Vatican Dumps Darwinist-Boosting Astronomer

"Pastor Dave" wrote in message
...

You can try to dodge the Scriptures if you want to.
But it is hypocrisy to claim that one believes in a
denomination that claims to believe the Scriptures
and then tosses the basic idea of the Scriptures
aside.

If we got here by evolution, then Jesus is not Savior.

That doesn't follow in the least. Who set evolution in motion? Certainly a
smarter and more capable God than One who has to constantly be meddling to
keep things on the right path.

On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 10:56:50 -0500, "Eudaemonic Plague"
spake thusly:


"Pastor Dave" wrote in message
.. .
[snip]
: If we got here by evolution, then Jesus is not Savior.

Very good, Davey, now if you will only recognize the fact that we
_did_ get here by evolution.......

Have a nice life.


--

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34

O
/
/
[]()X()[]
\
\
O

"For the word of God is sharper than any two edged sword."

"We have grasped the mystery of the atom and rejected
the Sermon on the Mount... The world has achieved
brilliance without conscience. Ours is a world of
nuclear giants and ethical infants."
- General Omar Bradley

"Mike Schilling"


"Pastor Dave" wrote in message
...

You can try to dodge the Scriptures if you want to.
But it is hypocrisy to claim that one believes in a
denomination that claims to believe the Scriptures
and then tosses the basic idea of the Scriptures
aside.

If we got here by evolution, then Jesus is not Savior.

That doesn't follow in the least. Who set evolution in motion? Certainly a
smarter and more capable God than One who has to constantly be meddling to
keep things on the right path.


Oh, but it does follow in the minds of folks like Pastor Dave.
If evolution, then the Garden of Eden myth is just that. And
no Eden: no Fall; no Fall: no redemption.

Me, I think that the Eden story is one of the most marvelous
myths I know of, because it so poignantly echoes the stages we all
experience in going from infant to adult. But for others, it's
more -- or less.


-- cary

quibbler wrote:

The fact is that the vatican doesn't know what
lie to tell next, so, for now, they're keeping
their ignorant mouths shut.

You'll have to forgive them. They're idiots who are
being heavily lobbied by other idiots.

Apparently the sticking point is whether God or
natural forces ("evolution") directs development.

Traditionally the Catholic church accepts evolution,
seeing it as God's chosen method for creating us.
But that would require us -- and all life as it now
exists on earth -- to be the goal. Not that evolution
resulted in us and the life around us, but that God
"created" evolution planning/knowing that it's
eventual result would be us.

The fundies are currently claiming that the Pope
can't endorse this view, that evolution requires a
deist philosophy where the results were never
set, but randomly determined on the fly by the
natural processes.

Ironically, it really doesn't matter. Whether the
direct hand or God or pure nature, our observations
of and understanding of evolution is unchanged.

Rand Simberg wrote:

Speaking of keeping ignorant mouths shut, maybe
you should work on your own. The Church does
not oppose evolution. Creationism is a Protestant
thing.

Oh, irony!

He's aware that the church accepts evolution. But
he's also aware that there are....well... certain
"Issues" the church is being presented with.

Pastor Dave wrote:

You can try to dodge the Scriptures if you want to.

Dodging == treating the bible as a collection of
moral tales & lessons.

If we got here by evolution, then Jesus is not Savior.

We got here by evolution. Deal with it and move on.

Cary Kittrell wrote:

Me, I think that the Eden story is one of the most
marvelous myths I know of, because it so poignantly
echoes the stages we all experience in going from
infant to adult. But for others, it's more -- or less.

Nope, sorry, you must be evil if you believe there is
any wisdom in the bible, any moral lessons, and that
it is not just a dry record of historic events.

AN ALL-POWERFUL GOD ISN'T POWERFUL ENOUGH
TO EXIST IF GENESIS ISN'T LITERALLY TRUE!

If you were smart & moral you'd know these things.

On 30 Aug 2006 10:41:33 -0700, "JTEM" spake
thusly:


Pastor Dave wrote:

You can try to dodge the Scriptures if you want to.

Dodging == treating the bible as a collection of
moral tales & lessons.

If we got here by evolution, then Jesus is not Savior.

We got here by evolution. Deal with it and move on.

You said so, so it must be true. Have a nice life.


--

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34

O
/
/
[]()X()[]
\
\
O

"For the word of God is sharper than any two edged sword."

"Many fossils have been collected since 1859, tons of
them, yet the impact they have had on our understanding
of the relationships between living organisms is barely
perceptible. ...In fact, I do not think it unfair to
say that fossils, or at least the traditional
interpretation of fossils, have clouded rather than
clarified our attempts to reconstruct phylogeny."
(Fortey, P. L., "Neontological Analysis Versus
Palaeontological Stores," 1982, p. 120-121)

On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 15:37:19 GMT, Pastor Dave
wrote:

On 30 Aug 2006 08:14:59 -0700, "Alex Terrell"
spake thusly:


Speaking of keeping ignorant mouths shut, maybe you should work on
your own. The Church does not oppose evolution. Creationism is a
Protestant thing.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/01/.../evolution.php

Creation is a Biblical thing.

And intepreting the bible literally is an (American) protestant thing.
(Though a characteristic shared by many Jews and Muslims).

Treating the bibe as gospel!

You can try to dodge the Scriptures if you want to.
But it is hypocrisy to claim that one believes in a
denomination that claims to believe the Scriptures
and then tosses the basic idea of the Scriptures
aside.

If we got here by evolution, then Jesus is not Savior.

I had no idea being Savior was a biological process.

In article .com "JTEM" writes:

Cary Kittrell wrote:

Me, I think that the Eden story is one of the most
marvelous myths I know of, because it so poignantly
echoes the stages we all experience in going from
infant to adult. But for others, it's more -- or less.

Nope, sorry, you must be evil if you believe there is
any wisdom in the bible, any moral lessons, and that
it is not just a dry record of historic events.

AN ALL-POWERFUL GOD ISN'T POWERFUL ENOUGH
TO EXIST IF GENESIS ISN'T LITERALLY TRUE!

If you were smart & moral you'd know these things.


So I take it you are mistaking me for a Christian?

Or are you someone who thinks that no insights into
the human condition can be found in the various myths of
the world?



-- cary