Star Distances

On 11 Jul 2006 09:43:43 -0700, "Hurt"
Gave us:

It depends on how close and where this "thing" is.

Oh yeah... that wad of horse**** that has taken the place of a
brain in your skull cavity...

That's about as close as it gets for you, boy.

On 11 Jul 2006 09:43:43 -0700, "Hurt"
Gave us:

If it gets close
enough the situation could be... problematic.

Yeah... You might actually die, and we would all be in peace again.

Why are your eyes brown, and what is that foul stench emanating from
your ears?

In article om,
"Hurt" wrote:

[...] I thought you're in the UK, how are you becoming aware of my
traffic?

Considering that you're posting to uk.sci.astronomy, how is it
surprising that you should get responses from British readers? (Of
course George may be reading one or more of the others; I'm in
alt.astronomy at the moment.) Many will consider x-posting to five
groups to be excessive, BTW.

--
Odysseus

nightbat wrote

Odysseus wrote:

In article om,
"Hurt" wrote:


[...] I thought you're in the UK, how are you becoming aware of my
traffic?


Considering that you're posting to uk.sci.astronomy, how is it
surprising that you should get responses from British readers? (Of
course George may be reading one or more of the others; I'm in
alt.astronomy at the moment.) Many will consider x-posting to five
groups to be excessive, BTW.


nightbat

Now that the World and mainstream science are fully realizing
the full science impact the profound Earth Science Team Officers are
having it's no wonder more and more worldwide respected scientific
groups are trying to crosspost to alt.astronomy what else is new?
Besides the clueless coffee boy auk ones not getting enough the advanced
theories being presented are overwhelming and Nobel class category
noteworthy. A science grad school reference reading must. The elite
Earth Science Team Officers everyone unique in their own way continue
the highest tradition of science excellence and mutual knowledge sharing.

That we got Katrina right, snow caps melting, dormant volcanoes coming
back to life, rising sea levels, increased solar activity, erratic
weather patterns, monumental and catastrophic Team " More Troubling
Planetary News " reports, 1st life Halo indications, black hole
resolution, the secret meat flavorings in McDonald's french fries, freak
wild fires, animals gone mad, Biblical rainfalls, space shuttle now Nasa
head admitted 30 year shortcomings, comet impact potentials, 2012 end
times indications, bird flu potential catastrophe, Hubble funding
inadequacies, and so many more Team firsts.

ponder on,
the nightbat

Hurt wrote:
I am in the UK, Usenet is available worldwide.

Strange though, your question implies [to me] that you were aware of a
post of mine that didn't make it through to Google and which
subsequently I deleted a section of. If it didn't make it through to
Google it didn't make it to Usenet. My traffic often comes under
"attack" whenever I start posting. I'm not sure if it's due to a SYN
flood attack on the Google servers, the routers in-between, or
something entirely different like someone trying to intercept my IP
packets. I could be somebody believes I'm committing "thought
crimes" but legally can't do anything about it.

I never used to have any trouble but over the last
few months about a third of my mails fail to reach
Google but they all appear on my local server.
I think it is just a bug in Google's software. Since
the messages are on other servers, even if Google
was blocked for some periods, it should catch up
without missing any when it regains connectivity
but that doesn't seem to be the case.

No. Let's be clear. We were talking of the Pioneer anomaly
which is a linear, constant acceleration relative to the Sun.

The Doppler shift (anomaly) is on average constant therefore linear but
the acceleration may or may not be, linear that is, though constant.
You're very careful with your words George.

I have had too many conversations degenerate due
to minor differences in meaning that weren't really
of any importance. To illustrate, letme clarify what
you just said which I think is correct but could be
misunderstood. The anomalous frequency shift is
apparently a linear function of time and since the
radial speed of the craft is essentially constant,
the shift is therefore also a linear function of range.
This implies a constant acceleration if the mechanism
is actually the Doppler shift.

The Pioneers are on a
trajectory that's arching radially up and out of the ecliptic plane.

You may be thinking of Voyager 1, Pioneer 10 was
at a nearly constant 3.1 degrees above the ecliptic
from 1978 to the present.

The acceleration could be angular, linear, or some combination of both.

I meant "linear" as in a linear function of time. Note
the difference between angular momentum and linear
is not as clear as you seem to think in general, but
since the acceleration in the case of Pioneer is
radially directed, the point is academic anyway.

of prolonging a pointless argument? That is the
hallmark of a troll and AFAICS you have no real
interest in the subject, you just want to argue,
so I'll leave it there.

Oh, when people start calling me names I know it's because I must be
conveying, borrowing from Al Gore, an inconvenient [to somebody] truth.

Don't take it as an insult, "trolling" just means arguing
for it's own sake and if that's what you enjoy then why
not, but it means anything I say about serious physics
is of little interest to you. It appears it is the debate that
matters to you, not the content, hence my technical
replies become pointless and a waste of my time.

George

course George may be reading one or more of the others; I'm in
alt.astronomy at the moment.) Many will consider x-posting to five
groups to be excessive, BTW.

Google limits you to five. That's about right. I reach the most
people this way; and it is on topic.

Perhaps you ought to choose more carefully *which* science mags to read?
Some of them are quite sensationalistically inclined, and don't write at all

This article was not sensationalistic, it indirectly pointed out
something obvious.




"Close enough" in this case ought to be close enough to cause a small
noticeable deviation in the motion of the Pioneer spacecrafts. Earlier

What makes you think Pioneer is accelerating towards us, maybe we're
accelerating towards it. Of course we can't be accelerating towards
both of them exactly. Hence, one on each side of the solar system.



you claimed that there was some unknown body close enough to caquse such
a deviation - remember? At the same time you claimed it wasn't close
enough to cause a similarly sized deviation in the motion of the outer
planets - which of course is a self-contradiction.

Careful now, you're selectively paraphrasing my "claims". I think I've
clarified my statements as this thread has progressed. The deviation
is all contingent upon angular momentum. Since everything in the solar
system will be APPROXIMATELY accelerated equally, we must look towards
planetary changes, orbital or otherwise, "indirectly" to determine any
external accelerating force. Note that if a Pioneer gets put into an
orbit that is orthogonal (perpendicular) to the [average] ecliptic
plane you effectively decouple its angular momentum. This could
provide useful information. The current trajectories of the Pioneers
were not chosen haphazardly. Somebody is obviously looking for this
data.

Why are your eyes brown, and what is that foul stench emanating from
your ears?

Some of the most vile, incompetent, selfish, ignorant, retards I have
ever met had blue eyes. And my eyes are not brown. A few bad apples
spoiling the bunch.

You may be thinking of Voyager 1, Pioneer 10 was
at a nearly constant 3.1 degrees above the ecliptic
from 1978 to the present.

Yes, I believe you're right; the Pioneers are on their final escape
trajectories. In fact that paper, I think it was "that" paper,
mentioned something about not getting enough readings through their
arching transitions out of the ecliptic plane. Or something like that.
This thread has become so long I'm having trouble finding some of the
links in the individual posts.

None of the Pioneers move precisely, or even nearly, perpendicular to
the ecliptic plane (you might prefer to use the invariable plane of
the solar system here, since that doesn't change - the invariable plane,
defined by the total angular momentum of all orbiting planets, is inclined
only a few degrees to the ecliptic though).

You're right, that is the preferable term. And I posted a link to that
in Wikipedia; you think I would have used it.


It was part of the idea when the Pioneers were launched, yes. However,
improved observational techniques since the early 1970's, combined
with the failure to find any unknown large planet, has dramatically
decreased the probability of such a body out there.

Not necessarily. People don't believe me when I tell them that you
can't see the stuff we left on the Moon, even with the most powerful
telescope, yet you can prove it through optical physics. The space out
there is very large.