Fill'er up -- Where did the RP-1, LOX 7 H2 come from?

The otherwise exceptional "Moonport" does not discuss
where the massive quantities of propellants needed
came from.

I infer there were no plants built on-site, but it had to come from
somewhere, by rail I'd assume.

Any suggestions as to where to look for details?

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

OM wrote in
:

On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 06:58:26 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
wrote:

The otherwise exceptional "Moonport" does not discuss
where the massive quantities of propellants needed
came from.

...Well, for starters, there were these LH trees down Jamaica that had
to be properly cultivated, while the LOX came from this Cocoa Beach
delicatessen. The RP-1 was provided by the Moonshine Growers
Association of Georgia as a contribution to the effort to beat the
Russians and preserve the Moonshine industry for mankind by preventing
the commies from taking over and forcing them to grow Vodka instead.

Thank you, RJ...er, OM. I'm sure that's an answer some of our
more squirrelly regulars can comprehend and endorse.

Now I'll do my Verne-answer:

LOX is manufactured by fractional cryogenic distillation of
air, raw materials being air and electricity to run compressors
and heat exchangers. There's a plant in nearby Mims; delivery
is by insulated tank truck now, might have been by rail then. It's
common to see trucks of LOX and LN2 and other cryogenic gases in most
big cities.

LH2 is manufactured in Louisana or thereabouts by steam reduction
of natural gas; liquification is similar to LOX production
but more energy-intensive. Delivery by (highly) insulated tank
truck. Petroleum industry uses LOTS of hydrogen, much more than
NASA, but generally in gaseous form I think.

RP-1 is manufactured by the petroleum industry to specification
just like regular kerosene (fractional distillation of petroleum),
but with additional steps to provide purity (specific HC molecular
chains and very low contaminants). Delivery probably by truck or
by rail from where-ever.

Storage of cryogens is obviously short-term, so production is
more or less continuous and delivered as needed. RP-1 is probably
much more long-term storable.

--Damon

Damon Hill writes:


LOX is manufactured by fractional cryogenic distillation of
air, raw materials being air and electricity to run compressors
and heat exchangers. There's a plant in nearby Mims; delivery
is by insulated tank truck now, might have been by rail then. It's
common to see trucks of LOX and LN2 and other cryogenic gases in most
big cities.

Sure it is, but a truck or two won't do the job we're discussing. But
then, an underground pipeline of any length would be ...interesting....

A railcar seems to hold about 10,000 gallons...

LH2 is manufactured in Louisana or thereabouts by steam reduction
of natural gas; liquification is similar to LOX production
but more energy-intensive. Delivery by (highly) insulated tank
truck. Petroleum industry uses LOTS of hydrogen, much more than
NASA, but generally in gaseous form I think.




RP-1 is manufactured by the petroleum industry to specification
just like regular kerosene (fractional distillation of petroleum),

I agree that kerosene is easy...by comparison. And it's not a
that much -- I worked at a tank farm where we had ~9E6 gallons
of Kero on hand on any day...

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

David Lesher wrote in news:h5ngi1$3m$1
@reader1.panix.com:

Damon Hill writes:


LOX is manufactured by fractional cryogenic distillation of
air, raw materials being air and electricity to run compressors
and heat exchangers. There's a plant in nearby Mims; delivery
is by insulated tank truck now, might have been by rail then. It's
common to see trucks of LOX and LN2 and other cryogenic gases in most
big cities.

Sure it is, but a truck or two won't do the job we're discussing. But
then, an underground pipeline of any length would be ...interesting....

A cryogenic pipeline even more interesting.

A railcar seems to hold about 10,000 gallons...

Yeah, it's a fleet of tank trucks, both for LOX and LH2. I watched
one campaign in late 2000 where truck after truck trundled down to
Titusville and over to the Shuttle launch complex from the Mims
facility. Might have been ten or more trucks hauling oxidizer, but
still only a small part of the total industry fleet of cryo tanker
trucks.

--Damon

On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 14:52:56 -0500, Damon Hill
wrote:

LH2 is manufactured in Louisana or thereabouts by steam reduction
of natural gas;

What is the energy balance on getting Hydrogen this way?
--
Replace you know what by j to email

Jud McCranie wrote in
:

On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 14:52:56 -0500, Damon Hill
wrote:

LH2 is manufactured in Louisana or thereabouts by steam reduction
of natural gas;

What is the energy balance on getting Hydrogen this way?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_production

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_reforming

From this source, about 80% efficiency which is significantly
better than by electrolysis and easier to produce clean
hydrogen than by reforming coal or crude oil.


--Damon