Training report (observing report)

On Tuesday, August 5, 2014 5:23:03 PM UTC+1, Uncarollo2 wrote:
On Tuesday, August 5, 2014 4:22:13 AM UTC-5, oriel36 wrote:





The cooperation between you all can be quite remarkable but it is the type of mob cooperation that works against astronomy for how else to account for the cloak of obscurity covering some of the most enjoyable insights imaginable including new ones made possible with the ability to condense long term observations into visual narratives.





Wonderful word salad. Well done, well done!



Uncawordie

You all have the separate resolution for inner planetary retrogrades in front of you based on using the annual motion of the stars behind the Sun as a reference for the Earth's orbital motion through space leaving the grandstand view of the inner planets as they move against the background stars and from out behind the Sun to their widest point where they then swing in -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdFrE7hWj0A

http://www.masil-astro-imaging.com/S...age%20flat.jpg

Outer planetary retrogrades are different as it is comparing the Earth's motion to those of the slower moving outer planets so that as the Earth

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap011220.html

Go back to seeing baked potatoes on the moon Rolando or some other meaningless pursuit but here these students can enjoy the partitioning between inner and outer retrograde resolution for the first time in history. I don't mind that you ungrateful sods are the first to see it, eventually it will be adopted as a matter of course.

On Tuesday, August 5, 2014 12:00:49 PM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:

You all have the separate resolution for inner planetary retrogrades... Outer planetary retrogrades are different as it is comparing the Earth's motion to those of the slower moving outer planets so that as the Earth

It doesn't matter that there are different perspectives for superior and inferior apparent retrograde motions, the word itself has a single definition that conveniently applies to both! From here...

http://cseligman.com/text/sky/retrograde.htm

"Retrograde motion: The most commonly discussed "retrograde" motion is the apparent backward motion of a planet caused by its being lapped by another planet, or vice-versa. Both planets move in a direct (eastward) motion around the Sun, but the planet with the inside (smaller) orbit moves faster than the planet on the outside (larger) orbit, and when it passes the slower-moving planet, each sees the other one as apparently moving backwards relative to its usual motion around the sky. In this "retrograde" motion, neither planet is actually moving backwards; it only appears that way, during the time that one laps the other."

Note the "or vice-versa" phrase. The definition does not mention 'inner' or 'outer' retrograde because it isn't needed to explain the apparent motion. You have no "new" insight, that is only a figment of your imagination.

On Tuesday, August 5, 2014 8:49:38 PM UTC+1, palsing wrote:
On Tuesday, August 5, 2014 12:00:49 PM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:



You all have the separate resolution for inner planetary retrogrades... Outer planetary retrogrades are different as it is comparing the Earth's motion to those of the slower moving outer planets so that as the Earth



It doesn't matter that there are different perspectives for superior and inferior apparent retrograde motions, the word itself has a single definition that conveniently applies to both! From here...



http://cseligman.com/text/sky/retrograde.htm



"Retrograde motion: The most commonly discussed "retrograde" motion is the apparent backward motion of a planet caused by its being lapped by another planet, or vice-versa. Both planets move in a direct (eastward) motion around the Sun, but the planet with the inside (smaller) orbit moves faster than the planet on the outside (larger) orbit, and when it passes the slower-moving planet, each sees the other one as apparently moving backwards relative to its usual motion around the sky. In this "retrograde" motion, neither planet is actually moving backwards; it only appears that way, during the time that one laps the other."



Note the "or vice-versa" phrase. The definition does not mention 'inner' or 'outer' retrograde because it isn't needed to explain the apparent motion. You have no "new" insight, that is only a figment of your imagination.


I had deleted a sentence so at least I get a chance to clear it up.

Planets are defined in context to their motions against the background stars despite these impostors trying to define a planet as an object outside context of their 'wandering' motions.

Outer planetary retrogrades are gauged as the slower moving outer planets against the faster moving Earth where the overtaking action of the Earth causes the planets to temporarily fall behind in view when gauged against the background stars as Jupiter and Saturn are seen to do here -

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/0112/JuSa2000_tezel.gif

Inner planetary retrogrades are different as the orbital motion of the Earth only plays the role of determining its own orbital motion by way of the motion of the field of stars behind the Sun in sequence leaving that beautiful grandstand view as Venus and Mercury wander in one direction against those field of stars and then in the direction of the annual motion of the stars as they swing in front of the Sun -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdFrE7hWj0A

http://www.masil-astro-imaging.com/S...age%20flat.jpg

Unlike the refined atmosphere into which Copernicus introduced the original resolution for retrogrades where the Sun's motion through the Zodiac would have presented problems for the appreciation of inner planetary retrograde resolution, the new solution meets an audience of extreme crudeness. The shift of the apparent annual motion of the Sun through the Zodiac favored by the great astronomers gives way to the annual motion of the stars behind the Sun as the new and more productive view provides a fixed central reference for the annual motions of Venus and Mercury and therefore a grandstand view of those planets and their circuits around the Sun.

This is a gift that may find a proper audience one day.

On Tuesday, August 5, 2014 2:00:49 PM UTC-5, oriel36 wrote:
On Tuesday, August 5, 2014 5:23:03 PM UTC+1, Uncarollo2 wrote:

On Tuesday, August 5, 2014 4:22:13 AM UTC-5, oriel36 wrote:











The cooperation between you all can be quite remarkable but it is the type of mob cooperation that works against astronomy for how else to account for the cloak of obscurity covering some of the most enjoyable insights imaginable including new ones made possible with the ability to condense long term observations into visual narratives.











Wonderful word salad. Well done, well done!







Uncawordie



You all have the separate resolution for inner planetary retrogrades in front of you based on using the annual motion of the stars behind the Sun as a reference for the Earth's orbital motion through space leaving the grandstand view of the inner planets as they move against the background stars and from out behind the Sun to their widest point where they then swing in -



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdFrE7hWj0A



http://www.masil-astro-imaging.com/S...age%20flat.jpg



Outer planetary retrogrades are different as it is comparing the Earth's motion to those of the slower moving outer planets so that as the Earth



http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap011220.html



Go back to seeing baked potatoes on the moon Rolando or some other meaningless pursuit but here these students can enjoy the partitioning between inner and outer retrograde resolution for the first time in history. I don't mind that you ungrateful sods are the first to see it, eventually it will be adopted as a matter of course.

Hey look, squirrel! http://www.perseus.gr/Astro-Star-Tra...gion-2014b.htm

On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 12:54:04 AM UTC+1, Uncarollo2 wrote:
On Tuesday, August 5, 2014 2:00:49 PM UTC-5, oriel36 wrote:

On Tuesday, August 5, 2014 5:23:03 PM UTC+1, Uncarollo2 wrote:



On Tuesday, August 5, 2014 4:22:13 AM UTC-5, oriel36 wrote:























The cooperation between you all can be quite remarkable but it is the type of mob cooperation that works against astronomy for how else to account for the cloak of obscurity covering some of the most enjoyable insights imaginable including new ones made possible with the ability to condense long term observations into visual narratives.























Wonderful word salad. Well done, well done!















Uncawordie







You all have the separate resolution for inner planetary retrogrades in front of you based on using the annual motion of the stars behind the Sun as a reference for the Earth's orbital motion through space leaving the grandstand view of the inner planets as they move against the background stars and from out behind the Sun to their widest point where they then swing in -







https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdFrE7hWj0A







http://www.masil-astro-imaging.com/S...age%20flat.jpg







Outer planetary retrogrades are different as it is comparing the Earth's motion to those of the slower moving outer planets so that as the Earth







http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap011220.html







Go back to seeing baked potatoes on the moon Rolando or some other meaningless pursuit but here these students can enjoy the partitioning between inner and outer retrograde resolution for the first time in history. I don't mind that you ungrateful sods are the first to see it, eventually it will be adopted as a matter of course.



Hey look, squirrel! http://www.perseus.gr/Astro-Star-Tra...gion-2014b.htm

Coming from a guy who gets readers here to see a 'baked potato on the moon' I wouldn't expect any different or any less from you.

For everyone else,including Bill Owen at JPL, they are going to set aside circumpolar motion and focus on the annual motion of the constellations using the central Sun as a reference so that the window for this observation form of astronomy is only very brief as it occurs at dawn and twilight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeQwYrfmvoQ

The stars will appear to move left to right in a slow and uneven motion behind the Sun as the Earth varies its speed through space with one particularly bright star of note,in this case Sirius as a marker for the Earth's position in space as its emerges from behind the Sun's glare one dawn to the right of the Sun.

Circumpolar motion is valuable for one reason only in that it provides a reference for constant orientation of rotation which then allows the appreciation of the second surface rotation to the central Sun as a function of the Earth's orbital motion and from there it accounts for the seasonal variations in the motion of the Sun observed from the surface.

On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 1:21:07 AM UTC-5, oriel36 wrote:
On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 12:54:04 AM UTC+1, Uncarollo2 wrote:

On Tuesday, August 5, 2014 2:00:49 PM UTC-5, oriel36 wrote:



On Tuesday, August 5, 2014 5:23:03 PM UTC+1, Uncarollo2 wrote:







On Tuesday, August 5, 2014 4:22:13 AM UTC-5, oriel36 wrote:















































The cooperation between you all can be quite remarkable but it is the type of mob cooperation that works against astronomy for how else to account for the cloak of obscurity covering some of the most enjoyable insights imaginable including new ones made possible with the ability to condense long term observations into visual narratives.















































Wonderful word salad. Well done, well done!































Uncawordie















You all have the separate resolution for inner planetary retrogrades in front of you based on using the annual motion of the stars behind the Sun as a reference for the Earth's orbital motion through space leaving the grandstand view of the inner planets as they move against the background stars and from out behind the Sun to their widest point where they then swing in -















https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdFrE7hWj0A















http://www.masil-astro-imaging.com/S...age%20flat.jpg















Outer planetary retrogrades are different as it is comparing the Earth's motion to those of the slower moving outer planets so that as the Earth















http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap011220.html















Go back to seeing baked potatoes on the moon Rolando or some other meaningless pursuit but here these students can enjoy the partitioning between inner and outer retrograde resolution for the first time in history. I don't mind that you ungrateful sods are the first to see it, eventually it will be adopted as a matter of course.







Hey look, squirrel! http://www.perseus.gr/Astro-Star-Tra...gion-2014b.htm



Coming from a guy who gets readers here to see a 'baked potato on the moon' I wouldn't expect any different or any less from you.



For everyone else,including Bill Owen at JPL, they are going to set aside circumpolar motion and focus on the annual motion of the constellations using the central Sun as a reference so that the window for this observation form of astronomy is only very brief as it occurs at dawn and twilight.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeQwYrfmvoQ



The stars will appear to move left to right in a slow and uneven motion behind the Sun as the Earth varies its speed through space with one particularly bright star of note,in this case Sirius as a marker for the Earth's position in space as its emerges from behind the Sun's glare one dawn to the right of the Sun.



Circumpolar motion is valuable for one reason only in that it provides a reference for constant orientation of rotation which then allows the appreciation of the second surface rotation to the central Sun as a function of the Earth's orbital motion and from there it accounts for the seasonal variations in the motion of the Sun observed from the surface.

Abba Dabba Dooo! Do you ride a brontosaurus to work?

Uncacircumpolar

On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 8:58:47 AM UTC-7, Uncarollo2 wrote:

Abba Dabba Dooo! Do you ride a brontosaurus to work?



Uncacircumpolar

I believe that is more correctly Yabba Dabba Doo...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpGx4foRdPw

:)

oriel36 wrote: amongst other things.

Circumpolar motion is valuable for one reason only in that it provides a
reference for constant orientation of rotation.

By George he's got it!

On Tuesday, August 5, 2014 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:

Circumpolar motion is valuable for one reason only in that it provides a reference for constant orientation of rotation...

Also, it provides an accurate a rotation time with respect to those stars, that being 23 56 04, of course...

On Monday, August 4, 2014 12:37:44 PM UTC-4, Bill Owen wrote:
A colleague and I were asked to train about 8 or 10 camp counselors on

the use of their six 70 mm refractors. Nice instruments, f/10 with

something like 35 and 10 mm eyepieces, 1x finder with the little

battery-powered red dot, alt-az mount. We set up on a turnout on

Angeles Crest Hwy (north of Los Angeles) at about 4900 ft elevation.


Sounds like a worthwhile effort. But I wish scopes still came with only real finderscopes of at least 30mm aperture. Reason is, red dots are useless in the city/suburbs (where most observe) except for the brightest objects and their little batteries die. Also, even if the telescope is used with an diagonal, the finder is still orientated upside down and left-right so people can learn how to accommodate that when observing.