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Water in Electric Field: Miracle of Miracles!



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 27th 17, 05:36 PM posted to sci.astro
Pentcho Valev
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Posts: 8,078
Default Water in Electric Field: Miracle of Miracles!

In an electric field water (or any other dielectric liquid) can rise and do work, e.g. by lifting floating weights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6KAH1JpdPg
Liquid Dielectric Capacitor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muXqn76eX0I
Chapter 11.6.2 (demo only): Force on a Liquid Dielectric

The crucial question is:

The work (lifting floating weights) will be done at the expense of what energy?

Obviously the correct answer is not "electric energy" - the capacitor is not an electric motor. Then the only possible answer remains "ambient heat". The system is a heat engine violating the second law of thermodynamics!

Here is vigorous motion of water in an electric field, obviously able to produce work - e.g. by rotating a waterwheel:

"The Formation of the Floating Water Bridge including electric breakdowns"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17UD1goTFhQ

"The water movement is bidirectional, i.e., it simultaneously flows in both directions." https://www.wetsus.nl/home/wetsus-ne...n-innovation/1

The work (rotating a waterwheel) will be done at the expense of what energy? The first hypothesis that comes to mind is:

At the expense of electric energy. The system is, essentially, an electric motor.

However close inspection would suggest that the hypothesis is untenable. Scientists use triply distilled water to reduce the conductivity and the electric current passing through the system to minimum. If, for some reason, the current is increased, the motion stops - such system cannot be an electric motor.

If the system is not an electric motor, then it is a heat engine violating the second law of thermodynamics. Here arguments describing such heat engines as impossible, idiotic, etc. are irrelevant - the following conditional is valid:

IF THE SYSTEM IS NOT AN ELECTRIC MOTOR, then it is a a heat engine violating the second law of thermodynamics.

In other words, if the work is not done at the expense of electric energy, it is done at the expense of ambient heat. No third source of energy is conceivable.

Pentcho Valev
  #2  
Old September 28th 17, 08:53 AM posted to sci.astro
Pentcho Valev
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Posts: 8,078
Default Water in Electric Field: Miracle of Miracles!

In an electric field, water develops a specific pressure that pushes in all directions and can result in an eternal (limited only by the deterioration of the system) motion, on condition that the system provides suitable channels for water to move through. If, in the simplest case, two opposite charges immersed in water are close enough to attract each other, the specific pressure that develops between them counteracts the force of attraction and the latter apparently decreases:

Wolfgang K. H. Panofsky, Melba Phillips, Classical Electricity and Magnetism, pp.115-116: "Thus the decrease in force that is experienced between two charges when they are immersed in a dielectric liquid can be understood only by considering the effect of the PRESSURE OF THE LIQUID ON THE CHARGES themselves." http://www.amazon.com/Classical-Elec...iglink21401-20

"However, in experiments in which a capacitor is submerged in a dielectric liquid the force per unit area exerted by one plate on another is observed to decrease... [...] This apparent paradox can be explained by taking into account the DIFFERENCE IN LIQUID PRESSURE in the field filled space between the plates and the field free region outside the capacitor." http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teachin...es/node46.html

Tai Chow, Introduction to Electromagnetic Theory: A Modern Perspective, p. 267: "The strictly electric forces between charges on the conductors are not influenced by the presence of the dielectric medium. The medium is polarized, however, and the interaction of the electric field with the polarized medium results in an INCREASED FLUID PRESSURE ON THE CONDUCTORS that reduces the net forces acting on them." http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-T.../dp/0763738271

The specific pressure that develops in water placed in an electric field is NON-CONSERVATIVE. This means that, if suitably harnessed, the pressure will do work AT THE EXPENSE OF AMBIENT HEAT (in violation of the second law of thermodynamics).

The emergence of a non-conservative force in an electrostatic system where all crucial forces are conservative (electrical) by definition is awkward and scientists are often at a loss to know how to deal with it:

Introduction to Electromagnetic Theory: A Modern Perspective, Tai Chow, p. 267: "Calculations of the forces between charged conductors immersed in a liquid dielectric always show that the force is reduced by the factor K. There is a tendency to think of this as representing a reduction in the electrical forces between the charges on the conductors, as though Coulomb's law for the interaction of two charges should have the dielectric constant included in its denominator. This is incorrect, however. The strictly electric forces between charges on the conductors are not influenced by the presence of the dielectric medium. The medium is polarized, however, and the interaction of the electric field with the polarized medium results in an increased fluid pressure on the conductors that reduces the net forces acting on them." https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-.../dp/0763738271

Classical Electricity and Magnetism: Second Edition (Dover Books on Physics), Wolfgang K. H. Panofsky, Melba Phillips, p. 114: "This means that if a system maintained at constant charge is totally surrounded by a dielectric liquid all mechanical forces will drop in the ratio 1/k. A factor 1/k is frequently included in the expression for Coulomb's law to indicate this decrease in force. The physical significance of this reduction of force, which is required by energy considerations, is often somewhat mysterious. It is difficult to see on the basis of a field theory why the interaction between two charges should be dependent upon the nature or condition of the intervening material, and therefore the inclusion of an extra factor 1/k in Coulomb's law lacks a physical explanation." p.115: "Therefore the decrease in force [...] cannot be explained by electrical forces alone." pp.115-116: "Thus the decrease in force that is experienced between two charges when they are immersed in a dielectric liquid can be understood only by considering the effect of the pressure of the liquid on the charges themselves. In accordance with the philosophy of the action-at-a-distance theory, no change in the purely electrical interaction between the charges takes place." https://www.amazon.com/Classical-Ele.../dp/0486439240

Pentcho Valev
  #3  
Old September 28th 17, 06:02 PM posted to sci.astro
Pentcho Valev
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Posts: 8,078
Default Water in Electric Field: Miracle of Miracles!

A non-conservative force (pressure) emerges when water is placed in an electric field:

http://electron6.phys.utk.edu/Physic...electrics.html
"A plane capacitor with rectangular plates is fixed in a vertical position.. [...] The capacitor is charged and disconnected from the battery. [...] The lower part of the capacitor is now brought into contact with a dielectric liquid:

http://electron6.phys.utk.edu/Physic...ges/Image4.gif

When the plates contact the liquid's surface, a force in the upward direction is exerted on the dielectric liquid. The total charge on each plate remains constant and there is no energy transferred to the system from outside.." [END OF QUOTATION]

There IS energy transferred to the system from outside - the rising water can do work, e.g. by lifting a floating weight - and this energy can only be AMBIENT HEAT.

What is the molecular mechanism behind the effect? Here is a schematic presentation of water dipoles in the electrical field:

http://www.gsjournal.net/old/valev/val2.gif

If it were not for the indicated (with an arrow) dipole, other dipoles in the picture are perfectly polarized as if there were no thermal motion. Of course, this is an oversimplification – thermal motion is a factor which constantly disturbs the polarization order. The crucial point is that, as can be inferred from the picture, any thermal disturbance contributes to the creation of a pressure between the plates. Consider the indicated dipole. It has just received a strong thermal stroke and undergone rotation. As a result, it pushes adjacent dipoles electrostatically, towards the plates. Macroscopically, the sum of all such disturbances is expressed as a pressure exerted on the plates. One can also say, somewhat figuratively, that the indicated dipole has absorbed heat and now, by pushing adjacent dipoles, is trying to convert it into work.

Pentcho Valev
 




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