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Planetary climate spectrum



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 21st 13, 08:20 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
oriel36[_2_]
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Posts: 8,478
Default Planetary climate spectrum

The vocabulary of 'climate change' doesn't really enter the research
of an astronomer although it may for modelers interested in scaring
the wider population into paying higher taxes for no good reasonif
they are happy to pay then so well and good but a planet's climate is
fixed by its dynamics and fits within a spectrum.

On the basis that intelligent people who stop and dwell on the topic
for a moment and can work things out themselves without being lectured
to and gain a great satisfaction that way.The old view was that if a
planet had zero inclination it would have no seasons however this is
not entirely accurate and a much more productive assessment involves
switching the 'no seasons' perspective to an equatorial climate
whereas a planet with a 90 degree inclination has a polar climate.

The political system is taking advice from empirical modelers and not
astronomers and that is the real problem. Unlike the financial quants
which modeled entire countries into speculative penury,those who
traffic in astronomical/terrestrial topics are squandering
intellectual capital and undermining genuine research.

Climate research only really goes on in sci.astro.amateur as
everything else is competing models,graphs and what have you.Whatever
short term gain a politician may gain by promoting speculative
modeling instead of supporting interpretative research,the real losers
are students and people who really wish to read the climate history of
the planet through geological and biological evolution.
  #2  
Old January 21st 13, 08:22 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Sam Wormley[_2_]
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Default Planetary climate

Heat Transfer Basics
http://scienceofdoom.com/2010/09/12/...ics-part-zero/

Infrared Radiation and Planetary Temperature
http://geosci.uchicago.edu/~rtp1/pap...odayRT2011.pdf
http://geosci.uchicago.edu/~rtp1/papers/publist.html

Anthropogenic and Natural Warming Inferred from changes in Earth's Energy Balance
http://www.nature.com/ngeo/journal/v.../ngeo1327.html

Attribution of the present-day total greenhouse effect
http://pubs.giss.nasa.gov/docs/2010/...idt_etal_1.pdf


  #3  
Old January 21st 13, 10:32 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
oriel36[_2_]
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Posts: 8,478
Default Planetary climate

On Jan 21, 7:22*pm, Sam Wormley wrote:
Heat Transfer Basics
*http://scienceofdoom.com/2010/09/12/...ics-part-zero/


Infrared Radiation and Planetary Temperature
*http://geosci.uchicago.edu/~rtp1/pap...odayRT2011.pdf
*http://geosci.uchicago.edu/~rtp1/papers/publist.html


Anthropogenic and Natural Warming Inferred from changes in Earth's Energy Balance
*http://www.nature.com/ngeo/journal/v.../ngeo1327.html


Attribution of the present-day total greenhouse effect
*http://pubs.giss.nasa.gov/docs/2010/...idt_etal_1.pdf


All American students,including my own children,do not deserve to be
enslaved by a speculative modeling cult much less a population who is
expected to fund this disgrace that takes the name of science and not
just the USA but the communities of the rest of this planet.The
problem is not climate change but the ability of empiricists to change
their story to suit a prevailing attitude which is why you remain
silent on the morphing of the 'solar vs sidereal' story to the new one
where the planet turns exactly in 24 hours back in 1820 -

"At the time of the dinosaurs, Earth completed one rotation in about
23 hours," says MacMillan, who is a member of the VLBI team at NASA
Goddard. "In the year 1820, a rotation took exactly 24 hours, or
86,400 standard seconds. Since 1820, the mean solar day has increased
by about 2.5 milliseconds."

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/solarsyst...ra-second.html

Climate studies are not even in their infancy and without the
planetary climate spectrum they cannot begin at all,it takes only an
interpretative glance at Uranus to assign a polar climate to that
planet while the Earth is towards the equatorial end of the spectrum
with its 23 1/2 degree inclination.

http://www.daviddarling.info/images/...gs_changes.jpg

You come from an unstable empirical community that happens to own the
education system and a political system that is unable to handle the
sordid politics of a vicious strain of empiricism that has been
successful for many centuries by virtue that it can change
history,methods and insights to suit whatever bandwagon agenda is
being pursued.

There is nothing more dangerous out there at the moment than
politicians who talk of overwhelming 'scientific evidence' when they
are really supporting reckless and wayward modeling which knows no
physical considerations,no restraint on assertions and wildly adrift
of climate studies which are primarily framed in terms of planetary
dynamics and their respective traits.

When you and your colleagues can match one 24 hour AM/PM cycle with
one rotation,something you have not done yet,then you may begin to
consider planetary climate but with your insistence in bundling daily
and orbital motions into a rotating celestial sphere and right
ascension,this modeling scam which began with the aggressive Royal
Society strain of Newton will continue to decimate the intellectual
currency of all nations.
  #4  
Old January 21st 13, 10:41 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
oriel36[_2_]
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Posts: 8,478
Default Planetary climate spectrum

On Jan 21, 7:22*pm, Sam Wormley wrote:
Heat Transfer Basics
*http://scienceofdoom.com/2010/09/12/...ics-part-zero/


Infrared Radiation and Planetary Temperature
*http://geosci.uchicago.edu/~rtp1/pap...odayRT2011.pdf
*http://geosci.uchicago.edu/~rtp1/papers/publist.html


Anthropogenic and Natural Warming Inferred from changes in Earth's Energy Balance
*http://www.nature.com/ngeo/journal/v.../ngeo1327.html


Attribution of the present-day total greenhouse effect
*http://pubs.giss.nasa.gov/docs/2010/...idt_etal_1.pdf


How dare you remove the term spectrum from my original post .This is a
planet with a climate close to the polar end of the spectrum and the
rest follows -

http://www.daviddarling.info/images/...gs_changes.jpg

A planet with zero inclination has an equatorial climate rather than
the older perspective inherited from Copernicus that zero inclination
denotes 'no seasons' -

"the equator and the earth's axis must be understood to have a
variable inclination. For if they stayed at a constant angle, and were
affected exclusively by the motion of the centre, no inequality of
days and nights would be observed. On the contrary,it day or the day
of equal daylight and darkness, or summer or winter, or whatever the
character of the season, it would remain identical and unchanged."
Copernicus

This is a fight against speculative modelers,not against climate
research,so while the academics follow the considerable funding for
their agendas,the real science is developing planetary climate within
a spectrum and working things out from there.

  #5  
Old January 22nd 13, 10:39 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
badastrobuster
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Default Oriel 10th attempt at extracting an answer!

It doesn't seem long since Oriel36 said he was leaving the group. As I have said before his mental health issues prevent him from doing so - he quite literally cannot help himself from posting minor variations of same old rubbish again and again.

Notice how carefully Oriel, over a period of some years, has avoided explaining exactly where his views and the views of other members of this group differ. He writes whole paragraphs - sometimes nultiple paragraphs - hundreds of times a year but refuses to explain something as basic as this.

He also refuses to answer any questions designed to identify what the difference might be.

As an example - Oriel, if you look due south at midnight on July 1st and again at midnight on January 1st of the next year will you see the same stars in the same places.

Yes or no?
  #6  
Old January 22nd 13, 11:02 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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Posts: 7,018
Default Planetary climate

On Jan 21, 2:32*pm, oriel36 wrote:
which is why you remain
silent on the morphing of the 'solar vs sidereal' story to the new one
where the planet turns exactly in 24 hours back in 1820 -


This has already been explained to you. No one is changing any story,
it is simply that the additional complication of the Earth's true
rotation being sidereal (as made apparent by the presence of the
Equation of Time) is omitted where the issue is irrelevant.

John Savard
  #7  
Old January 22nd 13, 11:06 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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Posts: 7,018
Default Planetary climate spectrum

On Jan 21, 12:20*pm, oriel36 wrote:
a planet's climate is
fixed by its dynamics and fits within a spectrum.


You are correct that the degree of the Earth's inclination is
responsible for the relative prominence of the Arctic/Antarctic,
Temperate, and Tropical regions.

However, our proximity to the Sun, and the composition of our
atmosphere, do also play important roles.

John Savard
  #8  
Old January 22nd 13, 05:28 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Bill[_9_]
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Posts: 311
Default Oriel 10th attempt at extracting an answer!

On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 01:39:08 -0800 (PST), badastrobuster wrote:

It doesn't seem long since Oriel36 said he was leaving the group. As I have said before his mental health issues prevent him from doing so - he quite literally cannot help himself from posting minor variations of same old rubbish again and again.

Notice how carefully Oriel, over a period of some years, has avoided explaining exactly where his views and the views of other members of this group differ. He writes whole paragraphs - sometimes nultiple paragraphs - hundreds of times a year but refuses to explain something as basic as this.

He also refuses to answer any questions designed to identify what the difference might be.

As an example - Oriel, if you look due south at midnight on July 1st and again at midnight on January 1st of the next year will you see the same stars in the same places.

Yes or no?


You do not need to ride the "merry-go-round" with oriel... Mocking him
serves no good purpose.
Think of it as an option.

--
Email address is a Spam trap.
  #9  
Old January 22nd 13, 05:45 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
oriel36[_2_]
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Posts: 8,478
Default Planetary climate spectrum

This is what astronomers do,they observe and draw conclusions with the
information they have -

http://www.daviddarling.info/images/...gs_changes.jpg

Had the Earth the same rotational inclination as Uranus ,a polar
climate would exist where there would be large swings in temperature
and daylight/darkness conditions as the Earth orbited the Sun,a lesser
degree of inclination and the climate would move towards the
equatorial end of the spectrum until at zero inclination,equatorial
conditions would prevail apart from the normal variations in the
natural noon cycle which remains unaffected regardless of what the
inclination is.This is a vibrant and enjoyable way to understand
planetary climate and then move on to hemispherical subdivisions such
as the seasons .

With many billions upon billions spent annually on people who want to
extract money from the wider population under false pretenses,here is
the proper approach to climate by raising the standards and I take a
great deal of satisfactions that nuisances simply can't enjoy the
feeling of genuine discovery and especially the modification of the
original reasoning of Copernicus using modern tools.

Grumble on guys,while academics can influence politicians,they can't
handle astronomers with a genuine love of this great astronomical
discipline which rewards those who make an effort to interpret the
arena whether the terrestrial arena which depends on the great
planetary cycles or the wider structural arena as the Earth
participates in all the other motions going on.No need to wait on
anyone,just looking at the images of Uranus above opens up so many
lines of investigation that there is really no time to dwell on
nuisances and their narrow-minded views.


  #10  
Old January 22nd 13, 08:48 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Martin Nicholson
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Posts: 235
Default Oriel - 11th attempt to extract an answer

It doesn't seem long since Oriel36 said he was leaving the group. As I
have said before his mental health issues prevent him from doing so -
he quite literally cannot help himself from posting minor variations
of same old rubbish again and again.

Notice how carefully Oriel, over a period of some years, has avoided
explaining exactly where his views and the views of other members of
this group differ. He writes whole paragraphs - sometimes nultiple
paragraphs - hundreds of times a year but refuses to explain something
as basic as this.


He also refuses to answer any questions designed to identify what the
difference might be.


As an example - Oriel, if you look due south at midnight on July 1st
and again at midnight on January 1st of the next year will you see the
same stars in the same places.


Yes or no?


 




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