Record breaking rocket flight. I am surprised

http://www.space.com/missionlaunches...or_flight.html

I really can not believe that this really is a record. Surely during
WW2 some of the German Komet rocket planes must have landed at
alternative airfields. Can someone confirm that this never happened.
It might have been a forced landing but it would still count.

I still think this might make an interesting competition to have timed
records for the quickest flight between two airports at various
distances.
How long before a private spacecraft/rocket plane does a London to New
York flight faster than Concorde ?
By going out of the atmosphere it will probably result in an efficient
flight from a fuel use as well.

In article . com,
wrote:
I really can not believe that this really is a record. Surely during
WW2 some of the German Komet rocket planes must have landed at
alternative airfields. Can someone confirm that this never happened.
It might have been a forced landing but it would still count.

No, it doesn't count unless they actually *file a claim* for a record.
Oddly enough, wartime fighter operations seldom bother doing the paperwork
for that...

Nobody has claimed that XCOR did anything that couldn't have been done
long ago. It's just that nobody quite got around to doing it.
--
spsystems.net is temporarily off the air; | Henry Spencer
mail to henry at zoo.utoronto.ca instead. |

No, it doesn't count unless they actually *file a claim* for a record.
Oddly enough, wartime fighter operations seldom bother doing the paperwork
for that...

Nobody has claimed that XCOR did anything that couldn't have been done
long ago. It's just that nobody quite got around to doing it.

And is it too late to file the claim now if they have written verified
documentation of the flight.

In article .com,
wrote:
No, it doesn't count unless they actually *file a claim* for a record...

And is it too late to file the claim now if they have written verified
documentation of the flight.

Remember that just because they wrote a document saying they did it, that
doesn't constitute verification. :-) I think it would require, at the
very least, a third-party record of both ends of the flight... which seems
unlikely to be available for wartime fighter flights, since the
authorities of the time would probably have considered it espionage.

And speaking of the authorities of the time, it would presumably have to
be the German government filing the claim, and I suspect they would not be
keen on filing for a record set under the Nazi regime.
--
spsystems.net is temporarily off the air; | Henry Spencer
mail to henry at zoo.utoronto.ca instead. |

Henry Spencer wrote:
In article .com,
wrote:
No, it doesn't count unless they actually *file a claim* for a record...

And is it too late to file the claim now if they have written verified
documentation of the flight.

Remember that just because they wrote a document saying they did it, that
doesn't constitute verification. :-) I think it would require, at the
very least, a third-party record of both ends of the flight... which seems
unlikely to be available for wartime fighter flights, since the
authorities of the time would probably have considered it espionage.

Gun camera footage?
Was there any?

In article ,
Ian Stirling wrote:

Henry Spencer wrote:
In article .com,
wrote:
No, it doesn't count unless they actually *file a claim* for a record...

And is it too late to file the claim now if they have written verified
documentation of the flight.

Remember that just because they wrote a document saying they did it, that
doesn't constitute verification. :-) I think it would require, at the
very least, a third-party record of both ends of the flight... which seems
unlikely to be available for wartime fighter flights, since the
authorities of the time would probably have considered it espionage.

Gun camera footage?
Was there any?

I don't know what the FAI rules were in 1940, but as a glider pilot I
have some knowledge of what evidence the FAI require for badges now.
These include:

- a pre-flight declaration of what you are going to attempt to do

- a sealed barograph (altimeter that records a trace onto typically
smoked aluminium foil), to prove that the flight was uninterrupted,
placed in the aircraft such that it is in accessable to the pilot in
flight

- an FAI Official Observer to personally observe and sign the
declaration, make and sign the seal on the barograph, and observe the
takeoff to ensure that the declaration, pilot, aircraft, recording
apparatus and date and time and place of takeoff are all matched up in
the manner claimed.

- an FAI Official Observer to personally witness the landing and certify
the date and time and place of landing, inspect the seal on the
barograph and take posession of the trace and generally make sure that
the pilot, aircraft etc are all still matched up in the manner claimed.


You can't just go and make some random flight and then claim it for a
badge, let alone for a world record. Plenty of extremely good flights
where no one really doubts that the pilot did what he set out to do have
been disallowed for technical reasons.

--
Bruce | 41.1670S | \ spoken | -+-
Hoult | 174.8263E | /\ here. | ----------O----------

In article ,
Ian Stirling wrote:
...a third-party record of both ends of the flight... which seems
unlikely to be available for wartime fighter flights...

Gun camera footage? Was there any?

Probably, but that tends to be a record of the middle of the flight,
not the ends. :-)
--
spsystems.net is temporarily off the air; | Henry Spencer
mail to henry at zoo.utoronto.ca instead. |

Henry Spencer wrote:
In article ,
Ian Stirling wrote:

...a third-party record of both ends of the flight... which seems
unlikely to be available for wartime fighter flights...

Gun camera footage? Was there any?


Probably, but that tends to be a record of the middle of the flight,
not the ends. :-)

Well, usually it isn't a record of both ends, but often is
of one end.


Alain Fournier

So lets ignore whether it was oficially recorded as a record or not.
What is the longest flight achieved by a rocket plane where the
complete plane minus fuel makes the whole flight. (This might dis-allow
the Me-163 anyway because of the take-off dolly, so we will say 90% of
airframe weight makes the flight to allow this.)
To dis-allow pure rockets some kind of wings must be used.