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Light Pollution and the Loss of the Night Sky



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 8th 06, 11:02 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
TBerk
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Default Light Pollution and the Loss of the Night Sky

http://www.californiaconnected.org/tv/archives/449

&
http://www.death-valley.us/article306.html


Here on the West Coast I was watching a show called California
Connected, and it had a piece about some folks working out of Death
Valley and the loss of the night sky to wasted light pollution

It was called 'In Search of Darkness' and brought back to mind the
nerve wracking problems with wasted energy, wasted light, wasted
experiences and the loss of a natural resource our young people don't
know about any more.

Nothing can replace laying with the Earth at your back and the Milky
Way overhead and the knowing of the world turning under it all.

I suppose no one person can fix this problem; but perhaps each of us
can influence those about us, without seeming 'kooky' or extremely
radical.

In any case, if you get a chance to watch the episode listed above,
please do so.


TBerk

  #2  
Old August 9th 06, 01:42 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
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Default Light Pollution and the Loss of the Night Sky

On 8 Aug 2006 17:15:36 -0700, "Ed" wrote:

Sadly, few Professional or Amateurs are interested in this.


Why do you think this? I think nearly all astronomers, professional or
amateur are very interested in this. Many are actively involved in
mitigation measures.

I also think the situation is improving somewhat, although reductions in
wasted light aren't always keeping up with population growth. But
agencies are slowly catching on to the fact that there are substantial
savings to be had by reducing light pollution. And in some cases, it
even goes beyond economics: here in my rural county, the last couple of
housing developments that were approved carried specific lighting
restrictions solely for the purpose of preserving the night sky.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
  #3  
Old August 9th 06, 02:37 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Ed[_2_]
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Default Light Pollution and the Loss of the Night Sky


Chris,

Look at the data man there is a huge amount of folks who are
professional astronomers and who are not active and more amateurs that
are not.

  #4  
Old August 9th 06, 03:05 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Greg Crinklaw
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Default Light Pollution and the Loss of the Night Sky

Ed wrote:
Chris,

Look at the data man there is a huge amount of folks who are
professional astronomers and who are not active and more amateurs that
are not.


That's could be said of anything... But it does not translate into "only
a few are interested." Perhaps in your neck of the woods (wherever that
may be) but in my experience in Southern California and the Southwest
it's quite the opposite.

Clear skies,
Greg

--
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Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)

SkyTools: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html
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To reply take out your eye
  #5  
Old August 9th 06, 04:53 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
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Default Light Pollution and the Loss of the Night Sky

On 8 Aug 2006 20:39:31 -0700, "Ed" wrote:

Sorry Chris but the Southwest isn't the whole United States either.
You are preaching to the choir but you are not noticing everyone else.

I'm on the East Coast my friend, just outside of Philadelphia.


I'm not talking about the SW. Most of the success stories I've read
about have been in New England, and generally east of the Mississippi.
IMO, if there is an apathy problem it must be limited to your area.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
  #6  
Old August 9th 06, 08:47 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
George[_1_]
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Default Light Pollution and the Loss of the Night Sky


"Chris L Peterson" wrote in message
...
On 8 Aug 2006 20:39:31 -0700, "Ed" wrote:

Sorry Chris but the Southwest isn't the whole United States either.
You are preaching to the choir but you are not noticing everyone else.

I'm on the East Coast my friend, just outside of Philadelphia.


I'm not talking about the SW. Most of the success stories I've read
about have been in New England, and generally east of the Mississippi.
IMO, if there is an apathy problem it must be limited to your area.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


I don't know where Ed lives, but I too live east of the Mississippi (along
the Ohio River), and the light pollution here is horrible. I've talked to
some in places like Milwaukee, for instance, who have had some success in
getting ordinances passed to change lighting, but it is my experience that
the vast majority of cities east of the Mississippi have terrible problems
with light pollution. On a good night, I can barely see the northern cross
from my backyard. I can see polaris if I try hard enough, but forget about
seeing the little dipper. It just can't be seen here at all.

George


  #7  
Old August 9th 06, 09:08 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Martin Brown
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Default Light Pollution and the Loss of the Night Sky


Ed wrote:
TBerk,

Sadly, few Professional or Amateurs are interested in this.
Yes, you can make a difference as my club BMAA., Inc. did
manage to work some years ago and got 2 Township ordinances
passed.


Professional astronomers are *very* interested and exercised about
light (and also other EM wavebands where interference from man made
sources is a problem).

However, the professionals concentrate their fire power on defending
the zones around world class observatories in so far as it is posisble
(and when they eventually lose out to commercial interests the scope
has to be relocated to a better site as happened to the UK's Issac
Newton telescope that moved to the Canary Isles from Herstmonceux (and
prior to that the whole Royal Greenwich Observatory which moved to
there from just outside London).

Professional astromoners do not have the time to campaign for darker
skies in cities. The public is terrified of the dark these days so it
is pretty much a lost cause. Some petrol stations and malls are
dazzlingly bright believing (probably correctly) that the light
attracts more customers like moths to a flame.

IDA has not compiled data from these municipalities and states
regarding a cost savings analysis for each of these American cities or
states.


Don't blame the IDA. If you feel so strongly then why don't you get on
and do it!

In the UK we had a parliamentary commission look into the issue. I
don't entirely agree with it's conclusions to use HPS full cut off
everywhere. But they did take evidence from everyone ranging from
serious amateurs up to the then Astronomer Royal, Sir martin Rees who
testified in person to the committee. I don't see how you can possibly
claim that professionals are "not interested". Perhaps it is different
in the USA?

Professionals mainly fight very hard to keep the few remaining truly
dark sites pristine, but they have pretty much given up on cities and
urban sprawl. Life is too short.

Regards,
Martin Brown
(and I did sumbit material to the committee)
http://www.nezumi.demon.co.uk/lightp...the%20u k.htm

  #8  
Old August 9th 06, 11:51 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Rick Evans
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Posts: 74
Default Light Pollution and the Loss of the Night Sky

"Ed" wrote in message
ups.com...

TBerk,

Sadly, few Professional or Amateurs are interested in this.


Bunk!

For years Massachusetts Rep. Marzilli of Arlington,
MA has worked with amateur and professional astronomers to
push a anti light pollution, sensible (full cutoff) lighting bill
through the state legislature only to have it come close then die
in some committee. http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/~graff/nelpag/BILL.html



Yes, you can make a difference as my club BMAA., Inc. did
manage to work some years ago and got 2 Township ordinances
passed.

That is admirable. However, it does little good in a high
population density region to darken one town, as is the
case with Harvard, MA only to have surrounding towns be
artificial twilight zones.
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/hea...28/lights_out/

IDA has not compiled data from these municipalities and states
regarding a cost savings analysis for each of these American cities or
states.


I find it ironic you pick on IDA. A few years ago S&T did a
commentary lamenting the number of members paying dues to IDA
compared to the number of S&T subscribers.


--
Hilton Evans
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Lat +42° 11' 07"
Lon -71° 04' 35"
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http://www.chempensoftware.com
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http://mysite.verizon.net/hiltonevan...troimaging.htm


  #9  
Old August 9th 06, 02:17 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
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Posts: 10,007
Default Light Pollution and the Loss of the Night Sky

On Wed, 9 Aug 2006 03:47:58 -0400, "George"
wrote:

I don't know where Ed lives, but I too live east of the Mississippi (along
the Ohio River), and the light pollution here is horrible. I've talked to
some in places like Milwaukee, for instance, who have had some success in
getting ordinances passed to change lighting, but it is my experience that
the vast majority of cities east of the Mississippi have terrible problems
with light pollution. On a good night, I can barely see the northern cross
from my backyard. I can see polaris if I try hard enough, but forget about
seeing the little dipper. It just can't be seen here at all.


No doubt that light pollution is far worse east of the Mississippi. I
was taking exception to Ed's belief that astronomers in general were
apathetic about it (or possibly that eastern astronomers were more
apathetic than western ones).

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
  #10  
Old August 9th 06, 03:05 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
George[_1_]
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Posts: 884
Default Light Pollution and the Loss of the Night Sky


"Chris L Peterson" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 9 Aug 2006 03:47:58 -0400, "George"
wrote:

I don't know where Ed lives, but I too live east of the Mississippi
(along
the Ohio River), and the light pollution here is horrible. I've talked
to
some in places like Milwaukee, for instance, who have had some success in
getting ordinances passed to change lighting, but it is my experience
that
the vast majority of cities east of the Mississippi have terrible
problems
with light pollution. On a good night, I can barely see the northern
cross
from my backyard. I can see polaris if I try hard enough, but forget
about
seeing the little dipper. It just can't be seen here at all.


No doubt that light pollution is far worse east of the Mississippi. I
was taking exception to Ed's belief that astronomers in general were
apathetic about it (or possibly that eastern astronomers were more
apathetic than western ones).

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


I don't know any astronomers or amateurs who are appathetic about it. The
issue is not the astronomers, but the pervasiveness of the light pollution.
I mean, in most places around here, trying to put a dent in the amount of
light pollution would be such a huge undertaking that it would likely be an
exercise in futility.

George


 




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