Chinese machine lands in the lunar surface

On Monday, December 16, 2013 11:16:25 PM UTC-8, William Mook wrote:
On Monday, December 16, 2013 8:02:06 PM UTC+13, Brad Guth wrote:

On Sunday, December 15, 2013 6:21:25 PM UTC-8, William Mook wrote:



On Monday, December 16, 2013 10:06:03 AM UTC+13, Vaughn wrote:







On 12/15/2013 12:21 PM, bob haller wrote:















they are taking the lead in space,































Chicken Little-style nonsense!































Let's take a quick inventory. China now has one unmanned rover on the















moon. NASA has two rovers on Mars plus several other active science















missions in flight. Who did you say has the lead?















I replied to this earlier, but somehow it didn't post properly.















What we've done is awesome. What we're doing not so much.















We've cancelled our Mars exploration programme.







We've cancelled our nuclear rocket programme.







We've cancelled our heavy lift launcher programme.







We've cancelled our moon base programme.







We've cancelled our moon programme.







We've cancelled our space station programme (Skylab).







We've cancelled our space shuttle programme.







We've cancelled our SSTO programme.







We're in the process of cancelling our Mars rover programme.











This is not a series of developments that inspire optimism for the future of American space programme.







At least so far those images provided by China are kinda **** poor.







How many decades behind in digital imaging is China?







What sort of active CCD imager cooling have they incorporated?



They make the HDTV and HD imagers everyone uses. They haven't uploaded the HD stuff yet from the landing. They do have the launch available though.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMgpKwfbZGE



Here's the English language version (where they discuss frame rate, bandwidth, and image quality)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc2V8MyjXw4



There's been wall to wall coverage in Asia - here's the 720p uploads


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkv0...kIq z3gfVH3iX


1080i is available from your Chinese satellite TV provider.

CCD imagers heated to 117 C do not perform very well, if at all. Active cooling of their imagers is required.

Their science must include active data as to internal circuitry temps and methods of cooling. So, where is this data and their camera design/engineering specs?

On Saturday, December 14, 2013 10:45:11 AM UTC-8, jacob navia wrote:
http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily...ly-landed.html

Why are their cameras malfunctioning or are they simply broken?

Why are their gamma spectrometry instruments still not working?

What sort of lens optics and narrow bandpass filters do each of their cameras have to work with?

On Saturday, December 14, 2013 10:45:11 AM UTC-8, jacob navia wrote:
http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily...ly-landed.html

CCD imagers heated to 117 C typically do not perform very well, if at all. Active cooling of their imager is required and must always be monitored and regulated by the local and terrestrial computers. Their mission science must include active data feed as to all of their internal circuitry temps and methods of actively cooling. So, where is this mission critical data feed and their camera design/engineering specs?

Modern digital cameras can easily outperform conventional film DR(dynamic range) by at least 5 db (not to mention offering their much wider color spectrum sensitivity which can include IR and UV), providing an equivalent of 32 times better DR, and a truly advanced scientific CCD imager should easily obtain a 6 DB or 64:1 DR advantage over Kodak film (especially of individually recorded images at maximum resolution using an actively cooled CCD imager populated with at least 16.777 million pixels or photon buckets, as opposed to a video camera of only HDTV quality that’s not any better than what a retail consumer GoPro delivers). Problem is, these fancy imagers need to be kept relatively cool.

There are some really good CMOS and CCD imagers, not to mention newer better imagers of large area format from China:

http://leicarumors.com/2012/09/19/th...y-cmosis.aspx/
http://leicarumors.com/2010/11/07/ko...d-sensor.aspx/

http://www.e2v-us.com/products-and-s...d/?e2vredirect

http://www.e2v-us.com/e2v/assets/Fil...84-bi-nimo.pdf

Why wouldn’t they send their very best CCD imagers and camera optics to the moon?

Why are their cameras malfunctioning, or are they simply dysfunctional due to the heat?

Why are their gamma spectrometry instruments still not working? (is it too hot by day?)

What sort of special lens optics and narrow bandpass filters do each of their cameras have to work with?

Why are those local X-ray and gamma radiation readings not being recorded and shared with the world?

“ESTIMATION OF THE SURFACE TEMPERATURE OF FLAT AREAS ON THE MOON”
“A 1322.5 w/m2 change of the ESI would lead to 179.4K change in surface daytime temperature”

Perhaps imaging and other science via cool (179 K) planetshine or ESI should more than do the trick by offering up to 3.9 w/m2 illuminating upon the surface, offering plenty of working illumination inspite of their physically dark as coal surface. Combining of pixels offers the same benefit as having larger area pixels, such as with four times the low-light sensitivity and only a fourth the resolution is still offering an impressive 4.19 million pixel CCD image and still using large format optics doesn’t leave all that much to be desired, not to mention what a little bit of artificial illumination and especially of what the UV spectrum has to offer for the detection of all those secondary/recoil photons within our human visual spectrum.

On 12/14/2013 10:45 AM, jacob navia wrote:
http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily...ly-landed.html


And nothing much happens, and is still not happening.

They might as well have landed their Jade Rabbit in the dry valleys of
northern Mongolia, or perhaps once again using the isolated island
nation of Nauru for only a small fee of a few hundred million (worked
for our NASA/Apollo era, as plan-B in case plan-A didn't take).

Le 07/01/2014 00:09, Brad Guth a écrit :
On 12/14/2013 10:45 AM, jacob navia wrote:
http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily...ly-landed.html



And nothing much happens, and is still not happening.

They might as well have landed their Jade Rabbit in the dry valleys of
northern Mongolia, or perhaps once again using the isolated island
nation of Nauru for only a small fee of a few hundred million (worked
for our NASA/Apollo era, as plan-B in case plan-A didn't take).

So, let's recap:

1) brad guth doesn't read the news from the chinese, for instance:
http://english.cntv.cn/program/china...2/103912.shtml

2) brad guth doesn't read the site for the planetary society about the
chinese machine:
http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily...e3-update.html

3) He did not see the video of the rover rolling on the moon either.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=R9qhPWbwwhc

He doesn't know anything then, of course. Since he doesn't know that the
rover is entering into the night of the moon (that lasts weeks) he
expects the rover to "perform" for him... maybe jumping around, whatever.

Here is an excerpt of the planetary society blogs

"Chang'e 3 and Yutu are wrapping up their first lunar day of operations.
The nominal mission is planned for three lunar days. But mission
managers have remarked that the spacecraft are performing better than
expected, so I hope to see the pair operating through quite a bit of
2014. However, I don't expect an Opportunity-like 10 years of operations
because the brutal temperature swings on the Moon must make something
break sooner or later. If they're still working in April, they'll be in
position to witness a solar eclipse (for them; it's a lunar eclipse, for
those of us on Earth)."

On 1/7/2014 4:25 PM, jacob navia wrote:
Le 07/01/2014 00:09, Brad Guth a écrit :
On 12/14/2013 10:45 AM, jacob navia wrote:
http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily...ly-landed.html




And nothing much happens, and is still not happening.

They might as well have landed their Jade Rabbit in the dry valleys of
northern Mongolia, or perhaps once again using the isolated island
nation of Nauru for only a small fee of a few hundred million (worked
for our NASA/Apollo era, as plan-B in case plan-A didn't take).

So, let's recap:

1) brad guth doesn't read the news from the chinese, for instance:
http://english.cntv.cn/program/china...2/103912.shtml

2) brad guth doesn't read the site for the planetary society about the
chinese machine:
http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily...e3-update.html


3) He did not see the video of the rover rolling on the moon either.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=R9qhPWbwwhc

He doesn't know anything then, of course. Since he doesn't know that the
rover is entering into the night of the moon (that lasts weeks) he
expects the rover to "perform" for him... maybe jumping around, whatever.

Here is an excerpt of the planetary society blogs

"Chang'e 3 and Yutu are wrapping up their first lunar day of operations.
The nominal mission is planned for three lunar days. But mission
managers have remarked that the spacecraft are performing better than
expected, so I hope to see the pair operating through quite a bit of
2014. However, I don't expect an Opportunity-like 10 years of operations
because the brutal temperature swings on the Moon must make something
break sooner or later. If they're still working in April, they'll be in
position to witness a solar eclipse (for them; it's a lunar eclipse, for
those of us on Earth)."


The media eye-candy infomercials provided thus far offer no actual live
science whatsoever, much less any actively provided channels of science
as to sharing even the most basics of what that naked lunar environment
should have to offer.

How is old news (aka media hype certified for dummies) the same value as
active hard science data?

Apparently infomercial eye-candy is all that is necessary for impressing
the likes of yourself. Do you also convey science via finger-paintings,
or are you still using butt-prints?

On 1/7/2014 4:25 PM, jacob navia wrote:
Le 07/01/2014 00:09, Brad Guth a écrit :
On 12/14/2013 10:45 AM, jacob navia wrote:
http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily...ly-landed.html




And nothing much happens, and is still not happening.

They might as well have landed their Jade Rabbit in the dry valleys of
northern Mongolia, or perhaps once again using the isolated island
nation of Nauru for only a small fee of a few hundred million (worked
for our NASA/Apollo era, as plan-B in case plan-A didn't take).

So, let's recap:

1) brad guth doesn't read the news from the chinese, for instance:
http://english.cntv.cn/program/china...2/103912.shtml

2) brad guth doesn't read the site for the planetary society about the
chinese machine:
http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily...e3-update.html


3) He did not see the video of the rover rolling on the moon either.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=R9qhPWbwwhc

He doesn't know anything then, of course. Since he doesn't know that the
rover is entering into the night of the moon (that lasts weeks) he
expects the rover to "perform" for him... maybe jumping around, whatever.

Here is an excerpt of the planetary society blogs

"Chang'e 3 and Yutu are wrapping up their first lunar day of operations.
The nominal mission is planned for three lunar days. But mission
managers have remarked that the spacecraft are performing better than
expected, so I hope to see the pair operating through quite a bit of
2014. However, I don't expect an Opportunity-like 10 years of operations
because the brutal temperature swings on the Moon must make something
break sooner or later. If they're still working in April, they'll be in
position to witness a solar eclipse (for them; it's a lunar eclipse, for
those of us on Earth)."


Why are all the official images (the few released thus far) getting
doctored and/or PhotoShop modified to suit before we get any look at them?

Why are there still no open channels of any science data?

What are the Yutu and Jade Rabbit system energy limitations?

How much spare rocket fuel was available after the soft-landing?

On 12/14/2013 10:45 AM, jacob navia wrote:
http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily...ly-landed.html


http://inventorspot.com/articles/chi... nating_robot

It seems their equipment can not even manage with the ideal amount of
surface illumination from the 4 watts/m2 provided via planetshine which
essentially offers near 50 times as much surface illumination as any
full moon illumination does right here on Earth.

They can not even report as to their surrounding outside surface
nighttime temperature, much less offer any basic radiation or local
ionization readings, not to mention their gamma spectrometry being
offline or simply not functioning.

Their supposedly hight resolution CCD imagers and of whatever specially
configured optics of the necessary spectrum filtered requirements also
remains as top secret, thereby making whatever images obtained as bogus
science that can not be utilized as geology or physics research by
anyone. We are not even being informed as to their camera CCD imager
temperature (by day or night).

Oddly their fly-by-rocket lander that clearly outperforms anything our
DARPA, NASA or Space-X has to offer, is yet another super top-secret
technology and advanced expertise that apparently our NSA/GCHQ totally
forgot to tap into. Apparently our best guys and gals can not even
intercept any of their science data streams as coming back from the
moon, perhaps because China has those packets even better encrypted than
any of our best encryption technology, and/or extremely narrow beam
focused so as to prevent any such unauthorized snooping.

So, what are the basic outside conditions, as so nicely illuminated by
planetshine?

Where is this open public science channel they originally boasted about?