Alternative Facts predicted by Dr. Who 40 years ago

Razzmatazz:
Understanding what caused the divide in America may hold the key to our
future. If we don't fix this, we are in for a long period of decline.

"Researchers have long been confused by what seems like a paradox: many
people in America vote against their economic self-interests. Whether it's
the working class conservative who wants a tax cut for the wealthy, or a
member of the liberal elite who fights for safety nets that raise his own
taxes — we don't always act in the way that would help us the most.

In her new book, Strangers in Their Own Land, sociologist Arlie Hochschild
tackles this paradox. She says that while people might vote against their
economic needs, they're actually voting to serve their emotional needs.

Hochschild says that both conservative and liberals have "deep stories" —
about who they are, and what their values are. Deep stories don't need to be
completely accurate, but they have to feel true. They're the stories we tell
ourselves to capture our hopes, pride, disappointments, fears, and anxieties.

Hochschild spent years in Louisiana trying to understand the deep stories of
conservative, white, heterosexual, working-class Americans. Their deep story
focused on the American Dream: the idea that, if you work hard and play by
the rules, you can have a better life. But what happens when that dream
doesn't come true? When people see "line cutters" getting ahead while their
own lives don't seem to be going anywhere?"

From NPR article "Hidden Brain A conversation about life's unseen patterns"

I come from a coal patch (coal-mining town or a particular neighborhood
in such a town) in SW Pennsylvania, i.e., in Appalachia. I'm not
claiming to be Lincoln or the like. I was a top student in H.S., top
percentile in SAT and ACT. There was no family money for college and
there were no scholarships available, so I joined the Air Force to get
an education and "learn a trade." It worked.

Some of the people I grew up with still live in the patch and they are
as poor as, or poorer than, when I left in 1962. They voted for GW
Bush, McCain, Romney, and Trump, thinking that these were the people
who would wave a magic wand and lift them out of poverty.

I went up that way last fall from my home in Maryland (wealthiest state
in the Union by median household income
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_income). Met a
friend, also a top student, for coffee. He had not joined the military
after HS, but took a job in the steel mill (good pay) and waited to be
drafted as a ground-pounder in Vietnam. Parked my Lexus two blocks away
so he wouldn't see it, but he was on the lookout and spied it out.

"See you're driving a Lexus." "Yep." "Patch wasn't good enough for
you?" "Not so. It was more than good enough, a great place to grow up
and I'm glad that I had the luck to grow up here. But as an adult I
wanted something more than what our parents had. My dad was a laborer
in the mines like your dad. My parents never had enough money and they
didn't know how to manage what little they did have." "Wanted a Lexus
so you could lord it over us." "Wrong again. I parked it where you
wouldn't notice it, but you went looking to see what I was driving and
now you're clubbing me over the head with it. That's you lording it
over me, trying to make me look like some kind of elitist. I got half
of a $500 life insurance policy when my dad died. Except for that, my
wife and I worked damned hard for every penny we have. So where's the
elitist?" "You worked for the government." "I filled a position that
the people of the United States created. You could have had that job or
one like it. Or did what Mike down at the bottom of the patch did.
Joined the Navy, went to college on the GI Bill, got a good job with a
chemical company, made big money, far more than my government job paid,
retired in a very classy neighborhood in the Brandywine Valley in
Eastern Pa." "So how do you see us here in the patch today?" "My
cohort? The truth? I perceive that some of those who chose to stay here
want what I have but they didn't want to do what I had to do in order
to get it. And you‹maybe not you personally, but many of the people I
talk to here‹think it's my fault they are where they are, socially,
financially, even geographically." "We worked hard, too." "Yes, I know
you did, but you worked at the wrong thing at the wrong time in the
wrong place. I didn't know how this area would change anymore than most
people, but I knew that change would come. I knew that the coal and the
steel mills wouldn't last forever and that learning something different
was the key to the life I wanted. The change just came sooner than
anyone expected. And when it came your one skill was no use anymore so
you found yourself forced out early. We're not one percenters, my wife
and I, never meant to be‹just comfortable. As for the Lexus, where I
live no one buys a Lexus for prestige; nobody notices them because
they're as common as can be in my area. The Lexus is just a
comfortable, reliable, easy-to-drive geezer car. Besides, you look like
you're doing OK, got a union pension thanks to us liberals, got your
Social Security thanks to us liberals. Getting enough to eat, driving a
nice Ford. So what's the complaint? And what in the WORLD makes you
think that Trump knows what a worked-out coal patch is and wants to fix
your problems? There's a good chance he'll lower my taxes, and can you
guess who's going to pay for that." [No reply.]

And that's my deep story. I identify with these people, but sheesh!
They waited for it to come to them while I went out and got it. And
they blame me because they didn't adapt to change and the American
dream didn't come looking for them. They blame immigrants who are here
doing jobs they would never do.

I'm here trying to figure out what emotional need these people voted to
serve.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

On Friday, 27 January 2017 07:00:21 UTC+1, Davoud wrote:

And that's my deep story. I identify with these people, but sheesh!
They waited for it to come to them while I went out and got it. And
they blame me because they didn't adapt to change and the American
dream didn't come looking for them. They blame immigrants who are here
doing jobs they would never do.

I'm here trying to figure out what emotional need these people voted to
serve.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

History is not made by the stay-at-homes.
Nor the mental layabouts rocking on their well-worn, family porches.
Loyalty to one's class are the unbreakable chains of life-long detention.
The village mentality only has survival value where such things are still valued.

One's roots may be one's firm foundation.
But nobody expected the slab to remain bare.
One's education is one's scaffolding.
One's drive the upward gaze of what might be built.
One goals are to exceed the pinnacles of human achievement.
One's failures, merely life's valuable lessons in self-improvement.

There are many who leave home with their life's burden intact.
Snails who leave an indelible trail right back to their warm nest.
Their belongings the wind blown flotsam to which they cling desperately.
Their lives an an uncharted drift on a fearful ocean.
Not towards the distant light, but always away from the familiar.

Their tired, threadbare beliefs are their lifer's manacles.
Their sun-bleached superstitions are their unbreakable chains.
They ask not what they can do to make their shallow lives better.
But what can they take from others to make them enjoy less.
Anything goes to gain a better foothold on the ladder down to hell.

The neighborhood always has enough walking zombies.
The countless extras on the endless drabness of grey.
Where those who skip to another beat are mere fodder.
Prey to the accumulation of the tawdry ephemeral.
Which can be held up to show you are different?
Yet your tawdry, life's collection remains.

Those who with ordinary good luck will mature.
Beyond the mould into which they were cast.
Leaving all others in the dust of the foundry.
From which all living, clay figures are stamped.

Insecurity beckons the mindless weaklings.
To the schoolyard bully for strength.
Yet they forget that they once had an identity.
Before the bully, in their head, locked the gates.

Those who surround themselves with like minds.
Deny themselves any true mirror on life.
How will they recognise an opportunity or even themselves?
If the walls of their minds are all closed?
Would you live in a high apartment with huge windows?
With a clear view over all laid out below?
Or imprison yourself in your neighborhood?
Where childhood streets were once fabled to glow?

They say familiarity breeds contempt.
So why surround yourself with those you hold dear?
How do you measure your potential for improvement?
If all you have as a yardstick are losers?
Or do you value only the contemptible as friends?

On Friday, January 27, 2017 at 12:00:21 AM UTC-6, Davoud wrote:
Razzmatazz:
Understanding what caused the divide in America may hold the key to our
future. If we don't fix this, we are in for a long period of decline.

"Researchers have long been confused by what seems like a paradox: many
people in America vote against their economic self-interests. Whether it's
the working class conservative who wants a tax cut for the wealthy, or a
member of the liberal elite who fights for safety nets that raise his own
taxes — we don't always act in the way that would help us the most.

In her new book, Strangers in Their Own Land, sociologist Arlie Hochschild
tackles this paradox. She says that while people might vote against their
economic needs, they're actually voting to serve their emotional needs.

Hochschild says that both conservative and liberals have "deep stories" —
about who they are, and what their values are. Deep stories don't need to be
completely accurate, but they have to feel true. They're the stories we tell
ourselves to capture our hopes, pride, disappointments, fears, and anxieties.

Hochschild spent years in Louisiana trying to understand the deep stories of
conservative, white, heterosexual, working-class Americans. Their deep story
focused on the American Dream: the idea that, if you work hard and play by
the rules, you can have a better life. But what happens when that dream
doesn't come true? When people see "line cutters" getting ahead while their
own lives don't seem to be going anywhere?"

From NPR article "Hidden Brain A conversation about life's unseen patterns"

I come from a coal patch (coal-mining town or a particular neighborhood
in such a town) in SW Pennsylvania, i.e., in Appalachia. I'm not
claiming to be Lincoln or the like. I was a top student in H.S., top
percentile in SAT and ACT. There was no family money for college and
there were no scholarships available, so I joined the Air Force to get
an education and "learn a trade." It worked.

Some of the people I grew up with still live in the patch and they are
as poor as, or poorer than, when I left in 1962. They voted for GW
Bush, McCain, Romney, and Trump, thinking that these were the people
who would wave a magic wand and lift them out of poverty.

I went up that way last fall from my home in Maryland (wealthiest state
in the Union by median household income
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_income). Met a
friend, also a top student, for coffee. He had not joined the military
after HS, but took a job in the steel mill (good pay) and waited to be
drafted as a ground-pounder in Vietnam. Parked my Lexus two blocks away
so he wouldn't see it, but he was on the lookout and spied it out.

"See you're driving a Lexus." "Yep." "Patch wasn't good enough for
you?" "Not so. It was more than good enough, a great place to grow up
and I'm glad that I had the luck to grow up here. But as an adult I
wanted something more than what our parents had. My dad was a laborer
in the mines like your dad. My parents never had enough money and they
didn't know how to manage what little they did have." "Wanted a Lexus
so you could lord it over us." "Wrong again. I parked it where you
wouldn't notice it, but you went looking to see what I was driving and
now you're clubbing me over the head with it. That's you lording it
over me, trying to make me look like some kind of elitist. I got half
of a $500 life insurance policy when my dad died. Except for that, my
wife and I worked damned hard for every penny we have. So where's the
elitist?" "You worked for the government." "I filled a position that
the people of the United States created. You could have had that job or
one like it. Or did what Mike down at the bottom of the patch did.
Joined the Navy, went to college on the GI Bill, got a good job with a
chemical company, made big money, far more than my government job paid,
retired in a very classy neighborhood in the Brandywine Valley in
Eastern Pa." "So how do you see us here in the patch today?" "My
cohort? The truth? I perceive that some of those who chose to stay here
want what I have but they didn't want to do what I had to do in order
to get it. And you‹maybe not you personally, but many of the people I
talk to here‹think it's my fault they are where they are, socially,
financially, even geographically." "We worked hard, too." "Yes, I know
you did, but you worked at the wrong thing at the wrong time in the
wrong place. I didn't know how this area would change anymore than most
people, but I knew that change would come. I knew that the coal and the
steel mills wouldn't last forever and that learning something different
was the key to the life I wanted. The change just came sooner than
anyone expected. And when it came your one skill was no use anymore so
you found yourself forced out early. We're not one percenters, my wife
and I, never meant to be‹just comfortable. As for the Lexus, where I
live no one buys a Lexus for prestige; nobody notices them because
they're as common as can be in my area. The Lexus is just a
comfortable, reliable, easy-to-drive geezer car. Besides, you look like
you're doing OK, got a union pension thanks to us liberals, got your
Social Security thanks to us liberals. Getting enough to eat, driving a
nice Ford. So what's the complaint? And what in the WORLD makes you
think that Trump knows what a worked-out coal patch is and wants to fix
your problems? There's a good chance he'll lower my taxes, and can you
guess who's going to pay for that." [No reply.]

And that's my deep story. I identify with these people, but sheesh!
They waited for it to come to them while I went out and got it. And
they blame me because they didn't adapt to change and the American
dream didn't come looking for them. They blame immigrants who are here
doing jobs they would never do.

I'm here trying to figure out what emotional need these people voted to
serve.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

For me, money was never the goal in life. It was the pursuit of science that drove me from when I was a little kid to today and until the day I croak. I know all about poverty, having grown up in a small village in Europe after the devastation of WWII, coming to America as a refugee immigrant.

Parents had no money for college, my college days were spent studying during the day, bagging groceries and washing dishes at the restaurant, evenings and on the weekend, saving up for the next quarter's tuition. I was never worried about money even then when I usually had only maybe 4 quarters in my pocket. However, I did see the full-timers at the store and the restaurant who would spend their Friday evenings gambling their paychecks away on card games, and then having to answer to their wives the next morning. Not a great future in my opinion. As a part timer I put up with a lot of harassment from these clowns - they had the power but only for a while. My focus was on getting that engineering degree which would allow me to pursue my passion.

During the 5 years I spent at college, these were some of the happiest times for me, even though I was dirt poor and often had little or no money for anything other than sustenance and a roof over my head. I firmly believe that everyone should have the opportunity to experience the luxury of poverty during their youth so they are not distracted by the pursuit of money and stuff that money buys. In that atmosphere you can learn a lot and get a wider experience of what other people go thru. Just the experience of keeping a junk car on the road teaches you a lot about how to fix stuff, as well as the joy of combing thru junk yards looking for that elusive bracket you need for your car's alternator.

Razzy

On Friday, January 27, 2017 at 12:00:21 AM UTC-6, Davoud wrote:
Razzmatazz:
Understanding what caused the divide in America may hold the key to our
future. If we don't fix this, we are in for a long period of decline.

"Researchers have long been confused by what seems like a paradox: many
people in America vote against their economic self-interests. Whether it's
the working class conservative who wants a tax cut for the wealthy, or a
member of the liberal elite who fights for safety nets that raise his own
taxes — we don't always act in the way that would help us the most.

In her new book, Strangers in Their Own Land, sociologist Arlie Hochschild
tackles this paradox. She says that while people might vote against their
economic needs, they're actually voting to serve their emotional needs.

Hochschild says that both conservative and liberals have "deep stories" —
about who they are, and what their values are. Deep stories don't need to be
completely accurate, but they have to feel true. They're the stories we tell
ourselves to capture our hopes, pride, disappointments, fears, and anxieties.

Hochschild spent years in Louisiana trying to understand the deep stories of
conservative, white, heterosexual, working-class Americans. Their deep story
focused on the American Dream: the idea that, if you work hard and play by
the rules, you can have a better life. But what happens when that dream
doesn't come true? When people see "line cutters" getting ahead while their
own lives don't seem to be going anywhere?"

From NPR article "Hidden Brain A conversation about life's unseen patterns"

I come from a coal patch (coal-mining town or a particular neighborhood
in such a town) in SW Pennsylvania, i.e., in Appalachia. I'm not
claiming to be Lincoln or the like. I was a top student in H.S., top
percentile in SAT and ACT. There was no family money for college and
there were no scholarships available, so I joined the Air Force to get
an education and "learn a trade." It worked.

Some of the people I grew up with still live in the patch and they are
as poor as, or poorer than, when I left in 1962. They voted for GW
Bush, McCain, Romney, and Trump, thinking that these were the people
who would wave a magic wand and lift them out of poverty.

I went up that way last fall from my home in Maryland (wealthiest state
in the Union by median household income
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_income). Met a
friend, also a top student, for coffee. He had not joined the military
after HS, but took a job in the steel mill (good pay) and waited to be
drafted as a ground-pounder in Vietnam. Parked my Lexus two blocks away
so he wouldn't see it, but he was on the lookout and spied it out.

"See you're driving a Lexus." "Yep." "Patch wasn't good enough for
you?" "Not so. It was more than good enough, a great place to grow up
and I'm glad that I had the luck to grow up here. But as an adult I
wanted something more than what our parents had. My dad was a laborer
in the mines like your dad. My parents never had enough money and they
didn't know how to manage what little they did have." "Wanted a Lexus
so you could lord it over us." "Wrong again. I parked it where you
wouldn't notice it, but you went looking to see what I was driving and
now you're clubbing me over the head with it. That's you lording it
over me, trying to make me look like some kind of elitist. I got half
of a $500 life insurance policy when my dad died. Except for that, my
wife and I worked damned hard for every penny we have. So where's the
elitist?" "You worked for the government." "I filled a position that
the people of the United States created. You could have had that job or
one like it. Or did what Mike down at the bottom of the patch did.
Joined the Navy, went to college on the GI Bill, got a good job with a
chemical company, made big money, far more than my government job paid,
retired in a very classy neighborhood in the Brandywine Valley in
Eastern Pa." "So how do you see us here in the patch today?" "My
cohort? The truth? I perceive that some of those who chose to stay here
want what I have but they didn't want to do what I had to do in order
to get it. And you‹maybe not you personally, but many of the people I
talk to here‹think it's my fault they are where they are, socially,
financially, even geographically." "We worked hard, too." "Yes, I know
you did, but you worked at the wrong thing at the wrong time in the
wrong place. I didn't know how this area would change anymore than most
people, but I knew that change would come. I knew that the coal and the
steel mills wouldn't last forever and that learning something different
was the key to the life I wanted. The change just came sooner than
anyone expected. And when it came your one skill was no use anymore so
you found yourself forced out early. We're not one percenters, my wife
and I, never meant to be‹just comfortable. As for the Lexus, where I
live no one buys a Lexus for prestige; nobody notices them because
they're as common as can be in my area. The Lexus is just a
comfortable, reliable, easy-to-drive geezer car. Besides, you look like
you're doing OK, got a union pension thanks to us liberals, got your
Social Security thanks to us liberals. Getting enough to eat, driving a
nice Ford. So what's the complaint? And what in the WORLD makes you
think that Trump knows what a worked-out coal patch is and wants to fix
your problems? There's a good chance he'll lower my taxes, and can you
guess who's going to pay for that." [No reply.]

And that's my deep story. I identify with these people, but sheesh!
They waited for it to come to them while I went out and got it. And
they blame me because they didn't adapt to change and the American
dream didn't come looking for them. They blame immigrants who are here
doing jobs they would never do.

I'm here trying to figure out what emotional need these people voted to
serve.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

The bottom line is that many people are going to face a new reality, regardless of their political choices.

Technology aka robots, computers, smartphones, tablets and artificial intelligence is the cause of 2/3rds of American job losses. A global information age economy is relentless in naturally selecting the most fit survivors.

Since the 1980's, we increased factory output by 87% with one-third fewer workers and the replacement of humans with automation is accelerating. All those tax savings and company investments at Carrier will go to automation - those jobs saved - will disappear in a couple of years. Another 10-years and the truck drivers will disappear.

Poor public educational and vocational training is the American problem. And no Americans are more poorly educated and trained for the new job age economy than the white Americans who voted for Donald Trump. Particularly the white Americans living in the former Confederate States of America.

Steel making went from America to Asia and it is not coming back. Coal mining went from England to America to China, Australia. STEM education is led by Asian and European nations.

Rust is caused by oxidation of iron. No nation is more rusty red and failing than Trump's second most favorite nation Russia.

Davoud:
There was no family money for college...

Razzmatazz:
...my college days were spent studying during
the day, bagging groceries and washing dishes at the restaurant

Your town had a grocery store and a restaurant!?

I firmly believe that
everyone should have the opportunity to experience the luxury of poverty
during their youth so they are not distracted by the pursuit of money and
stuff that money buys...

I absolutely believe this; I wouldn't trade having grown up poor for
all of Bill Gates' fortune. Seriously. But I've given up telling my
over-privileged niece and nephew this; I fear they could damage a nerve
with their extreme eye rolling.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

On Friday, January 27, 2017 at 2:56:39 PM UTC-6, Davoud wrote:
Davoud:
There was no family money for college...

Razzmatazz:
...my college days were spent studying during
the day, bagging groceries and washing dishes at the restaurant

Your town had a grocery store and a restaurant!?

I firmly believe that
everyone should have the opportunity to experience the luxury of poverty
during their youth so they are not distracted by the pursuit of money and
stuff that money buys...

I absolutely believe this; I wouldn't trade having grown up poor for
all of Bill Gates' fortune. Seriously. But I've given up telling my
over-privileged niece and nephew this; I fear they could damage a nerve
with their extreme eye rolling.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

" Your town had a grocery store and a restaurant!?"

Well yes, my "town" was Rochester NY, which had lots of restaurants ;^))

But let me throw in a few other observations. We (Trump if you will) talk about the forgotten people, the workers who have not had substantial raises in many years. Yet those forgotten workers that I knew when I lived in Twinsburg, Ohio all had their Pickemup trucks, and a dozen fishing rods and still to this day lead a much grander life style than the truly forgotten.

By truly forgotten I mean the developmentally challenged who are placed in group homes away from the "normal" people. You never see them or have to think about them, but let me tell you, there are lots and lots of them. If they are lucky, they live in one of the facilities (example; http://www.milestone-inc-il.org/ContactUs.php) where my wife spent years as a speech pathologist and which we support financially. Or CASA (http://winnebagocountycasa..org/who-...t-is-casa.html) which handles children of people who are in trouble with the law, children who have no place to turn when the **** hits the fan.

There are dozens, perhaps hundreds of social services that operate behind the scenes, that the average person has no clue about, who indeed serve the truly forgotten, those nobody loves. I have very little sympathy for able bodied individuals that whine about being forgotten. Get off ass and do what needs to be done, and forget about politicians getting you a job.

On 1/27/17 8:21 AM, Razzmatazz wrote:

I was dirt poor and often had little or no money for anything other than sustenance and a roof over my head. I firmly believe that everyone should have the opportunity to experience the luxury of poverty during their youth so they are not distracted by the pursuit of money and stuff that money buys.
Problem is, down on the farm, nobody told me I was poor when I was a
kid, so I missed the lesson.

On Friday, January 27, 2017 at 7:04:00 PM UTC-6, lal_truckee wrote:
On 1/27/17 8:21 AM, Razzmatazz wrote:

I was dirt poor and often had little or no money for anything other than sustenance and a roof over my head. I firmly believe that everyone should have the opportunity to experience the luxury of poverty during their youth so they are not distracted by the pursuit of money and stuff that money buys.
Problem is, down on the farm, nobody told me I was poor when I was a
kid, so I missed the lesson.

Farm is a great place to grow up.

On Fri, 27 Jan 2017 08:21:00 -0800 (PST), Razzmatazz
wrote:

I firmly believe that everyone should have the opportunity to experience the luxury of poverty during their youth so they are not distracted by the pursuit of money and stuff that money buys.

I firmly believe that nobody should ever experience poverty, but that
growing up with only the resources needed to just get by is valuable,
especially where one can augment those resources by their own skills
and ambition.

On Saturday, January 28, 2017 at 9:18:34 AM UTC-6, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jan 2017 08:21:00 -0800 (PST), Razzmatazz
wrote:

I firmly believe that everyone should have the opportunity to experience the luxury of poverty during their youth so they are not distracted by the pursuit of money and stuff that money buys.

I firmly believe that nobody should ever experience poverty, but that
growing up with only the resources needed to just get by is valuable,
especially where one can augment those resources by their own skills
and ambition.

I didn't say that everyone should experience poverty. I said that everyone should have the OPPORTUNITY to experience poverty. That makes it an optional thing that you can choose. For instance, you might decide to leave home at the tender age of 18 and roam parts of the world you have never seen, living on your skills as best you can. In fact, it would be beneficial to this country if every high school student could have the opportunity to spend a year in another country, living with the locals, perhaps thru a Peace Corps type of program.

Razzy