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More Evidence The Shuttle Program Should Be Scrapped



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 1st 05, 02:07 AM
John Slade
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Default More Evidence The Shuttle Program Should Be Scrapped

Just read this story on AP. I mean if this doesn't start lightbulbs to
going off in the minds of NASA engineers, Congressmen and wanabe space
experts, then nothing will.
I know the shuttle was a great program when it started or so it seemed. But
all things must come to an end. 20 years is long enough. Some folk look at
the space shuttle and are so proud. Well I'm not. It represents what's wrong
with America today. Sweep the problem under the rug and pray everything
works out. That's why we have horrible schools and unreliable space
shuttles. Pride goeth before the fall.

Maybe they can get the guys out there at Area 51 to release some of
that alien technology to NASA then we could really get things going!

John
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------
http://snipurl.com/gmoq
By MARCIA DUNN, AP Aerospace Writer 26 minutes ago

A couple short strips of fabric dangling from Discovery's belly may require
an unprecedented repair by spacewalking astronauts, if engineers determine
there's even a possibility that the problem could endanger the shuttle
during descent, NASA said Sunday.

Teams of experts were scrambling to understand just how serious the problem
was, with "strong arguments" raging on what to do, if anything.

The trouble has nothing to do with foam or other launch debris, but rather
the accidental slippage of ceramic-fiber cloth used to fill the thin gaps
between thermal tiles, which some engineers worry could trigger potentially
treacherous overheating during re-entry.

It will be Monday before the analysis is complete and mission managers
decide whether to have the crew's two spacewalkers cut or pull the two
hanging strips.

If NASA's spacewalking specialists come up with a relatively easy solution,
"Why worry? Why would you not just go take care of it?" deputy shuttle
program manager Wayne Hale said Sunday evening. "Why should I lose sleep
over these gap fillers if we can take care of them that easy?"

Such a spacewalking feat would be a first: In 24 years of shuttle flight,
astronauts have never ventured beneath their spacecraft in orbit and have
made few repairs to their ship, certainly none of this magnitude.

Discovery and its crew of seven may be perfectly safe to fly back in a week
with the drooping strips, officials stressed, as space shuttles have done
many times before, although not necessarily with pieces that large.

Hale, in fact, did not think it was that big a deal when he first learned of
the problem a few days ago.

"My immediate knee-jerk reaction was that we can live with this," he said.
"On the other hand, this is bigger than we've seen before."

One piece is sticking out 1.1 inches between the thermal tiles, the other
protrudes at an angle from six-tenths to nine-tenths of an inch. For those
areas, far forward near the nose, the general wisdom and flight history
indicate that the limit should be a quarter-inch, said flight director Paul
Hill.

Hill noted, however, that the quarter-inch measurement was taken following
previous re-entries and the intense heat could have burned some of the
material off. Discovery's flaws were spotted in orbit - a first - because of
all the photography and laser imaging being aimed at normally hard-to-see
spots, an outcome of the 2003 Columbia disaster.

On a flight by Columbia in 1995, the shuttle returned with a gap filler that
protruded 0.6 inches, but the material was rolled up and located farther
back on the belly, in an area less likely to overheat, said Steve Poulos,
manager of the orbiter project office. When unrolled, it was 1.4 inches
long. The only overheating effect was to nearby damaged tiles.

"Tonight they're working overtime trying to compress, I believe the phrase
was, a decade's worth of study into two days," Hale told reporters.

The extremely thin gap fillers are held in place with glue and by the tight
fit of the thermal tiles; thousands cover the shuttle. Poulos speculated
that on Discovery, the glue may have come loose.

Any repair, if deemed necessary, would most likely be performed during the
third and final spacewalk of the mission on Wednesday, although a fourth
unplanned spacewalk might be required. The second spacewalk, for space
station repairs, is set for Monday.

The astronaut would have to stand on either the shuttle or station's 50-foot
robotic arm in order to reach the two hanging strips of filler. There are
drawbacks to using either arm, namely clearance and time constraints.
There's also the possibility, however remote, that the spacewalker or the
arm might bang into the shuttle and damage something.

"There are pretty strong arguments for and against most of the options,"
Hill said.

One extreme option would be to put an astronaut on the end of the brand new
100-foot inspection crane, but it would likely be a bouncy ride and that
makes spacewalk and robotic specialists nervous. Poulos said Sunday evening
that that option was considered, but ruled out.

Anything dangling from the normally smooth bottom of the shuttle will
overheat the area and downstream locations during re-entry. As it is,
temperatures there typically hit 2,300 degrees.

A hole in Columbia's left wing, carved out by a large chunk of flyaway
fuel-tank foam, led to the spacecraft's destruction during re-entry on Feb.
1, 2003. All seven astronauts were killed.

NASA has cleared Discovery's thermal tiles for landing on Aug. 8; they
constitute the vast majority of the shuttle's exterior. The only remaining
issues, before the final go-ahead can be given for descent, are the
reinforced carbon panels that line the wings and nose cap, and the two
dragging gap fillers.

In a series of TV interviews from space, commander Eileen Collins and her
crew said they believe Discovery is safe to come home. She expressed
surprise and disappointment that a big piece of foam came off Discovery's
redesigned tank during last Tuesday's liftoff, after everyone - including
herself - signed off on analysis showing that the specific area did not need
to be improved in the wake of the Columbia tragedy.

"Was there a sound technical reason why they made that decision or was it
subject to cost pressures or schedule pressures?" said astronaut Andrew
Thomas. "I think we do need to address the question of why that area was not
examined."

___

On the Net:

NASA: http://www.nasa.gov/returntoflight/main/index.html

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------


  #2  
Old August 1st 05, 03:05 AM
Damon Hill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"John Slade" wrote in
:

Just read this story on AP. I mean if this doesn't start
lightbulbs to going off in the minds of NASA engineers, Congressmen
and wanabe space experts, then nothing will.


(snip)

A couple short strips of fabric dangling from Discovery's belly may
require an unprecedented repair by spacewalking astronauts, if
engineers determine there's even a possibility that the problem could
endanger the shuttle during descent, NASA said Sunday.


Much fuss over not very much at all. Good excuse for hands-on
practice of repairs in case some sort of significant damage ever
occurs on future flights.

Chill out, John.

--Damon
  #3  
Old August 1st 05, 04:23 AM
John Slade
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Default


"Bruce Palmer" wrote in message
...
John Slade wrote:
Just read this story on AP. I mean if this doesn't start lightbulbs

to
going off in the minds of NASA engineers, Congressmen and wanabe space
experts, then nothing will.


As opposed to a complete ignoramus like yourself?


Personal attacks are immature.


I know the shuttle was a great program when it started or so it seemed.

But
all things must come to an end. 20 years is long enough. Some folk look

at

It's been 25 years, but who's counting?


Actually it's been 24 years since the first shuttle was launched but
like you say, who's counting?

How old are you? The
over/under for wagering is 15.


Imagine that, the geniuses at NASA are considering putting vehicles on
top of rockets like they used to do with capsules. So if I were a 15 year
old, I would feel really smart since NASA is considering this idea. I was
saying that capsules can be safer and more reliable for years along with
lots of other folk.

BTW. Personal attacks are very childish.



the space shuttle and are so proud. Well I'm not. It represents what's

wrong
with America today. Sweep the problem under the rug and pray everything


Somebody needs to beat you with a big cluestick.


Personal attacks are really immature.


works out. That's why we have horrible schools and unreliable space
shuttles. Pride goeth before the fall.


Thunp your bible someplace else.


It's the truth. Pride is one of the worst things there is. To bee too
prideful is to shrink from admitting mistakes. NASA has done this in the
past.


Maybe they can get the guys out there at Area 51 to release some of
that alien technology to NASA then we could really get things going!


... and welcome to my killfile.


Why is it that someone always has to tell you before the put you in
their killfile? It seems they really care if you know they did. I've always
said that killfiles are for cowards only in extreme cases should they be
used. I can understand why my posts are to hard to take by Bruce here. He
knows I was right and now the guys at NASA seem to think the same way I do.
I wish they had thought this way years ago.

John


  #4  
Old August 1st 05, 07:01 AM
No Body
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Posts: n/a
Default

Damon Hill wrote:
"John Slade" wrote in
:
A couple short strips of fabric dangling from Discovery's belly may
require an unprecedented repair by spacewalking astronauts, if
engineers determine there's even a possibility that the problem could
endanger the shuttle during descent, NASA said Sunday.


based on information never collected before, so there is no history if
this is/is not a pre-existing condition.. ?

Much fuss over not very much at all. Good excuse for hands-on
practice of repairs in case some sort of significant damage ever
occurs on future flights.


... or full of potential to screw something else up, by scarring or
dislodging a tile completely. not saying this WILL happen, just it an
increased risk of causing a second problem while trying to fix the first
one.

meself, if they are safe where they are, leave them. if i had a nickel
for every 'aw sh*t' event I had working on one of my mechanical toys.. :/

-r (not a total klutz, but hey.. the potential is there
  #5  
Old August 1st 05, 05:22 PM
Dr. P. Quackenbush
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"John Slade" wrote in message
.. .
Just read this story on AP. I mean if this doesn't start lightbulbs

to
going off in the minds of NASA engineers, Congressmen and wanabe space
experts, then nothing will.
I know the shuttle was a great program when it started or so it seemed.

But
all things must come to an end. 20 years is long enough. Some folk look at
the space shuttle and are so proud. Well I'm not. It represents what's

wrong
with America today. Sweep the problem under the rug and pray everything
works out. That's why we have horrible schools and unreliable space
shuttles. Pride goeth before the fall.

Maybe they can get the guys out there at Area 51 to release some of
that alien technology to NASA then we could really get things going!

John



yawn

plonk



  #6  
Old August 1st 05, 07:47 PM
John Slade
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Dr. P. Quackenbush" wrote in message
nk.net...

"John Slade" wrote in message
.. .
Just read this story on AP. I mean if this doesn't start lightbulbs

to
going off in the minds of NASA engineers, Congressmen and wanabe space
experts, then nothing will.
I know the shuttle was a great program when it started or so it seemed.

But
all things must come to an end. 20 years is long enough. Some folk look

at
the space shuttle and are so proud. Well I'm not. It represents what's

wrong
with America today. Sweep the problem under the rug and pray everything
works out. That's why we have horrible schools and unreliable space
shuttles. Pride goeth before the fall.

Maybe they can get the guys out there at Area 51 to release some of
that alien technology to NASA then we could really get things going!

John



yawn

plonk


If it was so yawn worthy, why even respond?

John


  #7  
Old August 1st 05, 10:04 PM
Christopher P. Winter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 01:07:53 GMT, "John Slade" wrote
(in part):

Just read this story on AP. I mean if this doesn't start lightbulbs to
going off in the minds of NASA engineers, Congressmen and wanabe space
experts, then nothing will.

http://snipurl.com/gmoq
By MARCIA DUNN, AP Aerospace Writer 26 minutes ago

A couple short strips of fabric dangling from Discovery's belly may require
an unprecedented repair by spacewalking astronauts, if engineers determine
there's even a possibility that the problem could endanger the shuttle
during descent, NASA said Sunday.

Teams of experts were scrambling to understand just how serious the problem
was, with "strong arguments" raging on what to do, if anything.


If (as seems likely) previous flights have had protruding gap fillers,
and if they really do raise the tile temperature enough to be a concern, ISTM
there should be evidence in the form of erosion at the edges of downstream
tiles. Does anyone know if such has been seen?

  #8  
Old August 2nd 05, 04:35 AM
Jorge R. Frank
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Christopher P. Winter wrote in
:

On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 01:07:53 GMT, "John Slade"
wrote (in part):

Just read this story on AP. I mean if this doesn't start
lightbulbs to
going off in the minds of NASA engineers, Congressmen and wanabe space
experts, then nothing will.

http://snipurl.com/gmoq
By MARCIA DUNN, AP Aerospace Writer 26 minutes ago

A couple short strips of fabric dangling from Discovery's belly may
require an unprecedented repair by spacewalking astronauts, if
engineers determine there's even a possibility that the problem could
endanger the shuttle during descent, NASA said Sunday.

Teams of experts were scrambling to understand just how serious the
problem was, with "strong arguments" raging on what to do, if
anything.


If (as seems likely) previous flights have had protruding gap
fillers,
and if they really do raise the tile temperature enough to be a
concern, ISTM there should be evidence in the form of erosion at the
edges of downstream tiles. Does anyone know if such has been seen?


Yes, most notably on STS-73, whose gap filler most closely matched the size
of the one protruding on the current flight.

--
JRF

Reply-to address spam-proofed - to reply by E-mail,
check "Organization" (I am not assimilated) and
think one step ahead of IBM.
 




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