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What if (on Sun Wobble)



 
 
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  #41  
Old February 28th 09, 03:18 AM posted to alt.astronomy
BradGuth
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Posts: 21,544
Default What if (on Sun Wobble) + Uranius

On Feb 27, 1:36*pm, "Painius" wrote:
"oldcoot" wrote in message...

...

From Painius, replying to 'BG':


I was just asking you where you had
heard or read that our Solar system
experiences a wobbling cycle that has a
period of 105 to 110 thousand years.


I think he's referrin' to the presumed "oscillation" of the solar
system's pathway above and below the galactic plane, *theorized also to
trigger mass extinctions on a regular basis.


Possibly, but that's only supposed to happen 2.7 times per
galactic year (~225 - 250 million Earth years)...

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun#Loc...hin_the_galaxy

If one divides 225 by 2.7, it means that the Sun and Solar
system oscillate above and below the galactic plane with
a period of about 83.3 million years--much longer than
Brad's period of 105 to 110 thousand years.

So i think he's referring to the minor ice ages that have
taken place during the Pleistocene period. *Apparently, he
believes that close passages of Sol and Sirius may have
caused these ice ages and deposited such things as the
Moon and Venus in our Solar system. *Since he does not
appear to understand orbital dynamics any better than i
do, he doesn't accept the explanation given by a poster to
sci.astro several weeks ago, to wit...

The blue-shifted radial velocity between Sol and Sirius can
be plugged into an orbital-dynamics formula, which shows
without a doubt that Sirius cannot possibly be in any kind
of orbital relationship with the Sun.

Being a lover of math, i tend to go with this reality. YMMV


I tend to favor whatever a good supercomputer simulation of stellar
orbital interactions might suggest. Otherwise the 11,711 year old
termination of the last ice age this planet Earth w/Selene will ever
see, is objectively good to go. Since you have nothing better to
offer, why should we ignore all other science, simply because it
doesn't help your side of this argument?

~ BG
  #42  
Old February 28th 09, 09:35 AM posted to alt.astronomy
Painius Painius is offline
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Posts: 4,144
Default What if (on Sun Wobble) + Uranius

"BradGuth" wrote in message...
...

I tend to favor whatever a good supercomputer simulation of stellar
orbital interactions might suggest. Otherwise the 11,711 year old
termination of the last ice age this planet Earth w/Selene will ever
see, is objectively good to go. Since you have nothing better to
offer, why should we ignore all other science, simply because it
doesn't help your side of this argument?

~ BG


Well, i certainly have nothing better than that crystal ball
you seem to like to rub now and then. OTOH, i am a little
familiar with the rain cycles of Africa, which correspond to
the ice ages. And while these cycles do indicate that an
ice age might be very long in coming, there will probably
be another some day perhaps 500 thousand to a million
years from now.

And unfortunately for the many African peoples around the
Sahara, we can look to see that desert continuing to march
southward, expanding into what are now very green areas.

And as far as ignoring science, that's the last thing i would
ever suggest for anyone to do, you putz. g

happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Indelibly yours,
Paine Ellsworth

P.S.: "Convinced myself, I seek not to convince."
E. A. Poe


P.P.S.: http://Astronomy.painellsworth.net
http://PoisonFalls.painellsworth.net
http://TheInternetStory.painellsworth.net


  #43  
Old February 28th 09, 10:22 AM posted to alt.astronomy
Painius Painius is offline
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Default What if (on Sun Wobble) + Uranius

Oh, yeah? BULL****? Okay, how many people besides you
helped Helmut Abt win the very first prestigious GVB prize to
be awarded by the American Astronomical Society in 1997?

And what about 9423 Abt? a minor planet named for your
boss? Was that his honor alone? or did other people help
him along the way so he could be so honored?

What? Saul? Weren't you a member of Abt's "team"???

Did Ralph Elmer Wilson compile that General Catalogue of
Stellar Radial Velocities star catalog all by his lonesome? or
did he reference the Catalog of Individual Radial Velocities
published in the Astrophysical Journal Supplement 26,
December 1973, by none other than Helmut A. Abt of the
Mount Wilson Observatory?

You can resist all you like, Saul. Astronomy is teamwork,
and the great ones almost always have lots of help while
they become great.

And the greatest ones, the ones who are long-remembered,
share the credit with each and every member on their team,

....don't they?

"Saul Levy" wrote in message...
news

That's BULL****, Paine! lmfjao!

Nothing more. Another romantic notion with NO basis in fact.

Saul Levy


On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 21:55:59 GMT, "Painius"
wrote:

Whad-dever.

Still looks like teamwork to me, especially when one considers
that, while the calculating astronomers, Le Verrier and Adams,
are given the "credit" for the discovery of planet Neptune, many
of the others, whom you call "actual discoverers" of various
planets and other Solar system objects, have also been given
honorable mention in several historical texts. And all of these
great astronomers had "gofers", such as those with "junior
author status", at their sides to help with the more mundane
duties of astronomy.

You're just being argumentative on this issue. Or *maybe*...

Maybe *you* are still at issue with something in your past that
is the root cause of your "denial"? hth-lmfaao!

"Saul Levy" wrote in message...
. ..

There were no teams, Paine!

I used to be one of those and discoveries were NOT left for me to
find. My ex-boss at Kitt Peak was very nice and fair and gave me
junior author status on all of our papers. Many astronomers to this
day hate to give full credit for such things.

The actual discoverers were AT DIFFERENT OBSERVATORIES from where the
calculations were made. Often in DIFFERENT COUNTRIES! Your TEAMS are
ROMANTIC NONSENSE!

Saul Levy


On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 18:29:29 GMT, "Painius"
wrote:

"Saul Levy" wrote in message...
m...

Not quite correct, Paine!

There were NO TEAMS back then. Both Le Verrier and Adams spread the
word about their calculations and OTHER ASTRONOMERS did the searching
for Neptune.

And i consider that teamwork, Saul. Besides, didn't those
astronomers back then have assistants and "go fers" and
such? people to do much of the legwork, footwork, etc?



happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Indelibly yours,
Paine Ellsworth

P.S.: "Convinced myself, I seek not to convince."
E. A. Poe


P.P.S.: http://Astronomy.painellsworth.net
http://PoisonFalls.painellsworth.net
http://TheInternetStory.painellsworth.net


  #44  
Old February 28th 09, 01:02 PM posted to alt.astronomy
G=EMC^2 Glazier[_1_]
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Posts: 10,860
Default What if (on Sun Wobble) + Uranius

Double A & Paine Team work works so well,and astronomers like to work
in teams. Many telescopes were focus on Jupiter as for the first time a
comet was shown hitting a planet. Double A now that we can use radar to
measure distance so very accurately I wonder what the distance is from
Earth to Sun? Could it be down to feet? TreBert

  #45  
Old February 28th 09, 01:19 PM posted to alt.astronomy
G=EMC^2 Glazier[_1_]
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Posts: 10,860
Default What if (on Sun Wobble) + Uranius

Painius Even when I think alone great thoughts I know I am standing on
the shoulders of Feynman Einstein Bohr Hubble Wheeler Sagan Born and so
many others. No man can call his thoughts his own. no man can stand
alone. No man is an island. Alt. Astronomy proves this to me every day
TreBert

  #46  
Old February 28th 09, 11:09 PM posted to alt.astronomy
Painius Painius is offline
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First recorded activity by SpaceBanter: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,144
Default What if (on Sun Wobble) + Uranius

Galileo certainly had his followers who helped him whenever
they could. One that comes to mind, one of his many disciples,
Mario Guiducci, helped Galileo with a controversial work titled
_Discourse on the Comets_.

No man is a complete island unto himself.

(After rereading that last sentence, i find myself thinking that i
ought to practice what i preach! g)

"Saul Levy" wrote in message...
...

You read that biography I posted, Paine? Did you find MY NAME in it?

No, you didn't. Helmut is a wonderful astronomer and a very nice
person. He would have been famous even if he NEVER had anyone helping
him.

You're blowing the "team" thing way out of proportion. Did Galileo
have a "team?"

One thing about awards is that EVERYONE of any note at all will
eventually get some award(s). Astronomy is no different in this than
any other science.

I noted a long time ago that THERE ARE TOO MANY AWARDS which dilutes
their value. I find the number of awards DISGUSTING!

Saul Levy


On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:22:44 GMT, "Painius"
wrote:

Oh, yeah? BULL****? Okay, how many people besides you
helped Helmut Abt win the very first prestigious GVB prize to
be awarded by the American Astronomical Society in 1997?

And what about 9423 Abt? a minor planet named for your
boss? Was that his honor alone? or did other people help
him along the way so he could be so honored?

What? Saul? Weren't you a member of Abt's "team"???

Did Ralph Elmer Wilson compile that General Catalogue of
Stellar Radial Velocities star catalog all by his lonesome? or
did he reference the Catalog of Individual Radial Velocities
published in the Astrophysical Journal Supplement 26,
December 1973, by none other than Helmut A. Abt of the
Mount Wilson Observatory?

You can resist all you like, Saul. Astronomy is teamwork,
and the great ones almost always have lots of help while
they become great.

And the greatest ones, the ones who are long-remembered,
share the credit with each and every member on their team,

...don't they?

"Saul Levy" wrote in message...
news

That's BULL****, Paine! lmfjao!

Nothing more. Another romantic notion with NO basis in fact.

Saul Levy


On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 21:55:59 GMT, "Painius"
wrote:

Whad-dever.

Still looks like teamwork to me, especially when one considers
that, while the calculating astronomers, Le Verrier and Adams,
are given the "credit" for the discovery of planet Neptune, many
of the others, whom you call "actual discoverers" of various
planets and other Solar system objects, have also been given
honorable mention in several historical texts. And all of these
great astronomers had "gofers", such as those with "junior
author status", at their sides to help with the more mundane
duties of astronomy.

You're just being argumentative on this issue. Or *maybe*...

Maybe *you* are still at issue with something in your past that
is the root cause of your "denial"? hth-lmfaao!

"Saul Levy" wrote in message...
m...

There were no teams, Paine!

I used to be one of those and discoveries were NOT left for me to
find. My ex-boss at Kitt Peak was very nice and fair and gave me
junior author status on all of our papers. Many astronomers to this
day hate to give full credit for such things.

The actual discoverers were AT DIFFERENT OBSERVATORIES from where the
calculations were made. Often in DIFFERENT COUNTRIES! Your TEAMS are
ROMANTIC NONSENSE!

Saul Levy


On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 18:29:29 GMT, "Painius"
wrote:

"Saul Levy" wrote in message...
news:v5b2q45mgr258p7t5fuq5obohnvm8vorac@4ax. com...

Not quite correct, Paine!

There were NO TEAMS back then. Both Le Verrier and Adams spread the
word about their calculations and OTHER ASTRONOMERS did the
searching
for Neptune.

And i consider that teamwork, Saul. Besides, didn't those
astronomers back then have assistants and "go fers" and
such? people to do much of the legwork, footwork, etc?



happy days and...
starry starry nights!


happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Indelibly yours,
Paine Ellsworth

P.S.: "Convinced myself, I seek not to convince."
E. A. Poe


P.P.S.: http://Astronomy.painellsworth.net
http://PoisonFalls.painellsworth.net
http://TheInternetStory.painellsworth.net


  #47  
Old February 28th 09, 11:20 PM posted to alt.astronomy
BradGuth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21,544
Default What if (on Sun Wobble) + Uranius

On Feb 28, 12:35*am, "Painius" wrote:
"BradGuth" wrote in message...

...



I tend to favor whatever a good supercomputer simulation of stellar
orbital interactions might suggest. *Otherwise the 11,711 year old
termination of the last ice age this planet Earth w/Selene will ever
see, is objectively good to go. *Since you have nothing better to
offer, why should we ignore all other science, simply because it
doesn't help your side of this argument?


*~ BG


Well, i certainly have nothing better than that crystal ball
you seem to like to rub now and then. *OTOH, i am a little
familiar with the rain cycles of Africa, which correspond to
the ice ages. *And while these cycles do indicate that an
ice age might be very long in coming, there will probably
be another some day perhaps 500 thousand to a million
years from now.


Why so gosh darn long away, as according to those ice core samples, we
should have been dropping into our next ice age cycle as is?

btw, our sun is not going to cool down for quite some time, so don't
count your lucky stars on that one for accommodating our next ice age.


And unfortunately for the many African peoples around the
Sahara, we can look to see that desert continuing to march
southward, expanding into what are now very green areas.

And as far as ignoring science, that's the last thing i would
ever suggest for anyone to do, you putz. *g


But in affect and going by your actions, that's exactly what your
mainstream obfuscation amounts to.

~ BG
  #48  
Old February 28th 09, 11:26 PM posted to alt.astronomy
BradGuth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21,544
Default What if (on Sun Wobble) + Uranius

On Feb 28, 4:02*am, (G=EMC^2 Glazier) wrote:
Double A & Paine *Team work works so well,and astronomers like to work
in teams. *Many telescopes were focus on Jupiter as for the first time a
comet was shown hitting a planet. *Double A now that we can use radar to
measure distance so very accurately I wonder what the distance is from
Earth to Sun? *Could it be down to feet? * *TreBert


We should be good for at least a resolution of +/- one meter.

Since Earth is losing mass, are we moving closer?

Or, is our sun losing its mass at a faster ratio than us?

~ BG
  #49  
Old February 28th 09, 11:30 PM posted to alt.astronomy
BradGuth
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Posts: 21,544
Default What if (on Sun Wobble) + Uranius

On Feb 28, 4:19*am, (G=EMC^2 Glazier) wrote:
Painius *Even when I think alone great thoughts I know I am standing on
the shoulders of Feynman Einstein Bohr Hubble Wheeler Sagan Born and so
many others. *No man can call his thoughts his own. no man can stand
alone. No man is an island. *Alt. Astronomy proves this to me every day
TreBert


But each and every mainstream astronomy buff is absolutely certain
that our government and its trusty agencies never lies or otherwise
obfuscates. How about yourself (got truth, or are we stuck with
whatever your mainstream status quo has to say)?

~ BG
  #50  
Old February 28th 09, 11:33 PM posted to alt.astronomy
Painius Painius is offline
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Default What if (on Sun Wobble) + Uranius

"G=EMC^2 Glazier" wrote...
in message ...

Painius Even when I think alone great thoughts I know I am standing on
the shoulders of Feynman Einstein Bohr Hubble Wheeler Sagan Born and so
many others. No man can call his thoughts his own. no man can stand
alone. No man is an island. Alt. Astronomy proves this to me every day
TreBert


Of course, the flip-side to that idea for a scientist is that
it tends to deplete the individual responsibility one still
must possess for whatever idea or ideas that one comes
up with based upon "standing on the shoulders" of past
great scientists.

Case in point would be the goings-on with the LHC and
the loud public outcry against it. The good scientist must
publish a readable, understandable explanation that
alleviates the worries of the mob. For this to go undone,
or to be done incompetently, is a travesty to science and
a blight on the good names and shoulders upon which
today's physicists stand.

All i've seen so far from science is trash that makes the
mob feel like idiots, and it just ****es lay-people off and
makes them even more apprehensive about the LHC.
Simply saying, "There is no way anything bad will happen
when the LHC is fired up," just ain't gonna hack it with
the mob. People want BELIEVABLE ASSURANCE, and i
have yet to see this being done, or even attempted.

happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Indelibly yours,
Paine Ellsworth

P.S.: "Convinced myself, I seek not to convince."
E. A. Poe


P.P.S.: http://Astronomy.painellsworth.net
http://PoisonFalls.painellsworth.net
http://TheInternetStory.painellsworth.net


 




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