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"SpaceShipTwo could be single stage to SUBorbit"



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 10th 10, 07:47 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy,sci.astro,sci.physics
Robert Clark
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Posts: 1,150
Default "SpaceShipTwo could be single stage to SUBorbit"

Interesting article he

SpaceShipTwo could be single stage to suborbit says ESA firm.
By Rob Coppinger
on April 29, 2010 4:24 PM
"Virgin Galactic's SpaceShipTwo could be a single stage to suborbit
vehicle using liquid chemical propulsion according to independent
research carried out by a company that has been contracted by the
European Space Agency for suborbital and hypersonic transport
studies."
"... the UK firm came to the conclusion that the volume within which
SS2 carries its solid rocket motor and nitrous oxide supply could
equally hold a liquid chemical propulsion system capable of providing
enough thrust for long enough for a horizontal take-off and ascent to
50,000ft and above without the need for WK2."
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/hy...-single-s.html

If you also filled up the passenger compartment with fuel leaving only
a pilot's cabin could it even become orbital?


Bob Clark

  #2  
Old May 10th 10, 08:24 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy,sci.astro,sci.physics
Bob Myers
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Posts: 123
Default "SpaceShipTwo could be single stage to SUBorbit"

On 5/10/2010 12:47 PM, Robert Clark wrote:
If you also filled up the passenger compartment with fuel leaving only
a pilot's cabin could it even become orbital?


Even if it could, the next question would be how you'd plan on
DE-orbiting in a survivable manner...

Bob M.

  #3  
Old May 10th 10, 09:11 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy,sci.astro,sci.physics
Jeff Findley
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Default "SpaceShipTwo could be single stage to SUBorbit"


"Bob Myers" wrote in message
...
On 5/10/2010 12:47 PM, Robert Clark wrote:
If you also filled up the passenger compartment with fuel leaving only
a pilot's cabin could it even become orbital?


Even if it could, the next question would be how you'd plan on
DE-orbiting in a survivable manner...


There is no way that "filling the cabin with fuel" would get it to orbit.
Getting to orbital velocity requires far more energy than getting to
altitude on the sort of suborbital trajectory that SpaceShipTwo will use.

Jeff
--
"Take heart amid the deepening gloom
that your dog is finally getting enough cheese" - Deteriorata - National
Lampoon


  #4  
Old May 10th 10, 10:59 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy,sci.astro,sci.physics
Marvin the Martian
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Default "SpaceShipTwo could be single stage to SUBorbit"

On Mon, 10 May 2010 11:47:15 -0700, Robert Clark wrote:

Interesting article he

SpaceShipTwo could be single stage to suborbit says ESA firm. By Rob
Coppinger
on April 29, 2010 4:24 PM
"Virgin Galactic's SpaceShipTwo could be a single stage to suborbit
vehicle using liquid chemical propulsion according to independent
research carried out by a company that has been contracted by the
European Space Agency for suborbital and hypersonic transport studies."
"... the UK firm came to the conclusion that the volume within which SS2
carries its solid rocket motor and nitrous oxide supply could equally
hold a liquid chemical propulsion system capable of providing enough
thrust for long enough for a horizontal take-off and ascent to 50,000ft
and above without the need for WK2."
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/hy...shiptwo-could-

be-single-s.html

If you also filled up the passenger compartment with fuel leaving only a
pilot's cabin could it even become orbital?


Bob Clark


The delta V for LEO is about 9 km/s. No fracken way in hell is that
little plastic thing going to go to LEO. Maybe if you strapped a nuclear
rocket engine to it, but those are illegal.

It's simply the rocket equation.

Basically, all this damned thing does is go up and come down. Orbit is a
completely different matter. People who don't understand the rocket
equation and the difference between LEO and a sounding rocket get a jazz
out of "space ship two", but they're stupid putzes.
  #5  
Old May 11th 10, 01:10 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Alain Fournier[_2_]
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Posts: 373
Default "SpaceShipTwo could be single stage to SUBorbit"

Robert Clark wrote:

Interesting article he

SpaceShipTwo could be single stage to suborbit says ESA firm.
By Rob Coppinger
on April 29, 2010 4:24 PM
"Virgin Galactic's SpaceShipTwo could be a single stage to suborbit
vehicle using liquid chemical propulsion according to independent
research carried out by a company that has been contracted by the
European Space Agency for suborbital and hypersonic transport
studies."
"... the UK firm came to the conclusion that the volume within which
SS2 carries its solid rocket motor and nitrous oxide supply could
equally hold a liquid chemical propulsion system capable of providing
enough thrust for long enough for a horizontal take-off and ascent to
50,000ft and above without the need for WK2."
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/hy...-single-s.html

If you also filled up the passenger compartment with fuel leaving only
a pilot's cabin could it even become orbital?



I can reach a suborbital trajectory by jumping with the power of my
legs, not a very high suborbital trajectory but still suborbital. I
think what was meant to be said by the above is that SpaceShipTwo
could reach space as a single stage. That is still a very far cry
from reaching orbit.


Alain Fournier
  #6  
Old May 11th 10, 01:57 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy,sci.astro,sci.physics
Jeff Findley
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Posts: 5,012
Default "SpaceShipTwo could be single stage to SUBorbit"


"Marvin the Martian" wrote in message
...
The delta V for LEO is about 9 km/s. No fracken way in hell is that
little plastic thing going to go to LEO. Maybe if you strapped a nuclear
rocket engine to it, but those are illegal.

It's simply the rocket equation.

Basically, all this damned thing does is go up and come down. Orbit is a
completely different matter. People who don't understand the rocket
equation and the difference between LEO and a sounding rocket get a jazz
out of "space ship two", but they're stupid putzes.


Actually, ignorant can be fixed. Stupid can't. In most cases, it's easy
enough to explain that orbital velocity is so fast that you really do need a
huge amount of fuel and oxidizer to get into orbit. The X-15 example helps
somewhat too. The X-15 could fly high or fast, but could not do both on the
same mission. And even the X-15's high speed flights only achieved a small
fraction of orbital velocity.

SpaceShipTwo is designed to fly high, not fast. You need both to make it
into orbit.

Jeff
--
"Take heart amid the deepening gloom
that your dog is finally getting enough cheese" - Deteriorata - National
Lampoon


  #7  
Old May 11th 10, 05:18 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy,sci.astro,sci.physics
Rick Jones[_3_]
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Posts: 587
Default "SpaceShipTwo could be single stage to SUBorbit"

In sci.space.history Robert Clark wrote:
"Have open architecture like Linux to allow other people to develop
new vehicles and revolutionize new industrial uses of space," said
Will Whitehorn, president of Virgin Galactic, Virgin's spaceline.


Linux is not only open, but *free* - no licensing fees. Can the same
be said of WhiteKnightTwo?

rick jones
--
The glass is neither half-empty nor half-full. The glass has a leak.
The real question is "Can it be patched?"
these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway...
feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH...
  #8  
Old May 11th 10, 05:23 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy,sci.astro,sci.physics
Robert Clark
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Posts: 1,150
Default "SpaceShipTwo could be single stage to SUBorbit"

On May 10, 2:47*pm, Robert Clark wrote:
*Interesting article he

SpaceShipTwo could be single stage to suborbit says ESA firm.
By Rob Coppinger
on April 29, 2010 4:24 PM
"Virgin Galactic's SpaceShipTwo could be a single stage to suborbit
vehicle using liquid chemical propulsion according to independent
research carried out by a company that has been contracted by the
European Space Agency for suborbital and hypersonic transport
studies."
"... the UK firm came to the conclusion that the volume within which
SS2 carries its solid rocket motor and nitrous oxide supply could
equally hold a liquid chemical propulsion system capable of providing
enough thrust for long enough for a horizontal take-off and ascent to
50,000ft and above without the need for WK2."http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/hyperbola/2010/04/spaceshiptwo-coul...

If you also filled up the passenger compartment with fuel leaving only
a pilot's cabin could it even become orbital?



Another interesting article:

Virgin Galactic unveils SpaceShipTwo; Plans open architecture
spaceship.
By Larry Dignan | January 23, 2008, 7:42am PST
'“Our vision of White Knight 2 would be part of a much longer
development program. Have open architecture like Linux to allow other
people to develop new vehicles and revolutionize new industrial uses
of space,” said Will Whitehorn, president of Virgin Galactic, Virgin’s
spaceline.
"Whitehorn clarified the open architecture point a bit: He said that
if interested parties come to Virgin and Scaled Composites they can
use key points such as WhiteKnightTwo’s wing to build new aircraft.
“We will work with people that come to work with us to do new things
with the WhiteKnightTwo. If people come to us we’ll work with them.”
"Whitehorn added that interested parties are already in discussions
about building off of the properties of WhiteKnightTwo, but wasn’t
going to name names. Overall, Virgin Galactic wasn’t detailing
technical details behind the spaceship effort."
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/virgin...spaceship/7678

If Virgin Galactic really is serious about this then I foresee
passenger orbital flights proceeding quite apace!


Bob Clark

  #9  
Old May 11th 10, 05:42 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy,sci.astro,sci.physics
Robert Clark
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Posts: 1,150
Default "SpaceShipTwo could be single stage to SUBorbit"

On May 10, 3:24*pm, Bob Myers wrote:
On 5/10/2010 12:47 PM, Robert Clark wrote:

If you also filled up the passenger compartment with fuel leaving only
a pilot's cabin could it even become orbital?


Even if it could, the next question would be how you'd plan on
DE-orbiting in a survivable manner...

Bob M.


True you would also have to add on the weight of thermal protection
for reentry from orbital speeds.

Bob Clark
  #10  
Old May 11th 10, 09:17 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy,sci.astro,sci.physics
Bob Myers
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Posts: 123
Default "SpaceShipTwo could be single stage to SUBorbit"

On 5/11/2010 6:57 AM, Jeff Findley wrote:

Actually, ignorant can be fixed. Stupid can't. In most cases, it's easy
enough to explain that orbital velocity is so fast that you really do need a
huge amount of fuel and oxidizer to get into orbit. The X-15 example helps
somewhat too. The X-15 could fly high or fast, but could not do both on the
same mission. And even the X-15's high speed flights only achieved a small
fraction of orbital velocity.


It would seem we need an explanation akin to something Douglas Adams
might have written - you know, comparable to "Space is big. You just won't
believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may
think
it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts
to space."

However, I seem to recall that there was an idea, part of the old Air
Force "Man In Space, Soonest" proposals, that did involve basically
strapping on some additional boost to an X-15 and getting the thing into
orbit, no? Not sure how they were planning on dealing with the "getting
it back down" problem, either...

Bob M.


 




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