Expanding universe, but crashing galaxies?

Some time ago, in my questioning the idea of absolute relative position
in space, my having thought there was a center and an edge to the
universe, I was shown that the universe is infinite like an infinitely
thick skin of a balloon ever expanding. And was provided these links
for explanation.

http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/nocenter.html
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmology_faq.html

Now I come across an article on badastronomy.com that our galaxy is
colliding with another galaxy, and that we and the Andromeda galaxy are
getting closer.

If our universe is constantly expanding, everything away from each
other, how is it possible that we've collided with another galaxy and
we're getting closer to another?

Thanks for any feedback!
-Liam

Liam wrote:

If our universe is constantly expanding, everything away from each
other, how is it possible that we've collided with another galaxy and
we're getting closer to another?

Thanks for any feedback!
-Liam

Hi:

On "small" scales--as in our local group of galaxies, etc.--the force
of gravity is more important than the Hubble Flow, the expansion of the
universe.

Peace,
Rod Mollise
Author of _Choosing and Using a Schmidt Cassegrain Telescope_
http://skywatch.brainiac.com/astroland/index.htm

Like SCTs and MCTs?
Check-out sct-user, the mailing list for CAT fanciers:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sct-user

See: http://journals.aol.com/rmollise/UncleRodsAstroBlog/
For Uncle Rod's Astro Blog.

Liam wrote:
Some time ago, in my questioning the idea of absolute relative position
in space, my having thought there was a center and an edge to the
universe, I was shown that the universe is infinite like an infinitely
thick skin of a balloon ever expanding. And was provided these links
for explanation.

http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/nocenter.html
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmology_faq.html

Now I come across an article on badastronomy.com that our galaxy is
colliding with another galaxy, and that we and the Andromeda galaxy are
getting closer.

If our universe is constantly expanding, everything away from each
other, how is it possible that we've collided with another galaxy and
we're getting closer to another?

Thanks for any feedback!
-Liam


Space is expanding with a current expansion rate of 71 km/s/Mpc, but
at the local and even super galactic cluster levels, gravity dominates.

RMOLLISE wrote:
Liam wrote:

If our universe is constantly expanding, everything away from each
other, how is it possible that we've collided with another galaxy and
we're getting closer to another?

Thanks for any feedback!
-Liam

Hi:

On "small" scales--as in our local group of galaxies, etc.--the force
of gravity is more important than the Hubble Flow, the expansion of the
universe.

Ah! OK, that makes sense.
Thanks for the clue-by-four. =)
-Liam

Liam wrote:
Some time ago, in my questioning the idea of absolute relative position
in space, my having thought there was a center and an edge to the
universe, I was shown that the universe is infinite like an infinitely
thick skin of a balloon ever expanding. And was provided these links
for explanation.

http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/nocenter.html
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmology_faq.html

Now I come across an article on badastronomy.com that our galaxy is
colliding with another galaxy, and that we and the Andromeda galaxy are
getting closer.

If our universe is constantly expanding, everything away from each
other, how is it possible that we've collided with another galaxy and
we're getting closer to another?

Thanks for any feedback!
-Liam

They are seeing an expanding balloon Universe because the Newtonian
conceptions were built on the celestial sphere or celestial balloon if
you like.

They are looking out at the external galaxies through the celestial
sphere * therefore no surprise that they are coming up with balloon
universes !.

*
http://www.opencourse.info/astronomy...phere_anim.gif

This 'balloon' stuff died a quick death over the last few years and it
is best leave it wither into oblivion.

While everything is expanding, it's in all directions at once. Right now a
dwarft galaxy is being "Eaten?" by ours and is is pulling on the SMC & LMC
galaxies too. And yest we're on a headlong corse to M31. All you need to do
is look at the Hubble Deepspace photos, they've found LOTS of galaxies
crashing into one another.


--
The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond

Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
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Blast Off Online Gift Shop
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Astro Blog
http://starlord.bloggerteam.com/




"Liam" wrote in message
oups.com...
Some time ago, in my questioning the idea of absolute relative position
in space, my having thought there was a center and an edge to the
universe, I was shown that the universe is infinite like an infinitely
thick skin of a balloon ever expanding. And was provided these links
for explanation.

http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/nocenter.html
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmology_faq.html

Now I come across an article on badastronomy.com that our galaxy is
colliding with another galaxy, and that we and the Andromeda galaxy are
getting closer.

If our universe is constantly expanding, everything away from each
other, how is it possible that we've collided with another galaxy and
we're getting closer to another?

Thanks for any feedback!
-Liam

Liam wrote:


What's the latest, best model to describe the expansion of the
universe?
When I once asked "If the universe is like the skin of the balloon, how
thick is it?"


Hi Liam:

The "Oriole" guy/gal is what's referred to as an "Internet Loon."
His/her "information" has no connection with reality, and she/he is
best ignored. ;-)

Peace,
Rod Mollise
Author of _Choosing and Using a Schmidt Cassegrain Telescope_
http://skywatch.brainiac.com/astroland/index.htm

Like SCTs and MCTs?
Check-out sct-user, the mailing list for CAT fanciers:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sct-user

See: http://journals.aol.com/rmollise/UncleRodsAstroBlog/
For Uncle Rod's Astro Blog.

"Liam" wrote in
oups.com:


oriel36 wrote:
Liam wrote:
Some time ago, in my questioning the idea of absolute relative
position in space, my having thought there was a center and an edge
to the universe, I was shown that the universe is infinite like an
infinitely thick skin of a balloon ever expanding. And was provided
these links for explanation.

http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/nocenter.html
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmology_faq.html

Now I come across an article on badastronomy.com that our galaxy is
colliding with another galaxy, and that we and the Andromeda galaxy
are getting closer.

If our universe is constantly expanding, everything away from each
other, how is it possible that we've collided with another galaxy and
we're getting closer to another?

Thanks for any feedback!
-Liam

They are seeing an expanding balloon Universe because the Newtonian
conceptions were built on the celestial sphere or celestial balloon if
you like.

They are looking out at the external galaxies through the celestial
sphere * therefore no surprise that they are coming up with balloon
universes !.

*
http://www.opencourse.info/astronomy...n_stars_sun/ce
lestial_sphere_anim.gif

This 'balloon' stuff died a quick death over the last few years and it
is best leave it wither into oblivion.

What's the latest, best model to describe the expansion of the
universe?
When I once asked "If the universe is like the skin of the balloon, how
thick is it?"
I was told "A good guess is one Plack time thick... don't take
metaphors too literally."
So I can wrap my head around the idea of the universe "like" an
expanding balloon skin where the skin is "infinitely" thick, and thus
the actual sphere idea being moot. Is that what you mean?


Don't pay any attention to Oriel. He's a nutcase. The balloon model is just
an analogy and can't be taken too far. I have seen another anlaogy used is
raisins in a loaf of bread - as the bread cooks it expands and the
separations between the raisins increases. These analogies are used merely
as illustrations. The actual phenomena are only accurately modelled by the
equations of General Relativity Theory which are not easy to grasp.
Unfortunately you can only get the full picture by tackling these
equations, which requires knowledge of fairly advanced mathematics such as
tensor analysis and differential geometry. Ned Wright's cosmology tutorial
has as good an explanation as you will get for the layman.

http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmolog.htm

Regards Llanzlan.

Liam wrote:
oriel36 wrote:
Liam wrote:
Some time ago, in my questioning the idea of absolute relative position
in space, my having thought there was a center and an edge to the
universe, I was shown that the universe is infinite like an infinitely
thick skin of a balloon ever expanding. And was provided these links
for explanation.

http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/nocenter.html
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmology_faq.html

Now I come across an article on badastronomy.com that our galaxy is
colliding with another galaxy, and that we and the Andromeda galaxy are
getting closer.

If our universe is constantly expanding, everything away from each
other, how is it possible that we've collided with another galaxy and
we're getting closer to another?

Thanks for any feedback!
-Liam

They are seeing an expanding balloon Universe because the Newtonian
conceptions were built on the celestial sphere or celestial balloon if
you like.

They are looking out at the external galaxies through the celestial
sphere * therefore no surprise that they are coming up with balloon
universes !.

*
http://www.opencourse.info/astronomy...phere_anim.gif

This 'balloon' stuff died a quick death over the last few years and it
is best leave it wither into oblivion.

What's the latest, best model to describe the expansion of the
universe?
When I once asked "If the universe is like the skin of the balloon, how
thick is it?"
I was told "A good guess is one Plack time thick... don't take
metaphors too literally."
So I can wrap my head around the idea of the universe "like" an
expanding balloon skin where the skin is "infinitely" thick, and thus
the actual sphere idea being moot. Is that what you mean?


The rising raison bread analogy is a better model. As the bread rises,
the raisons "tend" to move further apart. This is like the galaxies in
the expanding universe.

Dobule-A

oriel36 wrote:
Liam wrote:
Some time ago, in my questioning the idea of absolute relative position
in space, my having thought there was a center and an edge to the
universe, I was shown that the universe is infinite like an infinitely
thick skin of a balloon ever expanding. And was provided these links
for explanation.

http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/nocenter.html
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmology_faq.html

Now I come across an article on badastronomy.com that our galaxy is
colliding with another galaxy, and that we and the Andromeda galaxy are
getting closer.

If our universe is constantly expanding, everything away from each
other, how is it possible that we've collided with another galaxy and
we're getting closer to another?

Thanks for any feedback!
-Liam

They are seeing an expanding balloon Universe because the Newtonian
conceptions were built on the celestial sphere or celestial balloon if
you like.

They are looking out at the external galaxies through the celestial
sphere * therefore no surprise that they are coming up with balloon
universes !.

*
http://www.opencourse.info/astronomy...phere_anim.gif

This 'balloon' stuff died a quick death over the last few years and it
is best leave it wither into oblivion.


Are you still trying to burst their balloon, Gerald?

Double-A