How does Elektron work?

John Doe wrote:
It is interesting that they mentioned the Mir-1 O2 generator as having shown
very good long term reliability.

A statement, when coming from NASA, is emphatically *not* to be
trusted. NASA has already been shown as being complicit in covering
up Russian problems and lying outright about the safety and
reliability of their craft. (Not to mention that the statement about
MIR-1 generator contradicts evidence from elsewhere.)

Also interesting that they mention that it is not maintainable in space.

Not a good idea I warrant.

If the cores of the Mir O2 generator and Elektron on ISS are roughly the same,
then perhaps the problems on ISS arise from the new controls and sensors that
were put in as a result of moving the unit from a manual control to a computer
control with telemetry data being fed to computers etc etc.

Possibly. It's also probable that they haven't fixed the problems
already existing.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

(Derek Lyons) wrote in message ...

Are the current ISS units -1 or -2 designs?

D.

This isn't clear at all. As noted, that document is quite old, dating
from the very early days of russia joining the project. They at least
seem to have included the extended computer control mentioned in that
document, but that could be a 1.5 version.

It is also interesting that the original unit lasted 3 years or so,
although perhaps with a reduced duty cycle (they had 2 Elektrons
avialable simulataniously on MIR in its later configurations, and
still got some oxygen from progress because of power restrictions).

It is also interesting to note how much of the information provided by
the Russians at the time was incomplete or inconsistant.

Finally, if the urine processor used on Mir were present on ISS, the
water crisis resulting from the columbia accident would seem to have
been a non-issue.

(hop) wrote:

It is also interesting to note how much of the information provided by
the Russians at the time was incomplete or inconsistant.

The more things change, the more things stay the same.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

from rusty bartons excellent thread found he

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&c2coff=1&safe=off&threadm=slrncl9824.var.andrew. gray%40compsoc.dur.ac.uk&prev=/groups%3Fnum%3D25%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26group%3Dsci.space.history%26c2coff%3D1%26safe% 3Doff%26start%3D25

Less detail:
http://www.jamesoberg.com/elektron2_tec.html
http://www.spaceref.com/iss/ops/sm.l...port.book2.pdf

One question. When you do electrolysis on earth, the bubbles of oxygen and
hydrogen float up. This of course wouldn't happen in zero g. So how do they
get that to work? Sorry if that's in the technical docs, haven't had time
to fully digest them yet. Thanks,

David

"John Doe" wrote in message ...
It is interesting that they mentioned the Mir-1 O2 generator as having
shown
very good long term reliability. Also interesting that they mention that
it is
not maintainable in space.

If the cores of the Mir O2 generator and Elektron on ISS are roughly the
same,
then perhaps the problems on ISS arise from the new controls and sensors
that
were put in as a result of moving the unit from a manual control to a
computer
control with telemetry data being fed to computers etc etc.

Elektron had many problems on Mir. By the time NASA got involved, they had
to use the shuttle to bring up a new Elektron because of the many problems
they were having with the units on Mir. From memory, Mir had a prototype
unit in Kvant-1 and had an "operational" unit in Kvant-2. The shuttle
brought up a third unit.

Remember the fire on Mir from the O2 candle? They were "burning" those O2
candles on Mir because of problems with Elektron. ISS is being run the same
way.

Jeff
--
Remove icky phrase from email address to get a valid address.

"hop" wrote in message
om...
It is also interesting that the original unit lasted 3 years or so,
although perhaps with a reduced duty cycle (they had 2 Elektrons
avialable simulataniously on MIR in its later configurations, and
still got some oxygen from progress because of power restrictions).

And by the time the Shuttle-Mir program got going, the US had to bring up a
third Elektron because of the many problems with the second unit.

Jeff
--
Remove icky phrase from email address to get a valid address.

Jeff Findley wrote:
Remember the fire on Mir from the O2 candle? They were "burning" those O2
candles on Mir because of problems with Elektron. ISS is being run the same
way.

It was my understanding that they were burning candles because they had
visitors in Mir and thus more people than the elektron could support. Can
anyone confirm or deny this ?

The memory of "John Doe" coincides with mine.

BTW, "John Doe", if you want to swap email directly with me
at jameseoberg at houston dot rr dot com,
I'd be mightly obliged....

"John Doe" wrote in message ...
Jeff Findley wrote:
Remember the fire on Mir from the O2 candle? They were "burning" those
O2
candles on Mir because of problems with Elektron. ISS is being run the
same
way.

It was my understanding that they were burning candles because they had
visitors in Mir and thus more people than the elektron could support. Can
anyone confirm or deny this ?

In message
David Findlay wrote:

One question. When you do electrolysis on earth, the bubbles of oxygen and
hydrogen float up. This of course wouldn't happen in zero g. So how do they
get that to work? Sorry if that's in the technical docs, haven't had time
to fully digest them yet. Thanks,

Looks like there's a continuous flow past the electrodes straight into
the extraction tubes, so the hydrogen bubbles get washed out along one
path and the oxygen through the other. The gases get extracted and the
surplus electrolyte is pumped back around. I'd guess that is where most
of the cross-bleed of gases happens.

Anthony

"Jim Oberg" wrote in message
...
The memory of "John Doe" coincides with mine.

BTW, "John Doe", if you want to swap email directly with me
at jameseoberg at houston dot rr dot com,
I'd be mightly obliged....

"John Doe" wrote in message
...
Jeff Findley wrote:
Remember the fire on Mir from the O2 candle? They were "burning"
those
O2
candles on Mir because of problems with Elektron. ISS is being run
the
same
way.

It was my understanding that they were burning candles because they had
visitors in Mir and thus more people than the elektron could support.
Can
anyone confirm or deny this ?

You're both right. At that specific time, they were burning O2 candles due
to the six crewmembers on Mir.

However, I thought this was because the Russians only had one working
Elektron at that time. If both had been working, would there have been a
need to burn O2 candles when there was a visiting Soyuz?

Reading the history of flights like Mir NASA 3 and 4 reveals numerous
references to Elektrons breaking down:

http://www.astronautix.com/flights/mirnasa3.htm
http://www.astronautix.com/flights/mirnasa4.htm

Jeff
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Remove icky phrase from email address to get a valid address.