Moon City + bone health ?

This post is adjunct to the "Moon City?" post, but specialized.

There seems to a problem with human frame degradation in 0 and low g,
(1/6 g) enviroments.
I propose, in Moon City, a trampoline to keep the limbs limber, using
the impulse of bouncing, for 20 minutes a day.
For safety the tramp is in a wall padded cylinder, and the user would
be subjected to a few g's per impulse.

I'm guessing here, but I think we'd need a padded ceiling at 100'.
Make the unit transparent, so others can watch, then we may
satisfy the emotional fulfilment of live entertainment, that
Earthlings would envy.
Sound good?
Ken

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in message
...
This post is adjunct to the "Moon City?" post, but specialized.

There seems to a problem with human frame degradation in 0 and low g,
(1/6 g) enviroments.

Actually we have no real data on bone loss in a 1/6 g environment.

I propose, in Moon City, a trampoline to keep the limbs limber, using
the impulse of bouncing, for 20 minutes a day.
For safety the tramp is in a wall padded cylinder, and the user would
be subjected to a few g's per impulse.

Possibly might work, but again, hard to tell.


I'm guessing here, but I think we'd need a padded ceiling at 100'.

Do the math. And how are you going to build this structure? Underground or
what/


Make the unit transparent, so others can watch, then we may
satisfy the emotional fulfilment of live entertainment, that
Earthlings would envy.
Sound good?

Sounds like a pipe dream more than anything else.


Ken




--
Greg Moore
Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC.

On Apr 10, 2:07 pm, "Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)"
wrote:
"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in ...

This post is adjunct to the "Moon City?" post, but specialized.

There seems to a problem with human frame degradation in 0 and low g,
(1/6 g) enviroments.

Actually we have no real data on bone loss in a 1/6 g environment.

I propose, in Moon City, a trampoline to keep the limbs limber, using
the impulse of bouncing, for 20 minutes a day.
For safety the tramp is in a wall padded cylinder, and the user would
be subjected to a few g's per impulse.

Possibly might work, but again, hard to tell.



I'm guessing here, but I think we'd need a padded ceiling at 100'.

Do the math. And how are you going to build this structure? Underground or
what/

This group is "sci.space.tech", provided a potentially realistic
solution is presented, this might get posted.
Suppose we used the HO Ares V empty tank, with some special
additions, for a soft landing on the Moon.
You may recall the thought of using expended tanks as rooms.

Make the unit transparent, so others can watch, then we may
satisfy the emotional fulfilment of live entertainment, that
Earthlings would envy.
Sound good?

Sounds like a pipe dream more than anything else.

"pipe dream"? The question is since Certainly there is
a component of imagination, provided we're within the realm
of doable technology, and what the investor will ante up.

Greg Moore
Ken S. Tucker

Ken S. Tucker wrote:
This post is adjunct to the "Moon City?" post, but specialized.

There seems to a problem with human frame degradation in 0 and low g,
(1/6 g) enviroments.

What is "human frame degradation"?

Whatever you mean by that, there is absolutely no data on human
physiological response to 1/6 g for any kind of extended periods. All of
the current data is for zero g.

I propose, in Moon City, a trampoline to keep the limbs limber, using
the impulse of bouncing, for 20 minutes a day.
For safety the tramp is in a wall padded cylinder, and the user would
be subjected to a few g's per impulse.

Sound good?

Where is your data to support your thesis that 20 minutes a day on a
trampoline is sufficient to prevent "human frame degradation"?

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in message
...
On Apr 10, 2:07 pm, "Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)"
wrote:
"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in
...


I'm guessing here, but I think we'd need a padded ceiling at 100'.

Do the math. And how are you going to build this structure? Underground
or
what/

This group is "sci.space.tech", provided a potentially realistic
solution is presented, this might get posted.

Yes, it is sci.space.tech, hence my request to show your math. Do we need
100'?

Suppose we used the HO Ares V empty tank, with some special
additions, for a soft landing on the Moon.

I assume you mean the Earth Depature Stage. I don't believe either tank in
it comes close to 100' in length.

It's similar in size to the S-IV, which was 58.4' in length. Since neither
tank is the full length of EDS, you're not going to come close to 100' with
this.


You may recall the thought of using expended tanks as rooms.

Make the unit transparent, so others can watch, then we may
satisfy the emotional fulfilment of live entertainment, that
Earthlings would envy.
Sound good?

Sounds like a pipe dream more than anything else.

"pipe dream"? The question is since Certainly there is
a component of imagination, provided we're within the realm
of doable technology, and what the investor will ante up.


Pipe dreams can be sincere.

Greg Moore
Ken S. Tucker








--
Greg Moore
Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC.

On Apr 10, 7:42 pm, "Jorge R. Frank" wrote:
Ken S. Tucker wrote:
This post is adjunct to the "Moon City?" post, but specialized.

There seems to a problem with human frame degradation in 0 and low g,
(1/6 g) enviroments.

What is "human frame degradation"?

Whatever you mean by that, there is absolutely no data on human
physiological response to 1/6 g for any kind of extended periods. All of
the current data is for zero g.

Thanks for your input Jorge.
In 1/6 g one could wear a heavy suit to do 1g exercise.

I propose, in Moon City, a trampoline to keep the limbs limber, using
the impulse of bouncing, for 20 minutes a day.
For safety the tramp is in a wall padded cylinder, and the user would
be subjected to a few g's per impulse.

Sound good?

Where is your data to support your thesis that 20 minutes a day on a
trampoline is sufficient to prevent "human frame degradation"?

It's soft science, 20 minutes a day, is a guestimate.
What might be an idea, on voyages to Mars, is to put
a trampoline at each end of an exercise module so
the crew can bounce back and forth, we could test that
using the ISS.
(Pardon the humor, a fat astronaut bouncing back and
forth will wiggle the ISS, possibly ruining micro-gravity
experiments).
Ken

Ken S. Tucker wrote:
This post is adjunct to the "Moon City?" post, but specialized.

There seems to a problem with human frame degradation in 0 and low g,
(1/6 g) enviroments.
I propose, in Moon City, a trampoline to keep the limbs limber, using
the impulse of bouncing, for 20 minutes a day.
For safety the tramp is in a wall padded cylinder, and the user would
be subjected to a few g's per impulse.

I'm guessing here, but I think we'd need a padded ceiling at 100'.
Make the unit transparent, so others can watch, then we may
satisfy the emotional fulfilment of live entertainment, that
Earthlings would envy.

Isaac Asimov's 1972 novel "The Gods Themselves"
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gods_Themselves)
described such a room, with a game vaguely like "tag" played in it.
He described this as both essential for exercise, and a major
recreation for lunar inhabitants.

--
-- "Jonathan Thornburg [remove -animal to reply]"
Dept of Astronomy, Indiana University, Bloomington, Indiana, USA
"Space travel is utter bilge" -- common misquote of UK Astronomer Royal
Richard Woolley's remarks of 1956
"All this writing about space travel is utter bilge. To go to the
moon would cost as much as a major war." -- what he actually said

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote:

On Apr 10, 7:42 pm, "Jorge R. Frank" wrote:

Where is your data to support your thesis that 20 minutes a day on a
trampoline is sufficient to prevent "human frame degradation"?

It's soft science, 20 minutes a day, is a guestimate.

In other words, you don't have any data.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

On Apr 11, 2:23 pm, (Derek Lyons) wrote:
"Ken S. Tucker" wrote:

On Apr 10, 7:42 pm, "Jorge R. Frank" wrote:

Where is your data to support your thesis that 20 minutes a day on a
trampoline is sufficient to prevent "human frame degradation"?

It's soft science, 20 minutes a day, is a guestimate.

In other words, you don't have any data.

Some soft data is available. It went something like this,
two groups of paid volunteers were required to remain
horizontal, like in a bed. The head to toe gravitational
gradient is pretty much zero in that case, such as in
a weightless state, atrophy is measured.
Part of the group is allowed 20 minutes exercise per
day, IIRC the exercise group stayed near normal, but
the others had atrophy problems.

Based on the data, still a mystery to physiologist's,
the skelton seems to react to g-force to reinforce,
that conclusion is fairly consistent.
Ken

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in message
...
On Apr 11, 2:23 pm, (Derek Lyons) wrote:
"Ken S. Tucker" wrote:

On Apr 10, 7:42 pm, "Jorge R. Frank" wrote:

Where is your data to support your thesis that 20 minutes a day on a
trampoline is sufficient to prevent "human frame degradation"?

It's soft science, 20 minutes a day, is a guestimate.

In other words, you don't have any data.

Some soft data is available. It went something like this,
two groups of paid volunteers were required to remain
horizontal, like in a bed. The head to toe gravitational
gradient is pretty much zero in that case, such as in
a weightless state, atrophy is measured.
Part of the group is allowed 20 minutes exercise per
day, IIRC the exercise group stayed near normal, but
the others had atrophy problems.

Based on the data, still a mystery to physiologist's,

Actually it's not a complete mystery. Bones react to stress. They're
constantly being built and destroyed. Osteoblasts create bone and I'm
blanking on the cells that basically remove the bone matrix. On orbit or
during bed rest, the stress is removed and evidently the osteoblasts cut
back, but the demineralization continues.

Note that bed rest is used to replicate to the best of our ability what goes
on in orbit. But on-orbit still provides the best data. We have data that
stretches from weeks to months. However, we still have no data on 1/6 g.

It may be that 1/6 G provides enough stress.


the skelton seems to react to g-force to reinforce,

Actually it seems to react to stress on the skelotal system, which is not
quite the same thing.

That said, yes, a trampoline might be suffecient. But we really don't know.
that conclusion is fairly consistent.
Ken




--
Greg Moore
Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC.