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Addressing the formation of the solar system



 
 
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  #11  
Old April 7th 09, 09:46 PM posted to rec.org.mensa,sci.astro,alt.astronomy,uk.sci.astronomy
BURT
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Posts: 371
Default Addressing the formation of the solar system

On Apr 7, 11:59*am, BradGuth wrote:
On Apr 7, 12:00*am, "Mark Earnest" wrote:





"BURT" wrote in message


....


How do accretion discs form in a flat plane around a star?


How does the gravitational order bring matter together in the solar
plane. How then does this matter proceed to become planets?


There were trillions of lumps of matter. How did they come together
for the order of the solar system we now see?


Nobody can do it. And never will.


Mitch Raemsch


Gas does not come together.
It dissipates.
There is no way the solar system could have formed,
except by supernatural accomplishment.


There's always good old gravity, the electrostatic force and the
magnetic force of attraction, in addition to just the natural process
of recombining and subsequent crystal growth of matter (aka black
diamond).

*~ BG- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


How does all the matter end up in an accretion disc or the solar
plane?

Mitch Raemsch
  #12  
Old April 7th 09, 10:03 PM posted to rec.org.mensa,sci.astro,alt.astronomy,uk.sci.astronomy
Martin Brown
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Posts: 1,707
Default Addressing the formation of the solar system

BURT wrote:
On Apr 6, 11:44 pm, Martin Brown
wrote:
Mark Earnest wrote:
"BURT" wrote in message
...
How do accretion discs form in a flat plane around a star?
How does the gravitational order bring matter together in the solar
plane. How then does this matter proceed to become planets?
There were trillions of lumps of matter. How did they come together
for the order of the solar system we now see?
Nobody can do it. And never will.
Mitch Raemsch
Gas does not come together.
It dissipates.
There is no way the solar system could have formed,
except by supernatural accomplishment.

Gravity and conservation of angular momentum seem to work pretty well.

http://astronomyonline.org/SolarSyst...tion.asp?Cate=...

Is a fairly reasonable basic introduction to the topic.


But how do you get everything to move in the same direction.


You don't need to. The material when it collides exchanges momentum
scattering a few objects out of the system and binding the rest ever
more closely together. The initially random motions average out and if
there is any significant net angular momentum remaining then you have a
distinct spin axis which defines a plane perpendicular to it.

It is rare to find something undergoing gravitational collapse with zero
net angular momentum but by no means impossible. And just like the
ballerina pulling her arms in as the matter in the nebula moves in
toward the spin axis conservation of angular momentum makes it orbit faster.

Also why is there a plane?


There doesn't have to be a plane. But if the material starts out with
some net angular momentum then it will define a spin axis. You probably
won't get any planets unless there is a decent accretion disk formed
around the star. People are still haggling about how often it occurs.

Globular star clusters like M13 are examples of larger aggregations of
stars tightly gravitationally bound into a spherically symmetric ball.

http://www.concentric.net/~Richmann/m13w.htm

Regards,
Martin Brown
  #13  
Old April 7th 09, 10:16 PM posted to rec.org.mensa,sci.astro,alt.astronomy,uk.sci.astronomy
Richard Tobin
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Posts: 230
Default Addressing the formation of the solar system

In article ,
BURT wrote:

How does all the matter end up in an accretion disc or the solar
plane?


By now, it's clear that "BURT" or "Mitch" never learns anything. He's
either a troll or a moron. Don't waste your time explaining things to
him over and over again.

-- Richard
--
Please remember to mention me / in tapes you leave behind.
  #14  
Old April 7th 09, 10:28 PM posted to rec.org.mensa,sci.astro,alt.astronomy,uk.sci.astronomy
BURT
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Posts: 371
Default Addressing the formation of the solar system

On Apr 7, 1:16*pm, (Richard Tobin) wrote:
In article ,

BURT wrote:
How does all the matter end up in an accretion disc or the solar
plane?


By now, it's clear that "BURT" or "Mitch" never learns anything. *He's
either a troll or a moron. *Don't waste your time explaining things to
him over and over again.

-- Richard
--
Please remember to mention me / in tapes you leave behind.


You sir are a baffoon.
  #15  
Old April 7th 09, 11:09 PM posted to rec.org.mensa,sci.astro,alt.astronomy,uk.sci.astronomy
Mark Earnest
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Posts: 1,586
Default Addressing the formation of the solar system


"Mike Dworetsky" wrote in message
...
"Mark Earnest" wrote in message
...

"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
Mark Earnest wrote:
"BURT" wrote in message
...
How do accretion discs form in a flat plane around a star?

How does the gravitational order bring matter together in the solar
plane. How then does this matter proceed to become planets?

There were trillions of lumps of matter. How did they come together
for the order of the solar system we now see?

Nobody can do it. And never will.

Mitch Raemsch

Gas does not come together.
It dissipates.
There is no way the solar system could have formed,
except by supernatural accomplishment.

Gravity and conservation of angular momentum seem to work pretty well.

http://astronomyonline.org/SolarSyst...&SubCate2=SS13

Is a fairly reasonable basic introduction to the topic.

Regards,
Martin Brown


No, YOU tell me how gas anti dissipated into the Solar System.
Don't rely on some cryptic nonsense as some kind of "explanation."



No, you tell me how "Goddidit" is not a cryptic explanation first.


Can't explain it, just as I thought.


  #16  
Old April 7th 09, 11:11 PM posted to rec.org.mensa,sci.astro,alt.astronomy,uk.sci.astronomy
Mark Earnest
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Posts: 1,586
Default Addressing the formation of the solar system


"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
Mark Earnest wrote:
"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
Mark Earnest wrote:
"BURT" wrote in message
...
How do accretion discs form in a flat plane around a star?

How does the gravitational order bring matter together in the solar
plane. How then does this matter proceed to become planets?

There were trillions of lumps of matter. How did they come together
for the order of the solar system we now see?

Nobody can do it. And never will.

Mitch Raemsch
Gas does not come together.
It dissipates.
There is no way the solar system could have formed,
except by supernatural accomplishment.


Gravity and conservation of angular momentum seem to work pretty well.

http://astronomyonline.org/SolarSyst...&SubCate2=SS13

Is a fairly reasonable basic introduction to the topic.

Regards,
Martin Brown


No, YOU tell me how gas anti dissipated into the Solar System.


Gravitational attraction of mostly neutral matter, a small amount of
dissipative friction and radiative cooling of the accretion disk is all
that is needed to allow solar systems to form and planets to condense.
Gravity is the weakest magnitude force but it always attracts.

Shockwaves and excreta from nearby supernovae almost certainly played a
part in our solar systems formation - it contains far too much iron and
heavier elements to be a first generation star.

Don't rely on some cryptic nonsense as some kind of "explanation."


You mean like you do? Superstitious cryptic "just so" stories are no
"explanation" of anything.

Regards,
Martin Brown


It isn't "matter" that coalesced, it is gas, and gas does not coalesce
without some kind of help.

If you don't know about the supernatural, then you don't know
why under the correct conditions, corn turns inside out to form popcorn.


  #17  
Old April 7th 09, 11:31 PM posted to rec.org.mensa,sci.astro,alt.astronomy,uk.sci.astronomy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Addressing the formation of the solar system

"Mark Earnest" wrote in message ca...
It isn't "matter" that coalesced, it is gas, and gas does not coalesce
without some kind of help.

If you don't know about the supernatural, then you don't know
why under the correct conditions, corn turns inside out to form popcorn.


Oh good grief.

And creationists wonder why no one takes them seriously.

Hey Mark, how old is the rock at the bottom of the Grand Canyon?



  #18  
Old April 7th 09, 11:40 PM posted to sci.astro,alt.astronomy,uk.sci.astronomy
Mark McIntyre[_2_]
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Posts: 65
Default Addressing the formation of the solar system

On 07/04/09 09:16, Mark Earnest wrote:

No, YOU tell me how gas anti dissipated into the Solar System.


It didn't "anti-dissipate".

Don't rely on some cryptic nonsense as some kind of "explanation."


Whats your "explanation"? Please don't rely on some cryptic nonsense
such as "a divine being did it".

Incidentally does our atmosphere dissipate, or does some
"anti-dissipation" force keep it swirling round the earth? How about the
moon?

(irrelevant groups snipped)
  #19  
Old April 7th 09, 11:41 PM posted to rec.org.mensa,sci.astro,alt.astronomy,uk.sci.astronomy
Mark McIntyre[_2_]
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Posts: 65
Default Addressing the formation of the solar system

On 07/04/09 23:11, Mark Earnest wrote:

It isn't "matter" that coalesced, it is gas, and gas does not coalesce
without some kind of help.


Gas /is/ matter, and Martin already explained the "help" it was getting.

If you don't know about the supernatural, then you don't know
why under the correct conditions, corn turns inside out to form popcorn.


Amusing. But at least now we know you're either a blatant troll, or a
lunatic.
  #20  
Old April 7th 09, 11:43 PM posted to rec.org.mensa,sci.astro,alt.astronomy,uk.sci.astronomy
Mark McIntyre[_2_]
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Posts: 65
Default Addressing the formation of the solar system

On 07/04/09 22:28, BURT wrote:
On Apr 7, 1:16 pm, (Richard Tobin) wrote:
In ,

wrote:
How does all the matter end up in an accretion disc or the solar
plane?

By now, it's clear that "BURT" or "Mitch" never learns anything. He's
either a troll or a moron. Don't waste your time explaining things to
him over and over again.

-- Richard
--
Please remember to mention me / in tapes you leave behind.


You sir are a baffoon.


Its spelled with a U.

Meanwhile if you read the original references quoted by Martin, you'd
know the answer.
 




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