A Space & astronomy forum. SpaceBanter.com

Go Back   Home » SpaceBanter.com forum » Space Science » Space Station
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Keith Cowing Thinks NASA Will Grow Plants on the Moon



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old October 18th 07, 06:10 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,sci.space.shuttle,sci.space.station
robert casey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 790
Default Keith Cowing Thinks NASA Will Grow Plants on the Moon


:And then you'd need some of the astronauts who like to garden to take
:care of the farm plants. But not everyone is into gardening.
:

Why would they have to like to garden? Most people make their livings
doing things they don't like. That's why 'work' is a 4-letter word.


Yes, but the astronauts will be busy working on more important stuff,
research, building the structures and so on, and they will need time to
relax. "Now I gotta do farming? Forget it, just pack and send up a few
more boxes of frozen veggies...". Sure, you could send more astronauts,
but they place that much bigger demand on the moon base, and thus things
won't "scale" in favor of having "farmers", at least not at first. Of
course, if you send up a biologist on a research mission, then the
farming could work.



Not practical. How are you going to get your 'simulated low gravity'.
Keep in mind the size of the Shuttle bay.


True, but you might be able to pick out some plants that are physically
small and guaranteed to grow. Small bean plants maybe. Though having a
flywheel in the shuttle bay could make maneuvering the shuttle a little
more interesting...
  #12  
Old October 18th 07, 08:22 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,sci.space.shuttle,sci.space.station
Pat Flannery
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,465
Default Keith Cowing Thinks NASA Will Grow Plants on the Moon



robert casey wrote:
Of course, if you send up a biologist on a research mission, then the
farming could work.



Particularly when the plants mutate the way the salmonella did in space,
and the female biologist is chased around by a eight-foot-long horny
banana and forced to defend herself with a pointed stick.




Not practical. How are you going to get your 'simulated low gravity'.
Keep in mind the size of the Shuttle bay.


True, but you might be able to pick out some plants that are
physically small and guaranteed to grow. Small bean plants maybe.
Though having a flywheel in the shuttle bay could make maneuvering the
shuttle a little more interesting...


I don't think beans are a good choice in a atmospherically closed
environment.

Pat
  #13  
Old October 18th 07, 09:32 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,sci.space.shuttle,sci.space.station
robert casey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 790
Default Keith Cowing Thinks NASA Will Grow Plants on the Moon




I don't think beans are a good choice in a atmospherically closed
environment.


Good point! :-)
  #14  
Old October 19th 07, 01:20 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,sci.space.shuttle,sci.space.station
Alan Anderson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 335
Default Keith Cowing Thinks NASA Will Grow Plants on the Moon

In article ,
Pat Flannery wrote:

Particularly when the plants mutate the way the salmonella did in space,


There you go again, exaggerating. The bacteria didn't mutate. There
was no genetic difference between the cells that made the flight and the
cells that remained earthbound. The difference was in the way the
bacterial colonies developed; in the absence of gravity and associated
fluid shear forces, they formed "biofilms" which are much more resistant
to acids and leukocyte attack. The same super-salmonella colonies can
be created without microgravity by carefully controlling the fluid shear
effects even in normal gravity.

and the female biologist is chased around by a eight-foot-long horny
banana and forced to defend herself with a pointed stick.


Oh, you're back to being silly again. I wish there were some way to
tell *before* I take the time to treat your posts seriously.
  #15  
Old October 19th 07, 01:39 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,sci.space.shuttle,sci.space.station
Rand Simberg[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,311
Default Keith Cowing Thinks NASA Will Grow Plants on the Moon

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 20:20:41 -0400, in a place far, far away, Alan
Anderson made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:

In article ,
Pat Flannery wrote:

Particularly when the plants mutate the way the salmonella did in space,


There you go again, exaggerating. The bacteria didn't mutate. There
was no genetic difference between the cells that made the flight and the
cells that remained earthbound. The difference was in the way the
bacterial colonies developed; in the absence of gravity and associated
fluid shear forces, they formed "biofilms" which are much more resistant
to acids and leukocyte attack. The same super-salmonella colonies can
be created without microgravity by carefully controlling the fluid shear
effects even in normal gravity.

and the female biologist is chased around by a eight-foot-long horny
banana and forced to defend herself with a pointed stick.


Oh, you're back to being silly again. I wish there were some way to
tell *before* I take the time to treat your posts seriously.


My time-saving heuristic is to never take the time to treat Pat's
posts seriously. Particularly since he rarely does.
  #16  
Old October 19th 07, 02:32 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,sci.space.shuttle,sci.space.station
Fred J. McCall
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,736
Default Keith Cowing Thinks NASA Will Grow Plants on the Moon

robert casey wrote:

:
: :And then you'd need some of the astronauts who like to garden to take
: :care of the farm plants. But not everyone is into gardening.
: :
:
: Why would they have to like to garden? Most people make their livings
: doing things they don't like. That's why 'work' is a 4-letter word.
:
:Yes, but the astronauts will be busy working on more important stuff,
:research, building the structures and so on, and they will need time to
:relax.
:

Same argument applies, whether they happen to 'like' farming or not.
Either farming is something you need done or it isn't. If it isn't,
then it won't get done.

:
: Not practical. How are you going to get your 'simulated low gravity'.
: Keep in mind the size of the Shuttle bay.
:
:
:True, but you might be able to pick out some plants that are physically
:small and guaranteed to grow. Small bean plants maybe. Though having a
:flywheel in the shuttle bay could make maneuvering the shuttle a little
:more interesting...
:

You also have to look at your 'on orbit' time limit with the Shuttle.
The cheapest way to run this test may be to establish a Moon base and
try it there.


--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
--George Bernard Shaw
  #17  
Old October 19th 07, 02:53 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,sci.space.shuttle,sci.space.station
Alain Fournier[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 373
Default Keith Cowing Thinks NASA Will Grow Plants on the Moon

robert casey wrote:



Technically it's still half day and half night, irrespective of the
length of the day, and the driving technology is energy storage for
lighting. However, I think they were relying on the polar crater thing.



I hate to have to build a storage system that can run lights bright
enough to grow plants. It takes a lot of light to drive photosynthesis,
much more than that needed for human color eyesight.


I think I agree. But I'm wondering, you don't need the plant to thrive
or grow in those two weeks, just survive. I wouldn't be surprised if
5 minutes of intense light every other day would be enough for many
plants. Possibly keeping the place sufficiently warm for those two
weeks would be a bigger problem than light.


Alain Fournier
  #18  
Old October 19th 07, 08:57 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,sci.space.shuttle,sci.space.station
Pat Flannery
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,465
Default Keith Cowing Thinks NASA Will Grow Plants on the Moon



Alan Anderson wrote:
In article ,
Pat Flannery wrote:


Particularly when the plants mutate the way the salmonella did in space,


There you go again, exaggerating. The bacteria didn't mutate. There
was no genetic difference between the cells that made the flight and the
cells that remained earthbound. The difference was in the way the
bacterial colonies developed; in the absence of gravity and associated
fluid shear forces, they formed "biofilms" which are much more resistant
to acids and leukocyte attack. The same super-salmonella colonies can
be created without microgravity by carefully controlling the fluid shear
effects even in normal gravity.


For starters, that was a joke, and I probably should have stuck a smiley
on it
But despite whether the things mutate in orbit or simply grow in a
different manner, if they become variable in form or effects from their
normal development on Earth as they grow, and that difference changes
how people are affected by contact with them, then you gave a problem on
your hands, as our medical science probably isn't ready to deal with
them in their changed form.


and the female biologist is chased around by a eight-foot-long horny
banana and forced to defend herself with a pointed stick.


Oh, you're back to being silly again. I wish there were some way to
tell *before* I take the time to treat your posts seriously.


Well, if you actually were to read a whole sentence or three before
replying you might know.
But that could take nearly thirty seconds, so you probably don't have
time for it.*
It's not like I'm cranking out "Moby Dick" here. :-)
Besides, some people actually liked my funny postings...back before I
said the Shuttle was a piece of crap from the economic and safety
aspects: http://www.zip.com.au/~psmith/HallOfFame.html
And rubbed everyone's noses in it by pointing out what I wrote about a
Shuttle breaking up on reentry back at the end of 2001:
"My personal nightmare scenario in this regard is having a shuttle start
it's re-entry...and around ten minutes later, all this stuff that looks
like chaff starts appearing on the radar scopes... and because it
happened during communications blackout, you
don't have a clue about what happened...unless you can find the scorched
remains of the flight data recorders - which are somewhere in a re-entry
footprint around a thousand miles long."
Here's the thread: http://tinyurl.com/2zmrok
Here's the chaff:
http://www.solcomhouse.com/Columbia_...d_by_radar.jpg
Here's the flight data recorder:
http://history.nasa.gov/columbia/Tro...hotos/OEX3.jpg
And here's the debris footprint:
http://history.nasa.gov/columbia/Tro...earchmaplg.jpg
Although they never found any of it, it started shedding parts over
California, around 1,000 miles away from where it ended up.
I hope I never see Nightmare Scenario #2 occur: one SRB igniting on
liftoff, and the other one not igniting.
That would be like seeing something resembling a volcanic eruption,
although like Columbia, the crew would at least have a mercifully fast
death, which is more than some of Challenger's crew probably did.
The scenario the Challenger investigation was concerned about was a SSME
catastrophically failing during its burn. They thought that was very
likely given enough launches.

*As an aside, I actually caught "Entertainment Tonight" a couple of days
back, and was downright amazed by it - a "news" broadcast with fifteen
second long commercials and ten second long stories.
You can tell which country has a serious problem with methamphetamines,
crack, and caffeine abuse.
Attention span has dropped to virtually zero.
Even Walter Winchell would have a hard time keeping up with reporting at
this speed. :-D
I suspect the war in Iraq isn't unpopular due to expense in national
treasure and lives, but rather that we've lost interest in it, like a TV
series that has run one-too-many seasons.
The ratings have dropped severely as the years go on, and even that
rumored "Iran: WW III" spin-off series doesn't look like it's got the
boffo biz potential of WW II.
I think they jumped the shark when they hung Saddam. Always keep the
villains possibly alive and plotting somewhere, just waiting for a
reappearance when you least expect it.
It worked for Lore and Ernst Stavro Blofeld; it would work here too.
Remember what a great plot twist it was when Napoleon got off Elba?
Wouldn't it be cool if Saddam had a _clone_, and that's the one they caught?
And it works for the good guys too.
Remember how the Romans and Sanhedrin weren't expecting Jesus to pull a
zombie move on them?
Now _that's_ a movie title: "Jesus Christ Has Risen From The
Grave"....then he goes Neo, and flies off into the sky.
And the Apostles become this super-religious Shaolin theological hit
team, traveling the world and doing weird Zen **** to people's minds,
like asking them why they are like a mustard seed that's lying among the
lilies of the field and that people are tossing rocks at.
But the audience knows the Big Guy is coming back in the sequel, and
then some major league ass-kicking is going to occur.
Get me Mel Gibson on the phone, pronto!
So we run with the concept. and make it relevant to today.
They go over to Reagan's grave....and guess what?
_The ****er's empty_!
You know why? Because he's pulled a Jean Grey, and now he's back as
"Dark Ronnie".
And we can even make him African-American in his new hip and urban avatar!
But he's internally conflicted, and can't figure out if he wants to stay
Republican...or become a Black Panther.
The thing writes itself.
Get me Stan Lee on the phone, pronto! :-D

Pat




  #19  
Old October 19th 07, 09:17 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,sci.space.shuttle,sci.space.station
Pat Flannery
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,465
Default Keith Cowing Thinks NASA Will Grow Plants on the Moon



Alain Fournier wrote:

I think I agree. But I'm wondering, you don't need the plant to thrive
or grow in those two weeks, just survive. I wouldn't be surprised if
5 minutes of intense light every other day would be enough for many
plants. Possibly keeping the place sufficiently warm for those two
weeks would be a bigger problem than light.


Intense lunar surface light unfiltered would probably fry it inside of
five minutes.
Looking at unfiltered sunlight in space will cause permanent blindness
in around ten minutes.
The only unfiltered window on the Shuttle is the one in the entry/exit
hatch, and they keep a cover over that so you don't burn your eyes out
while sitting on the toilet.
Plants need sunlight the way we need water, but I wouldn't suggest
downing around ten gallons of it at once so you get a couple weeks worth
in one sitting. :-)

Pat
  #20  
Old October 19th 07, 10:40 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,sci.space.shuttle,sci.space.station
Pat Flannery
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,465
Default Keith Cowing Thinks NASA Will Grow Plants on the Moon



Pat Flannery wrote:

The ratings have dropped severely as the years go on, and even that
rumored "Iran: WW III" spin-off series doesn't look like it's got the
boffo biz potential of WW II.


Already getting bad reviews pre-production:
http://www.mytelus.com/ncp_news/arti...icleID=2779962
"He didn't mean it! For God's sake, just because he said it, doesn't
mean he _meant_ it!" :-)
Assuming humanity actually survives this administration, I've got to
read a really big book about it, tracing its history week-by-week, with
photos of all the key screw-ups...it's going to run hundreds of pages,
easy.

Pat
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Keith Cowing Thinks NASA Will Grow Plants on the Moon kT Space Shuttle 24 October 22nd 07 09:10 PM
NASA To Study Plants To Help Astronauts Grow Food In Space [email protected] Space Shuttle 12 July 5th 06 01:04 PM
NASA To Study Plants To Help Astronauts Grow Food In Space [email protected] Astronomy Misc 12 July 5th 06 01:04 PM
NASA To Study Plants To Help Astronauts Grow Food In Space [email protected] News 0 June 28th 06 12:53 AM
Keith Cowing is pissed. It seems someone else criticized NASA. Eric Dahlstrom Space Shuttle 0 August 27th 03 03:11 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 SpaceBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.