Galaxies already had enough material to form planets and life inthe early Universe!

Baby galaxies grew up quickly
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Ba...ickly_999.html

Quote:
Up until now, researchers thought that it had taken billions of years for stars to form and with that, galaxies with a high content of elements heavier than hydrogen and helium. But new research from the Niels Bohr Institute shows that this process went surprisingly quickly in some galaxies.

"We have studied 10 galaxies in the early Universe and analysed their light spectra. We are observing light from the galaxies that has been on a 10-12 billion year journey to Earth, so we see the galaxies as they were then. Our expectation was that they would be relatively primitive and poor in heavier elements, but we discovered somewhat to our surprise that the gas in some of the galaxies and thus the stars in them had a very high content of heavier elements. The gas was just as enriched as our own Sun," explains Professor Johan Fynbo from the Dark Cosmology Centre at the Niels Bohr Institute, University of Copenhagen.

So is 12 or 13 billion year old life, possible? Looks like it might have
been superficially possible. Still we'd have to know the specific
conditions inside those early galaxies. They could've been wracked with
a lot of supernova explosions near life-forming solar systems, thus
destroying their life. Much like life chemicals were always existent in
the early Solar System, but conditions weren't exactly right until maybe
3.5 billion years ago. Similar sort of problems may have occurred in
those early galaxies, but in a galaxy-wide scenario.

Yousuf Khan

On 5/19/12 9:33 AM, Yousuf Khan wrote:
So is 12 or 13 billion year old life, possible? Looks like it might have
been superficially possible. Still we'd have to know the specific
conditions inside those early galaxies. They could've been wracked with
a lot of supernova explosions near life-forming solar systems, thus
destroying their life. Much like life chemicals were always existent in
the early Solar System, but conditions weren't exactly right until maybe
3.5 billion years ago. Similar sort of problems may have occurred in
those early galaxies, but in a galaxy-wide scenario.

Yousuf Khan

Why not--life can get by with H, C, N and O with the latter three
first being generated in Population III Stars.

Sam Wormley wrote:

Why not--life can get by with H, C, N and O with the latter three
first being generated in Population III Stars.

Those four elements are essential, but insufficient.

http://promega.wordpress.com/2010/12...l-maybe-not-p/

--
pete

On Sat, 19 May 2012 12:58:53 -0400, pete
wrote:

Sam Wormley wrote:

Why not--life can get by with H, C, N and O with the latter three
first being generated in Population III Stars.

Those four elements are essential, but insufficient.

http://promega.wordpress.com/2010/12...l-maybe-not-p/

"Those four elements are essential, but insufficient"

Insufficient is right. It is child's play to define at least one other
requirement.
You still need someone clever enough to devise 4 chemicals, adnine,
guanine, cytosine and thymine.
And then he has to string billions of these together in just the
proper sequence on a molecule 2 meters long and coil it up inside
each cell, so it won't get damaged from random handling and will, in
addition, arrange for it to self reproduce.

John Polasek

On May 19, 6:58*pm, pete wrote:
Sam Wormley wrote:
* *Why not--life can get by with H, C, N and O with the latter three
* *first being generated in Population III Stars.

Those four elements are essential, but insufficient.

http://promega.wordpress.com/2010/12...ements-for-lif...

--
pete

Doesn't DNA wear out with time? Too many replications, with too many
errors, produces senility, weakness and cancers in old age. Would the
same hold true for an entire species?

What keeps them going when they know everything and have tried
everything? Would their will to live and reproduce keep going
indefinitely?

The human race is already showing signs of general dissatisfaction
with its lot. Apathy, drug, alcohol and food abuse is rife.

Mass escapism through virtual reality existence is now the norm for
many. Passive sport watching by proxy has replaced continuous tribal
warfare. Supporting (any) politics or religious faith is a game for
mugs. Neither has any useful answers except friction and strife. Big
money controls everything which matters.

Hard physical work is a rarity for the majority in many "advanced"
nations. The general populace preferring to import cheap labour to
carry out the menial tasks. Even at great personal risk to their own
health. Through obesity, apathy and almost total inactivity. The
birthrate is dropping almost everywhere. While the prison population
climbs everywhere.

The retail sector has reduced most shopping centres to a chain store
tedium. Hotels and holidays are uniformly presented globally. Products
and advertising have become uniformly boring. The Hollywood/Bollywood
conveyor belt has completely lost its inspiration. Vast fortunes are
spent playing "let's pretend" without any obvious grip on the most
basic reality. Individuality is no longer desirable except in role
playing, talentless entertainers vying for global attention in the
mutually corrupt and parasitic media.

Black boxes with minimalist decoration adorn our internationally
uniform homes. We seek further escape from reality by role playing the
past. Though antique collection or riding an old but immaculately
restored classic car or bike. Or taking luxury holidays in "backward"
countries.

We haven't been at this top of the intellectual tree for very long but
are already showing signs of chronic fatigue. The majority now spend
their entire lives sitting in front of a computer screen. Doing
utterly worthless tasks with regard to the continued existence of the
human race. How, on earth, are we going to be able to reinvent
ourselves now? Descent into anarchy and feuding warlords? We have that
already on our city streets but are powerless to change anything for
the better.

On May 19, 10:47*am, Sam Wormley wrote:
On 5/19/12 9:33 AM, Yousuf Khan wrote:

So is 12 or 13 billion year old life, possible? Looks like it might have
been superficially possible. Still we'd have to know the specific
conditions inside those early galaxies. They could've been wracked with
a lot of supernova explosions near life-forming solar systems, thus
destroying their life. Much like life chemicals were always existent in
the early Solar System, but conditions weren't exactly right until maybe
3.5 billion years ago. Similar sort of problems may have occurred in
those early galaxies, but in a galaxy-wide scenario.

* * *Yousuf Khan

* *Why not--life can get by with H, C, N and O with the latter three
* *first being generated in Population III Stars.

Make age universe 22 B years and you can have life way back to 15 B
years. Get the picture TreBert

On 19/05/2012 10:47 AM, Sam Wormley wrote:
On 5/19/12 9:33 AM, Yousuf Khan wrote:
So is 12 or 13 billion year old life, possible? Looks like it might have
been superficially possible. Still we'd have to know the specific
conditions inside those early galaxies. They could've been wracked with
a lot of supernova explosions near life-forming solar systems, thus
destroying their life. Much like life chemicals were always existent in
the early Solar System, but conditions weren't exactly right until maybe
3.5 billion years ago. Similar sort of problems may have occurred in
those early galaxies, but in a galaxy-wide scenario.

Yousuf Khan

Why not--life can get by with H, C, N and O with the latter three
first being generated in Population III Stars.

Still need Fe, Ni, Si, and other metals to form the planets. If the Pop
III stars were mostly 100 Msun+ behemoths, then likely they stopped at C
& O before they went pair-instability supernova. So those supernovas
wouldn't have produced the elements upto Fe.

Yousuf Khan

On 19/05/2012 1:43 PM, Chris.B wrote:
On May 19, 6:58 pm, wrote:
Sam Wormley wrote:
Why not--life can get by with H, C, N and O with the latter three
first being generated in Population III Stars.

Those four elements are essential, but insufficient.

http://promega.wordpress.com/2010/12...ements-for-lif...

--
pete

Doesn't DNA wear out with time? Too many replications, with too many
errors, produces senility, weakness and cancers in old age. Would the
same hold true for an entire species?

The DNA gets repaired slightly with sexual reproduction.

What keeps them going when they know everything and have tried
everything? Would their will to live and reproduce keep going
indefinitely?

Why not? A big Universe out there.

The human race is already showing signs of general dissatisfaction
with its lot. Apathy, drug, alcohol and food abuse is rife.

snip

Bit of a stretch to link that to "tired and senile DNA".

Yousuf Khan

"John Polasek" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 May 2012 12:58:53 -0400, pete
wrote:

Sam Wormley wrote:

Why not--life can get by with H, C, N and O with the latter three
first being generated in Population III Stars.

Those four elements are essential, but insufficient.

http://promega.wordpress.com/2010/12...l-maybe-not-p/

"Those four elements are essential, but insufficient"

Insufficient is right. It is child's play to define at least one other
requirement.

A source of energy, such as lightning.


You still need someone clever enough to devise 4 chemicals, adnine,
guanine, cytosine and thymine.

That's an illogical fallacy, it requires life (he) to exist before life can
exist.

And then he has to string billions of these together in just the
proper sequence on a molecule 2 meters long and coil it up inside
each cell, so it won't get damaged from random handling and will, in
addition, arrange for it to self reproduce.

It does get randomly "damaged", i.e. arranged.

On 5/19/12 1:27 PM, G=EMC^2 wrote:
On May 19, 10:47 am, Sam wrote:
On 5/19/12 9:33 AM, Yousuf Khan wrote:

So is 12 or 13 billion year old life, possible? Looks like it might have
been superficially possible. Still we'd have to know the specific
conditions inside those early galaxies. They could've been wracked with
a lot of supernova explosions near life-forming solar systems, thus
destroying their life. Much like life chemicals were always existent in
the early Solar System, but conditions weren't exactly right until maybe
3.5 billion years ago. Similar sort of problems may have occurred in
those early galaxies, but in a galaxy-wide scenario.

Yousuf Khan

Why not--life can get by with H, C, N and O with the latter three
first being generated in Population III Stars.

Make age universe 22 B years and you can have life way back to 15 B
years. Get the picture TreBert


Wrong Picture, Herb! Four (4) independent measures peg the age of
our universe at 13.7 Gyr. End of Story!