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...The Greatest Weakness of America!



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 17th 07, 03:07 PM posted to sci.geo.geology,sci.space.policy,us.military.army,alt.global-warming,sci.military.naval
BradGuth
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Posts: 21,544
Default ...The Greatest Weakness of America!

On Jul 17, 5:23 am, (Rand Simberg)
wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:27:57 -0400, in a place far, far away,
"Jonathan" made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:

I've seen such panic situations with my own eyes
several times, as i live in Miami. Trust me when I say
when the day comes the world realizes the oil party
is over, it'll all come crashing down ....overnight.


Not a steady decline, but in a panic.


Nonsense. "Peak oil" is a myth. We have huge reserves in shale and
tar sands, which become economically viable at prices below the
current ones.


At $100+ per barrel, there's oil in most anything.

At $1000/barrel we can make oil out of gems. Otherwise human bodies
can be processed into oil.

What's the BTU rating of a good Muslim, or via most anything other
that's alive and kicking?
-
Brad Guth

  #12  
Old July 17th 07, 04:08 PM posted to sci.geo.geology,sci.space.policy,us.military.army,alt.global-warming,sci.military.naval
mrbawana2u
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Posts: 29
Default ...The Greatest Weakness of America!

On Jul 16, 7:27 pm, "Jonathan" wrote:

I'm stating the obvious when I claim it's our dependence
on fossil fuels.


Just tattoo MORON on your forehead.

Left-tards and other government parasites are "The Greatest Weakness
of America!"

  #13  
Old July 17th 07, 04:22 PM posted to sci.geo.geology,sci.space.policy,us.military.army,alt.global-warming,sci.military.naval
Eduard Groenstein
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Posts: 110
Default ...The Greatest Weakness of America!

On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 15:12:15 +0200, Peter Muehlbauer wrote:

If it's made from the cellulose, then it is ok. Better than composting that.
I know from Paragauy, my future home, that there is added about
10% ethanol to the gasoline, that makes motors run very smoothly and
extends the endurance.
But even if i.e. Paraguay has very much of sugar cane, it is not enough to
replace fossil fuel. Ethanol will always be an additive, but no replacement.
I don't know much of the conditions in Brazil, or even Florida, where you
live, but without selective cultivation it would not be enough either.


10% ethanol is common in many countries. Because of its lower calorific
value you won't drive as far on a tank of 10% as you would on 100% motor
spirit. It does however increase the octane rating so for some engines which are
turbo charged and can sense knock and adjust charge pressure accordingly
ethanol means more power.

The ultimate renewable fuel is ****. Everybody ****s, production
always tracks population size. What a magical fuel.




  #14  
Old July 17th 07, 04:25 PM posted to sci.geo.geology,sci.space.policy,us.military.army,alt.global-warming,sci.military.naval
Bert Hyman
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Posts: 174
Default ...The Greatest Weakness of America!

(Jack Linthicum) wrote in
ups.com:

and ordinary field weeds are better sources of ethanol than corn.


But there's no lobby or PAC of field weed farmers.

--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN |

  #15  
Old July 17th 07, 04:32 PM posted to sci.geo.geology,sci.space.policy,us.military.army,alt.global-warming,sci.military.naval
Rich[_2_]
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Posts: 113
Default ...The Greatest Weakness of America!

Peter Muehlbauer wrote:
"Rand Simberg" wrote
On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:27:57 -0400, in a place far, far away,
"Jonathan" made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:

I've seen such panic situations with my own eyes
several times, as i live in Miami. Trust me when I say
when the day comes the world realizes the oil party
is over, it'll all come crashing down ....overnight.

Not a steady decline, but in a panic.

Nonsense. "Peak oil" is a myth. We have huge reserves in shale and
tar sands, which become economically viable at prices below the
current ones.


Just an hour ago, there was a documentation on german TV about
a farmer in Tennesee, who found oil on his land by flike.
An oil company then was exploring his land and found lots of oil
although there hasn't thought to be oil.
They now convey about 4000 barrels a week from there.
I think, the earth has still a lot of oil, it has only to be found.


Was his name Jed Clampett? :-)

Cheers,

Rich


  #16  
Old July 17th 07, 04:45 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Joe Strout
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Posts: 972
Default ...The Greatest Weakness of America!

In article ,
"Jonathan" wrote:

I'm stating the obvious when I claim it's our dependence
on fossil fuels.

But what I think few understand is just how quickly
the world oil market could collapse. Do you realize
that OPEC bases its annual oil production quotas
partially on the estimated reserves a member
country claims?

Which means a country can pump more oil each
year if it claims larger reserves in the ground.


I think you have a valid point here. These inflated estimates (a
natural result of the quota rules) will indeed result is a harder crash
than would otherwise occur.

But think about that for a moment. Has anyone
ever been in a city the moment it becomes clear
a hurricane is going to hit? That city goes from
a normally functioning well supplied operation
to being completely wiped out of all cash, gas
and food in .....THREE HOURS FLAT!


The difference is that there are substitutes and alternate sources for
oil; they're just more expensive. Things like oil shale, for example.
So we won't be wiped out; we'll just be paying a lot more, and alternate
sources of fuel will suddenly become economically viable.

If America is not ready for that day, our country
could become a ghost of its former self in the
blink of an eye.


I'd say it's already a ghost of its former self. For all we know, such
an in-your-face crisis would actually galvanize our country to new
levels of achievement. It's happened before (e.g. WWII), and maybe it
could happen again. Call me an optimist.

Did you know George Bush cancelled an ambitious
NASA Space Solar Power program, which could ultimately
lead to the US becoming the energy "King" of the future?
And replaced that program with another moon shot?


He did?!? A moon shot?!? Who knew?

I'm being a little facetious, but then, you're being a little silly.
There was never an ambitious Space Solar Power program, and the VSE does
not replace it. If anything, VSE replaced the business-as-usual lack of
any plan at all, consisting entirely of LEO operations. It also removed
the Moon Taboo which has been holding back progress in space development
for decades.

And by the way, if you're serious about large-scale SSP, then you should
know that lunar resources are an absolute requirement for it to ever be
practical. Maybe you should stop railing against the progress that's
finally being made in that direction.

More ...moon rocks... instead of ensuring our future?


Grow up.

During the next Presidential election, we need to demand
the wasteful return to the moon be 'aborted' and this program
below be ....reinstated.


Nonsense. Your lack of vision and desire to circumvent your own stated
goals are astounding.

This is the path to replacing fossil fuels for the long term.


I doubt it. It's a reasonable option worth exploring, but I now suspect
that polywell fusion could be developed far faster and more cheaply than
even the first full-scale SSP plant could be brought online.

http://www.strout.net/info/science/polywell/

Clearly, there's more than one possible way to crack the energy nut, and
each one needs to be evaluated and funded in a sensible manner. For
example, the next stage of polywell development will take about $5M;
this will reproduce and extend the very promising results of the last
WB-6 experiment, and should be enough to either prove the concept to the
doubters, or prove the doubters right. (Of course there will always be
a few holdouts no matter what the results.) If it's true, then we could
all be enjoying abundant, clean energy ten years and a few $100M later
-- money that wouldn't need to come from the government because private
investors would be tripping over each other to offer the best deal.

Compare this to the $88M funding request for 2002, which would have
produced... what? More paper studies, I imagine. The cost/benefit
ratio isn't even in the same ballpark.

Not that we shouldn't fund some SSP work too, in case other things don't
work out. But we have to look at the big picture, and consider all the
options.

BTW, if your ulterior motive for wanting SSP is that it would result in
robust space development -- a very sensible ulterior motive, BTW -- then
don't worry, because if polywell fusion works, it will open up the
entire solar system. You could go from the ground to the Moon in hours;
to Mars in days; to anywhere in the solar system in weeks. And oh yes,
you could probably build powersats for a fraction of the cost required
by chemical rockets.

But then, if your goal was to develop space, you wouldn't be trying to
sabotage the lunar program.

Let's make America the next energy "Saudi Arabia".


OK, good idea. But I'm no longer convinced that SSP is the way to do
that.

Best,
- Joe

--
"Polywell" fusion -- an approach to nuclear fusion that might actually work.
Learn more and discuss via: http://www.strout.net/info/science/polywell/
  #17  
Old July 17th 07, 04:53 PM posted to sci.geo.geology,sci.space.policy,us.military.army,alt.global-warming,sci.military.naval
Joe Strout
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Posts: 972
Default ...The Greatest Weakness of America!

In article ,
"Peter Muehlbauer" wrote:

and ordinary field weeds are better sources of ethanol than corn.


I see no reason why not burning fossil fuel, instead of burning food.


Because fossil fuels, by their very nature, release carbon that was
gathered over millions of years, and has been sequestered underground
for millions of years. Biofuels release carbon that was just captured
from the air last season; they're carbon-neutral.

I doubt ethanol will ever turn out to be very useful as a fuel, though;
DMF is more likely. Researchers recently found a new catalytic process
that makes DMF production much more practical than it was before. See,
for example,
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/06/070620154945.htm.

Best,
- Joe

--
"Polywell" fusion -- an approach to nuclear fusion that might actually work.
Learn more and discuss via: http://www.strout.net/info/science/polywell/
  #18  
Old July 17th 07, 05:09 PM posted to sci.geo.geology,sci.space.policy,us.military.army,alt.global-warming,sci.military.naval
Andrew Chaplin
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Posts: 15
Default ...The Greatest Weakness of America!

"Rich" wrote in message
. ..
Peter Muehlbauer wrote:
"Rand Simberg" wrote
On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:27:57 -0400, in a place far, far away,
"Jonathan" made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:

I've seen such panic situations with my own eyes
several times, as i live in Miami. Trust me when I say
when the day comes the world realizes the oil party
is over, it'll all come crashing down ....overnight.

Not a steady decline, but in a panic.
Nonsense. "Peak oil" is a myth. We have huge reserves in shale and
tar sands, which become economically viable at prices below the
current ones.


Just an hour ago, there was a documentation on german TV about
a farmer in Tennesee, who found oil on his land by flike.
An oil company then was exploring his land and found lots of oil
although there hasn't thought to be oil.
They now convey about 4000 barrels a week from there.
I think, the earth has still a lot of oil, it has only to be found.


Was his name Jed Clampett? :-)


Exactly my thought: someone has been re-running the Beverly Hillbillies.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)


  #19  
Old July 17th 07, 07:43 PM posted to sci.geo.geology,sci.space.policy,us.military.army,alt.global-warming,sci.military.naval
Peter Muehlbauer
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Posts: 45
Default ...The Greatest Weakness of America!


"Rich" wrote
Peter Muehlbauer wrote:
"Rand Simberg" wrote
On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:27:57 -0400, in a place far, far away,
"Jonathan" made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:

I've seen such panic situations with my own eyes
several times, as i live in Miami. Trust me when I say
when the day comes the world realizes the oil party
is over, it'll all come crashing down ....overnight.

Not a steady decline, but in a panic.
Nonsense. "Peak oil" is a myth. We have huge reserves in shale and
tar sands, which become economically viable at prices below the
current ones.


Just an hour ago, there was a documentation on german TV about
a farmer in Tennesee, who found oil on his land by flike.
An oil company then was exploring his land and found lots of oil
although there hasn't thought to be oil.
They now convey about 4000 barrels a week from there.
I think, the earth has still a lot of oil, it has only to be found.


Was his name Jed Clampett? :-)


No, it was real. No Hillbilly ;-)
  #20  
Old July 17th 07, 07:43 PM posted to sci.geo.geology,sci.space.policy,us.military.army,alt.global-warming,sci.military.naval
Peter Muehlbauer
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Posts: 45
Default ...The Greatest Weakness of America!


"Andrew Chaplin" wrote
"Rich" wrote in message
. ..
Peter Muehlbauer wrote:
"Rand Simberg" wrote
On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:27:57 -0400, in a place far, far away,
"Jonathan" made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:

I've seen such panic situations with my own eyes
several times, as i live in Miami. Trust me when I say
when the day comes the world realizes the oil party
is over, it'll all come crashing down ....overnight.

Not a steady decline, but in a panic.
Nonsense. "Peak oil" is a myth. We have huge reserves in shale and
tar sands, which become economically viable at prices below the
current ones.

Just an hour ago, there was a documentation on german TV about
a farmer in Tennesee, who found oil on his land by flike.
An oil company then was exploring his land and found lots of oil
although there hasn't thought to be oil.
They now convey about 4000 barrels a week from there.
I think, the earth has still a lot of oil, it has only to be found.


Was his name Jed Clampett? :-)


Exactly my thought: someone has been re-running the Beverly Hillbillies.


That was a documentation, no soap.
 




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