Mars Sample Return - Return Vehicle Size ??

I was wondering if there has been any discussion on the size of the rocket
that would lift off of Mars and return to earth a Mars sample ?? I'm
thinking this would have to be a fairly hefty launch vehicle containing
fuel, electronics, manoeuvring systems, a sample container with some mass of
sample and an Earth re-entry and landing system (ie. parachute).

All of this would first have to be launched to Mars, and landed safely
aboard some sort of lander/rover system...quite a lot of mass right there.
Then the sample would be stored aboard the rocket and launched at the
appropriate window. This rocket has to have enough power to reach Martian
escape velocity and power it's way towards earth.

Any guess as to approximate size ?? For example, I'm thinking a V-2 size
rocket would be way too big.....what about something the size of a AIM-54
Phoenix Missile ??...even that's pretty big....How do you get something
small enough to get to Mars, land safely, store enough Martian sample to
make it all worth while and yet with enough rocket power to get off of Mars
and back to Earth ???

Jeff Lerner
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"Jeff Lerner" wrote in
:

I was wondering if there has been any discussion on the size of the
rocket that would lift off of Mars and return to earth a Mars sample
?? I'm thinking this would have to be a fairly hefty launch vehicle

It would be hefty for on a "direct return" architecture. Consider the
possibility of "Mars orbit rendezvous" to reduce liftoff mass, at the cost
of some operational complexity.


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JRF

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Jeff Lerner wrote:

How do you get something
small enough to get to Mars, land safely, store enough Martian sample to
make it all worth while and yet with enough rocket power to get off of Mars
and back to Earth ???

Jeff Lerner

Maybe a return stage would need to be launched seperately and go into
orbit round Mars.
The lander would dock with this after takeoff.

Jorge R. Frank wrote:

It would be hefty for on a "direct return" architecture. Consider the
possibility of "Mars orbit rendezvous" to reduce liftoff mass, at the cost
of some operational complexity.



Challenging from a mission complexity viewpoint, but certainly worth it
from a weight standpoint if you can get it to work.

Pat

"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
...


Jorge R. Frank wrote:

It would be hefty for on a "direct return" architecture. Consider the
possibility of "Mars orbit rendezvous" to reduce liftoff mass, at the
cost
of some operational complexity.



Challenging from a mission complexity viewpoint, but certainly worth it
from a weight standpoint if you can get it to work.

Pat


It's very doable.

Flypaste Wingnut wrote:


It's very doable.



I would think it would be with our current state of technology; although
I'd like to get some Russian input into automated rendezvous and
docking, particularly after DART.
But being able to leave all the Earth return apparatus in Mars orbit
rather than lugging it all the way down to the surface and back would
greatly decrease the weight and size of the lander, particularly if the
Earth return heatshield never had to land.

Pat

I am pretty sure the Soviet Mars 5M with its 7.8 kg no-moving-parts
return capsule and 2000 kg return-to-earth stage has to be the ultimate
in minimum sample return:

http://www.astronautix.com/craft/mars5m.htm