Ayn Rand's Utopia

On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 08:47:01 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Indeed, no business should even be allowed to provide health care
benefits. Or more accurately, every benefit provided by an employer
should be taxed as income.

Income (and benefits) should NOT be taxed. It is an inherently unfair tax, criminal in fact.

Whether these things should be taxed is a different discussion. The
fact that income _is_ taxed, however, is clearly not illegal.

The worker who has to work more hours to get the same amount of pay as another is having his TIME stolen from him, for example.

That is the standard tea-bagger and anarchist view, of course.

On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 10:50:33 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

You say to a very successful entrepreneur who created one of the most
respected astronomical instrument companies around.

What is a "respected astronomical instrument company?" Do they only make "respected" astronomical instruments? Are they the only ones to do so? Is not a 60mm refractor a "respected" astronomical instrument?

You think that his company isn't well respected in the astronomical
community? Then you are very out-of-touch.

Your individual
achievements are less apparent.

Ugharoller only understands the concept of his own "achievements" in a narrow area, as do you. You both consider most others' achievements to be inconsequential or to be taken for granted and then ignored.

I have no idea where you are deriving this generalization. I don't
think either of us have denigrated the achievements of others.

On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 10:43:57 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 10:29:00 AM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:

The most successful free and rich societies also have the broadest and
most levelly defined and applied rights. And that's no coincidence.

That's a load of bs.

Well, that's a convincing counter argument.

On Tuesday, June 30, 2015 at 2:02:54 PM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 08:47:01 -0700 (PDT), wsnell01 wrote:

Indeed, no business should even be allowed to provide health care
benefits. Or more accurately, every benefit provided by an employer
should be taxed as income.

Income (and benefits) should NOT be taxed. It is an inherently unfair tax, criminal in fact.

Whether these things should be taxed is a different discussion. The
fact that income _is_ taxed, however, is clearly not illegal.

Taking from another in that way is a wrong thing to do, even if not _technically_ illegal. One would have to understand natural rights to grasp that, however.


The worker who has to work more hours to get the same amount of pay as another is having his TIME stolen from him, for example.

That is the standard tea-bagger and anarchist view, of course.

It is the view of a rational, compassionate, intelligent person, IOW, not you, peterson.

On Tuesday, June 30, 2015 at 2:00:52 PM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:

Of course it is. Businesses write off this benefit, reducing their
taxes. The employees who receive the benefit pay no taxes on it. It's
just an alternate form of income, which is untaxed. Self-employed
people don't have an equivalent ability to write off their insurance.
It comes out of after-tax income.

The solution to that is to NOT TAX INCOME, dumbass!


The entire system of employer provided health insurance was created as
a way to boost effective worker income.

And that's a problem, why, exactly???

On Tuesday, June 30, 2015 at 2:01:22 PM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 08:53:47 -0700 (PDT), wsnell01 wrote:

Having a healthy citizenry is a benefit to all of us, having the person next to you on the Metro not suffering from TB is in your interest,
having a server not ill works for me, having school children benefit from accessible health care is of benefit to your children and the teachers. Civilization just works better with healthy citizens. Why does anyone have such a hard time understanding this ?

Those are matters of public health, not health insurance.

The two are closely related.

No, they are not. Public health has to do with the monitoring of diseases and health insurance has to do with insuring one's self against unsustainable loss.

Try to pay attention, peterson.

On Tuesday, June 30, 2015 at 2:06:23 PM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 10:43:57 -0700 (PDT), wsnell01 wrote:

On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 10:29:00 AM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:

The most successful free and rich societies also have the broadest and
most levelly defined and applied rights. And that's no coincidence.

That's a load of bs.

Well, that's a convincing counter argument.

There is no point in arguing with your bs, peterson. The most expedient thing is just to identify it for what it is!

On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 12:01:21 -0600, Chris L Peterson
wrote this crap:

Those are matters of public health, not health insurance.

The two are closely related.

NO. They are not.


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On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 12:00:50 -0600, Chris L Peterson
wrote this crap:

On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 09:00:35 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Our system of the government subsidizing some people's health through
untaxed employer benefits

The government isn't DOING that.

Of course it is. Businesses write off this benefit, reducing their
taxes. The employees who receive the benefit pay no taxes on it. It's
just an alternate form of income, which is untaxed. Self-employed
people don't have an equivalent ability to write off their insurance.
It comes out of after-tax income.

The entire system of employer provided health insurance was created as
a way to boost effective worker income.

This is a benefit that
everybody should receive directly, independent of employment.

And who will pay for that?

The same people who pay for all public goods: the public. Through
taxes.

Too bad that all people don't pay taxes. Do you?


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On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 09:09:07 -0700 (PDT), wrote
this crap:

On Thursday, June 25, 2015 at 5:30:32 PM UTC-4, Lord Vath wrote:

Preventive medicine is much cheaper and easier. You don't have to
force people to pay more taxes for health care.

Preventable causes of health problems include smoking, drinking,
drug use, poor eating habits, risky behaviors, etc.

Agreed.

These account for a sizable portion of health care costs in the US,

Agreed.

and those who engage in the above habits are not paying their
share of the increasingly collectivized costs which they
disproportionately cause.

Agreed.

Let every one decide how much health insurance they want to
buy for themselves and decide which unhealthy vices
they are willing to forgo in order to be less of a burden
and more of a help to the "system."

Simple.

That won't work. The people who enjoy their vices will be the first
to scream that their health care should be paid for by the taxpayers.


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