analysis of the firm treats the two as separate functions.

Irrelevant.

A construction company that buys equipment such as shovels for its
employees to use, but not to own, is capitalist.

A store that stocks shovels for people to buy is capitalist.

A company that rents out shovels is capitalist.

A company that owns a factory where shovels are made is capitalist.

If the owners, investors or stockholders of companies in any of the
above examples become filthy rich by providing a product or service
that is in demand, great.

People can work on the construction crew, in the stores, in the
factories or just sit back and invest their dough in any of the above
and earn some money.

People who need shovels can get them more cheaply and easily.

On Feb 16, 2:39*am, whensenseless@botmail scribbled:

A construction company that buys equipment such as shovels for its
employees to use, but not to own, is capitalist.

A store that stocks shovels for people to buy is capitalist.

A company that rents out shovels is capitalist.

A company that owns a factory where shovels are made is capitalist.

If the owners, investors or stockholders of companies in any of the
above examples become filthy rich by providing a product or service
that is in demand, great.

People can work on the construction crew, in the stores, in the
factories or just sit back and invest their dough in any of the above
and earn some money.

People who need shovels can get them more cheaply and easily.

The latter is not necessarily true:

"Filthy rich" indicates that excessive profits are being made. Thereby
forcing up the price of shovels beyond the merely affordable. Or
"filthy rich" can indicate a monopoly on shovel production. Again
forcing prices higher than necessary. Shovel futures speculation can
also force up the price of shovels.

It's odd how nobody sees any of the above in the same light as an
inefficient communist system of shovel production with all its
wasteful overheads and low productivity. Both capitalist and communist
systems can make shovels unnecessarily expensive! There are far too
many layers between steel production and shovel purchase.

So, buy quality, secondhand shovels from thrift shops or garage sales
and do your own digging. Thereby cutting out the greedy middle men,
maintaining personal fitness and extending one's digging life. Some
people drive into the city, to pay the price of a secondhand shovel,
per hour, to sweat in a stinky, indoor gym. ;-)

Larry wrote:

There are ways to use cats to make more cats. That is often what happens when
someone has extra cats.


That's the same way that we get surplus liberals.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

"Chris.B" wrote

It's odd how nobody sees any of the above in the same light as an
inefficient communist system of shovel production with all its
wasteful overheads and low productivity. Both capitalist and communist
systems can make shovels unnecessarily expensive! There are far too
many layers between steel production and shovel purchase.

This isn't logic, just an elaborate fabrication to rationalize confiscating
whatever you envy but can't create or pay for yourself, after demonizing its
owners to 'prove' they don't deserve it (and you do). It's the argument
pagan barbarians once used to justify pillaging a city. We have
unintentionally spawned a similar Godless society-rejecting subclass that
isn't content with equal opportunity and demands a looting spree masked as
Social Justice.

Whenever the barbarians gained control a Dark Age followed.

On Feb 16, 12:47*pm, "Chris.B" wrote:
On Feb 16, 2:39*am, whensenseless@botmail scribbled:







A construction company that buys equipment such as shovels for its
employees to use, but not to own, is capitalist.

A store that stocks shovels for people to buy is capitalist.

A company that rents out shovels is capitalist.

A company that owns a factory where shovels are made is capitalist.

If the owners, investors or stockholders of companies in any of the
above examples become filthy rich by providing a product or service
that is in demand, great.

People can work on the construction crew, in the stores, in the
factories or just sit back and invest their dough in any of the above
and earn some money.

People who need shovels can get them more cheaply and easily.

The latter is not necessarily true:

"Filthy rich" indicates that excessive profits are being made. Thereby
forcing up the price of shovels beyond the merely affordable. Or
"filthy rich" can indicate a monopoly on shovel production. Again
forcing prices higher than necessary. Shovel futures speculation can
also force up the price of shovels.

It's odd how nobody sees any of the above in the same light as an
inefficient communist system of shovel production with all its
wasteful overheads and low productivity. Both capitalist and communist
systems can make shovels unnecessarily expensive! There are far too
many layers between steel production and shovel purchase.

So, buy quality, secondhand shovels from thrift shops or garage sales
and do your own digging. Thereby cutting out the greedy middle men,
maintaining personal fitness and extending one's digging life. Some
people drive into the city, to pay the price of a secondhand shovel,
per hour, to sweat in a stinky, indoor gym. ;-)