Sagnac Idiocy

"JM Albuquerque" wrote in message
...

"Jeckyl" escreveu na mensagem
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"Dono" wrote in message
s.com...
On Sep 16, 1:24 am, "Androcles" wrote:
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonde...gnacIdiocy.htm



Umm, no. Here is a correct explanation:

http://www.mathpages.com/rr/s2-07/2-07.htm

We know .. Adrocles left the reference to the pae from which he snipped
part of the explanation in his page

He just doesn't understand Sagnac nor SR nor the maths involved .. more
to the point, he doesn't WANT to know, because then it would prove him
wrong. He'd rather stay in blissful ignorance and feel justified in
calling the rest of the world fool. What a sad little person he must be.


What I love the most about this article:
http://www.mathpages.com/rr/s2-07/2-07.htm
is the following:
««Typically wT is extremely small, i.e., the polygon doesn't rotate
through a very large angle in the time it takes light to go from one
mirror to the next, so we can expand these equations in wT (up to
second order) and collect powers of T to give the quadratic...»»

WHAT THE **** IS THIS ?

You don't know .. yet you're willing to go on the attack?

Rotation is defined by:
x = R sin (wt)
y = R cos (wt)

and the moron of that article says that "wt" is extremely small ?

So ROTATION is gone out of the problem ?

No .. you've obviously misunderstood. Rotation is not gone at all.

And the final is also lovely:

Yes .. it is

««It's worth emphasizing that the Sagnac effect is purely a
classical, not a relativistic phenomenon, because it's a
"differential device", i.e., by running the light rays around
the loop in opposite directions and measuring the time
difference, it effectively cancels out the "transverse" effects
characteristic of truly relativistic phenomenon.»»

Translation.
The article can't explain ****.

No .. it means it isn't dependant on the disc rotating really fast to get
some 'weird' relativistic dilation/contraction happening. Its just saying
the Sagnac is simple and doesn't involve the more complex calculations that
high speeds usually involve when taking relativity into account.

In no place it concerns relativity
but he shows nice equations for the "moron reader" that didn't
even notice that all the written crap is about classical mechanics.

Pure waste of time.

Yes .. you are

BTW, what are those "transverse" effects that define the
truly relativistic phenomenon.

Why bother explaining it to you .. it would be a pure waste of time

"Jeckyl" wrote:

Nothing.

"Dono" escreveu na mensagem
oups.com...
On Sep 16, 4:52 pm, "JM Albuquerque" wrote:

BTW, what are those "transverse" effects that define the
truly relativistic phenomenon.

I would rxplain that to you but you don't understand the most
elementary stuff. He's talking about TDE.

Sure, jackass.

BTW, fix your computer problem that doesn't quote
your lines of text, moron.

On Sep 16, 5:28 pm, "JM Albuquerque" wrote:
"Dono" escreveu na mensagemnews:1189987833.873578.187250@r29g2000hsg. googlegroups.com...
On Sep 16, 4:52 pm, "JM Albuquerque" wrote:



BTW, what are those "transverse" effects that define the
truly relativistic phenomenon.

I would rxplain that to you but you don't understand the most
elementary stuff. He's talking about TDE.

Sure, jackass.

BTW, fix your computer problem that doesn't quote
your lines of text, moron.

So , what is TDE,fat stupid asshole?

"JM Albuquerque" wrote in message
...

"Jeckyl" wrote:

Nothing.

JM Albuquerque understood

Nothing

If you had read what I'd written I explained some of your concerns

"Jeckyl" escreveu na mensagem
...
"Androcles" wrote in message
. uk...
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonde...gnacIdiocy.htm

Yeup .. your Q and A at the end is idiocy alright.

You obviously don't understand SR or Sagnac.

And note that the animation you show is incomplete (you stop it before the
beams return to the source .. I wonder why), and shows the ballistic
theory prediction that the pulses will meet the source at the same place
at the same time and so with no phase difference, which does not give the
observed results (Sagnac refutes ballistic theories and support SR ad
ether theories).

From my point of view you are the one that don't understand
what Sagnac's "invention" is.

This is plain simple.
Sagnac is a direct measument of the speed of light taken
by an observer moving at "2v".

Let's look at the setup:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:S...rferometer.png

The beam of light (the source) is stationary.
The detector is stationary.
The 4-mirrors rotate rigidly.

Let's assume by hypothesis that we can spin those mirrors very fast.
About half the speed of light or so.
And let's assume that we want to measure the one-way speed of
light (clockwise for instance). Forget the counter-clockwise ray
of light.

Since we have a very high spin, it will be possibly to measure
the one-way speed of light by doing the following comparison:

We need to compare the speed of light measured by a set of
4-mirrors stationary, with that measured by a Sagnag 4-mirrors
spinning at half the speed of light.

We need to have two similar apparatus, one stationary and
other spinning very fast. Then compare the frequency measurements
and say that the relative speed of light measured by observers
will the subtraction of the read frequencies?

The problem is that we cannot have such high speeds and
we still need to guarantee full coherence of two separate beams
of light.

The great invention about Sagnac's setup are two things that
its achieves (specially the second):
1 - To double the possible angular speed;
2 - To achieve means that the same beam of light could be
used as a source and also to provide means of detection,
so that the all apparatus guarantee that full coherence exists and
so we simply can measure the most tiny variation on the speed
of light by means of the most tiny shift in frequency.

Basically, on the Sagnac's apparatus the same beam of light
is used for readings on a stationary FoR and simultaneously
read on the rotating FoR, all at once.
In fact, we don't have such stationary FoR, but everybody
works the problem based on it, then deduce the vary same
reasoning for the other way around, and say that in the final
they cancel each other out to give the stationary FoR taken
in first place.

The really ingenious about Sagnac is that it achieves means
to have the same beam of light to interfere with itself.

Most certainly this sounds bad, but if you really think
about it and forget religions... and see the obvious.

"JM Albuquerque" wrote in message
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"Jeckyl" escreveu na mensagem
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"Androcles" wrote in message
. uk...
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonde...gnacIdiocy.htm

Yeup .. your Q and A at the end is idiocy alright.

You obviously don't understand SR or Sagnac.

And note that the animation you show is incomplete (you stop it before
the beams return to the source .. I wonder why), and shows the ballistic
theory prediction that the pulses will meet the source at the same place
at the same time and so with no phase difference, which does not give the
observed results (Sagnac refutes ballistic theories and support SR ad
ether theories).

From my point of view you are the one that don't understand
what Sagnac's "invention" is.

Your point of view appears flawed

This is plain simple.
Sagnac is a direct measument of the speed of light taken
by an observer moving at "2v".

No .. its a means of calculating rotation by looking at the interference
patterm from two beams of light going in a clockwise and anti-clockwise
direction

Let's look at the setup:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:S...rferometer.png

I know the set up .. but lets see what you have to say...

The beam of light (the source) is stationary.

No .. it rotates with the plaform

The detector is stationary.

No .. it rotates with the plaform

The 4-mirrors rotate rigidly.

No .. they rotate with the plaform

The whole thing is rigid on a platform and the platform rotates .. light
source, mirrors and detectors and all. If that platform is fixed on the
earth, then it measures the rotation of the earth (which has been done)

Looks like you don't understand the Sagnac setup

[snip conclusions from incorrect initial premises]

"Jeckyl" escreveu na mensagem
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"JM Albuquerque" wrote in message
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"Jeckyl" escreveu na mensagem
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"Androcles" wrote in message
. uk...
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonde...gnacIdiocy.htm

Yeup .. your Q and A at the end is idiocy alright.

You obviously don't understand SR or Sagnac.

And note that the animation you show is incomplete (you stop it before
the beams return to the source .. I wonder why), and shows the ballistic
theory prediction that the pulses will meet the source at the same place
at the same time and so with no phase difference, which does not give
the observed results (Sagnac refutes ballistic theories and support SR
ad ether theories).

From my point of view you are the one that don't understand
what Sagnac's "invention" is.

Your point of view appears flawed

This is plain simple.
Sagnac is a direct measument of the speed of light taken
by an observer moving at "2v".

No .. its a means of calculating rotation by looking at the interference
patterm from two beams of light going in a clockwise and anti-clockwise
direction

Let's look at the setup:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:S...rferometer.png

I know the set up .. but lets see what you have to say...

The beam of light (the source) is stationary.

No .. it rotates with the plaform

The detector is stationary.

No .. it rotates with the plaform

The 4-mirrors rotate rigidly.

No .. they rotate with the plaform

The whole thing is rigid on a platform and the platform rotates .. light
source, mirrors and detectors and all. If that platform is fixed on the
earth, then it measures the rotation of the earth (which has been done)


That's funny.
If the whole thing is rigid what the **** are they measuring?

The speed of light through space?




Looks like you don't understand the Sagnac setup

[snip conclusions from incorrect initial premises]


Agree.

"JM Albuquerque" wrote in message
...

"Jeckyl" escreveu na mensagem
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"JM Albuquerque" wrote in message
...

"Jeckyl" escreveu na mensagem
...
"Androcles" wrote in message
. uk...
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonde...gnacIdiocy.htm

Yeup .. your Q and A at the end is idiocy alright.

You obviously don't understand SR or Sagnac.

And note that the animation you show is incomplete (you stop it before
the beams return to the source .. I wonder why), and shows the
ballistic theory prediction that the pulses will meet the source at the
same place at the same time and so with no phase difference, which does
not give the observed results (Sagnac refutes ballistic theories and
support SR ad ether theories).

From my point of view you are the one that don't understand
what Sagnac's "invention" is.

Your point of view appears flawed

This is plain simple.
Sagnac is a direct measument of the speed of light taken
by an observer moving at "2v".

No .. its a means of calculating rotation by looking at the interference
patterm from two beams of light going in a clockwise and anti-clockwise
direction

Let's look at the setup:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:S...rferometer.png

I know the set up .. but lets see what you have to say...

The beam of light (the source) is stationary.

No .. it rotates with the plaform

The detector is stationary.

No .. it rotates with the plaform

The 4-mirrors rotate rigidly.

No .. they rotate with the plaform

The whole thing is rigid on a platform and the platform rotates .. light
source, mirrors and detectors and all. If that platform is fixed on the
earth, then it measures the rotation of the earth (which has been done)


That's funny.
If the whole thing is rigid what the **** are they measuring?

I already told you

Its a means of calculating rotation by looking at the interference patterm
from two beams of light going in a clockwise and anti-clockwise direction

The speed of light through space?

No .. the rotation of the apparatus as a whole. The source, detector, and
mirrors are all fixed on a platform .. and it is the rotation of that
platform that is detected.

Looks like you don't understand the Sagnac setup
[snip conclusions from incorrect initial premises]
Agree.

My respects for that acknowledgement .. few here would do so

"Dirk Van de moortel" wrote
in t-ops.be...







"George Dishman" wrote in message
...

"Jerry" wrote in message
roups.com...
On Sep 16, 8:27 am, "Jeckyl" wrote:
"Androcles" wrote in message
.co.uk...
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonde...gnacIdiocy.htm

Yeup .. your Q and A at the end is idiocy alright.

You obviously don't understand SR or Sagnac.

And note that the animation you show is incomplete (you stop
it before the beams return to the source .. I wonder why),

Androcles obviously misunderstands the Sagnac experimental
setup, and believes that interference fringes are formed on a
screen mounted in the stationary inertial frame. The c+v
and c-v beams would arrive at the stationary screen out of
phase with respect to each other, whereas beams emitted at c
would alway arrive in phase at the stationary screen.

He did at first but some time ago, this was discussed
in some detail. He posted an analogy of kids on a
roundabout being watched by grandad on the ground. If
you search for the phrase "grandad is on the roundabout"
you should find the thread.

If you see some of his other illustrations, he also fails
to grasp the mirror orientation. He shows the light
reflecting continuously round a loop which is the ring
gyro configuration, he has a 90 degree error in the beam
splitter orientation.

I have you seen his MMX-mirror orientation on
http://users.telenet.be/vdmoortel/di.../AndroMMX.html

Yep, and so simple too.

See how many errors you can find he

http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonde...nac/Sagnac.htm

The obvious one is his rotating box and 'spirograph'
picture compared to the correct configuration:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:S...rferometer.png

George

Protest. Tarnishing crimes.

Crazy.

Madness.

Sick. A billion tarnishing blacklisting posts. You are crazy. Hurting
people, you need
a German dog up your ass.

Let me guess what kind of a person walks in the street and yells
blacklist people
to everybody.

CCCP. Tavarish, and everything idiot idiot idiot yelled by the higher
comrades.

Stalin.

Stalin and his big laughter. Everybody is an idiot.

My Russian grandmother said: "Everybody hated him, but he was around
for 30 years."

Tarnish tavarish CCCP and PPPC, tarnish the future. Do not allow
anybody come close to our system as it is the winning system.
"Raise number executed to 5000 a week" - he said, and the
relentless aptitude prevailed, people sickened but didn't
know how to say no to all this. People starving, he made
decisions over the poorest, be it death or relocation to
Eastern Siberia, gulags, he prevailed and didn't want to
believe when Hitler attacked him. "That idiot wants to
mess with me?" Everybody laughed.


Stalin killed 40 million in peace time and prospered, his mind
relentless.


Relentless.


Cold.


Relentless: absolutely indiscriminate. Power addict. Seeking
conspiracies at all times even in closed circles. Untrustable.
Repelling. Overlooking. Greedy. On top, making men dance in
parties. Crazy. The most immense. Runs a system, no excuses.
Totalitarian. Monster. An image of fear. Mass murdered, I better
**** off.


The Core. The Central Force of the Universe. The Icon of Mass Love.


The most killer type individual by all psychology. The World's
Coldest
Mind.


All for all, and no exceptions or face mass murder. Massive,
heartless, and yet lives for the heart, incentive, genius,
BUT THE MOST FEARED AND TERRORED, AND TERRORIST HE IS WHEN
IT COMES TO LIFE. THAT TO HIM HAS ONLY ONE MEANING. THE
SYSTEM, FOR WHICH ALL MUST STAND AND TAKE THE COURSE TO
THE END EVEN IF IT MEANS THE DEATH OF HALF THE COUNTRY.


Chronic criminal.


Everything around him revolves around murder. Disgrace. Fear. And
tarnishing.


Everything he did was crimes against humanity, terrorism
of hundreds of millions, all for him, all for his beliefs,
the most horrible monster ever born on Earth.


Crimes against humanity. That's for the Internet.


As humanity you repress, as psycho madness you stirr among
others who sympathize, as tortures prison style develop,
as madness discriminates, it does not stop, you take pride
in repression, you terrorize.


Namecalling is like the taliban, irresponsible damage
indiscriminatively, chronic abuse of people on the Internet,
violation of civil rights, supremacy, engagement in torture,
abuse as in Abu Ghraib, VIOLATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS,
STALKING MILLIONS OF PEOPLE, ...thousands, and always
blinded, arrogant, clinically ill, derranged of not seeing
harm, humanity. Insane, and don't care about life, always
hurtingly elite, but the relentlessness that humanity cannot
stand, be it insane, cowardly, in any form of absolutist
ignorance, the clinical abuse of rights you induce to
others deserves a crimes against humanity sentence for
living in human rights violations, unstoppable harming,
disillusioned,
and highly stalking of ordinary human life, be it young or old.


To possess others is a condition of being derranged, mad.


By all human rights you are in violation, torturing through
chronic namecalling in pervasiveness and arrogance in
regards to peace and basic rights of people online.
You cannot chronically abuse people, their dignity online.


If I'd be American I'd do a citizen arrest, but consider
yourself guilty of crimes against humanity for torture.


You can't show a personality, attention, as nobody should face that.


You are very ill and dangerous.


One more use of the word idiot online or any similar harrassment
and you may end up in jail.


Inclination.


Pervasive ridicule.


Arrogance.


Cyber crime.


Abuse of rights.


Molestation.


Humiliation.


Racism.


Perversion.


Torture.


Excessive bullying and stalking.


Unwelcome offenses, ongoing, discriminating, violating
indiscriminately abusive, psychotic, mad.


Sadism. Clinical abuse. Chronic offenses. Ongoing stalking.
Ridiculing
valneurable people.
Abusing, stalking, torturing, and eventually it has to end, it is not
welcome, I don't call people I don't know idiots. It is mad,
provocative, looking down on people, scares people and hurts people.
Excessive, careless, and extremely derranged, nobody dares to mess
with Dishman. Guess why, greed. Abusive stalker, monster of
everything, provoker in ways unwelcome by human rights. Molester and
relentless, relentless, the coldest and most ignorant, never
changing,
never giving, never allowing human contact, never compromising, only
addictedly setting conditions around himself and repressing, that is
all that is known, and nothing else will be known.


Crazy, but not harmless crazy.


Wicked, but arrogantly pursuing humiliation, inflicting stalking,
human rights violations.


Violation of individual rights by stalking. Corruption. Neglegent
abuse.


Up to 18 months in jail for criminal stalking, deserved.


First warning.


Human rights. You don't attack people you don't know and humiliate
indiscriminately. You can't build a name for being that, as you
hurt valneurable people. You are not on Jerry Springer show here.
You are not welcome.


You need to understand what welcome means when you attack somebody
and cause discomfort. You don't go into somebody's house and call the
person an idiot.


Game over or go to jail. I give you a crimes against humanity
sentence
for addicted torture of human rights.


Discrimination in human rights. Abuse of rights, molestation, offense
US street language, CHRONIC stalking and abuse, a raving tarnishing
idiot, unethical, vengful, HUMILIATING, criminal by all means.


Valneurable people, then chronic supremacy of tarnishing as a
tavarish, tarnish good, leave damage, take pride, I'll kick your
balls in your long socks. Corruption of human rights, corruption
of addicted molestation, cyber crimes, radical pursuit by tarnishing
madness.


Tarnishing madness, and repelling.


Tarnishing madness takes place in places like in Texas where riot
police are around where people of all ages go out on weekends. Riot
police wearing black outfits and riot helmets are present for
tarnishing people, and cannot speak to anyone but await government
orders. Like in Tienenmen Square, expressing INTOLERANCE toward the
same things China banned their citizens from on Tianenmen Square.
Relentlessness prevails big brother as tarnish tavarish tarnishing
madness.


Repressor. Abundant. Loonatic. Schizophrenic. Murderer.


Crimes against humanity.


Guess what. Human rights won't be compromising either. Some things
are
not allowed.


Where is your army now? I remember it.


http://www.earthstation1.com/Warpost...n_leads_jk.jpg



Fallen. With it's relentless cause.