A Space & astronomy forum. SpaceBanter.com

Go Back   Home » SpaceBanter.com forum » Space Science » Policy
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

NASA’s full Artemis plan revealed: 37 launches and a lunar outpost



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old May 20th 19, 05:56 PM posted to sci.space.policy
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 687
Default NASA’s full Artemis plan revealed: 37 launches and a lunar outpost

"In the nearly two months since Vice President Mike Pence directed NASA to return
to the Moon by 2024, space agency engineers have been working to put together a
plan that leverages existing technology, large projects nearing completion, and
commercial rockets to bring this about.

Last week, an updated plan that demonstrated a human landing in 2024, annual
sorties to the lunar surface thereafter, and the beginning of a Moon base by 2028,
began circulating within the agency. A graphic, shown below, provides information
about each of the major launches needed to construct a small Lunar Gateway, stage
elements of a lunar lander there, fly crews to the Moon and back, and conduct
refueling missions.

This decade-long plan, which entails 37 launches of private and NASA rockets, as
well as a mix of robotic and human landers, culminates with a "Lunar Surface Asset
Deployment" in 2028, likely the beginning of a surface outpost for long-duration
crew stays. Developed by the agency's senior human spaceflight manager, Bill
Gerstenmaier, this plan is everything Pence asked for—an urgent human return, a
Moon base, a mix of existing and new contractors."

See:

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019...lunar-outpost/
  #2  
Old May 20th 19, 09:50 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Fred J. McCall[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,018
Default NASA's full Artemis plan revealed: 37 launches and a lunar outpost

wrote on Mon, 20 May 2019 09:56:58 -0700 (PDT):

"In the nearly two months since Vice President Mike Pence directed NASA to return
to the Moon by 2024, space agency engineers have been working to put together a
plan that leverages existing technology, large projects nearing completion, and
commercial rockets to bring this about.

Last week, an updated plan that demonstrated a human landing in 2024, annual
sorties to the lunar surface thereafter, and the beginning of a Moon base by 2028,
began circulating within the agency. A graphic, shown below, provides information
about each of the major launches needed to construct a small Lunar Gateway, stage
elements of a lunar lander there, fly crews to the Moon and back, and conduct
refueling missions.

This decade-long plan, which entails 37 launches of private and NASA rockets, as
well as a mix of robotic and human landers, culminates with a "Lunar Surface Asset
Deployment" in 2028, likely the beginning of a surface outpost for long-duration
crew stays. Developed by the agency's senior human spaceflight manager, Bill
Gerstenmaier, this plan is everything Pence asked for—an urgent human return, a
Moon base, a mix of existing and new contractors."

See:

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019...lunar-outpost/


This 'plan' is DOA. Hell, I'm about as 'pro-space' as you can be and
*I* am against it. Take money from college grants, increase NASA's
budget by over 30%, give them unprecedented authority to 'reprogram'
money, and rely on a booster (SLS Block 1B) that has essentially had a
'stop work' put on it)? That's just not a realistic plan.

What does it cost insofar as budget increases if we kill SLS and
reprogram THAT money and build a plan without SLS?


--
"Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute."
-- Charles Pinckney
  #3  
Old May 22nd 19, 02:36 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Sylvia Else[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 87
Default NASA’s full Artemis plan revealed: 37 launches and a lunar outpost

On 21/05/2019 2:56 am, wrote:
"In the nearly two months since Vice President Mike Pence directed NASA to return
to the Moon by 2024, space agency engineers have been working to put together a
plan that leverages existing technology, large projects nearing completion, and
commercial rockets to bring this about.

Last week, an updated plan that demonstrated a human landing in 2024, annual
sorties to the lunar surface thereafter, and the beginning of a Moon base by 2028,
began circulating within the agency. A graphic, shown below, provides information
about each of the major launches needed to construct a small Lunar Gateway, stage
elements of a lunar lander there, fly crews to the Moon and back, and conduct
refueling missions.

This decade-long plan, which entails 37 launches of private and NASA rockets, as
well as a mix of robotic and human landers, culminates with a "Lunar Surface Asset
Deployment" in 2028, likely the beginning of a surface outpost for long-duration
crew stays. Developed by the agency's senior human spaceflight manager, Bill
Gerstenmaier, this plan is everything Pence asked for—an urgent human return, a
Moon base, a mix of existing and new contractors."

See:

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019...lunar-outpost/


Plans are easy. They've been told they need to get back to the moon
quickly, so they've produced a plan to do so.

Doesn't mean it will happen, or even that the people at NASA think it
will happen.

It's a good way of telling contractors to increase their prices though.

Sylvia.
  #4  
Old May 23rd 19, 12:18 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Jeff Findley[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,307
Default NASA?s full Artemis plan revealed: 37 launches and a lunar outpost

In article , lid
says...
See:

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019...lunar-outpost/


Plans are easy. They've been told they need to get back to the moon
quickly, so they've produced a plan to do so.

Doesn't mean it will happen, or even that the people at NASA think it
will happen.

It's a good way of telling contractors to increase their prices though.


Also doesn't mean Congress will fund any of this. They'll be suspicious
that the early funding requests are just the tip of the iceberg and that
huge increases will be looming in the years ahead. This has doomed
every single "plan" that NASA has had to go beyond LEO since the 1970s
to today.

Jeff

--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.
  #5  
Old May 23rd 19, 12:19 AM posted to sci.space.policy
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 75
Default NASA’s full Artemis plan revealed: 37 launches and a lunar outpost

I have a continuing suggestion. Put a ground robot station
on the Moon's surface below L2. The robots could be made
more fault tolerant there, while they construct ultra-light
solar sails. I am talking about multi-Kilometer sized sails.

At L2 there is a vertical climb from ground, no Moon circling.

I believe that robots with a ground construction base frame
would be able to recover from faults easier than free fall.
Free-fall sail oscillations would not exist also.
  #7  
Old May 23rd 19, 07:53 PM posted to sci.space.policy
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 75
Default NASA’s full Artemis plan revealed: 37 launches and a lunar outpost

There seems to be a lot of concern in the thread on
the landing vehicle. The original must have used an
inertial guidance system. But these days we have
work going on for GPS airliner landing systems.

It might be worth the effort to put a GPS constellation
around the moon. The question would then be to
use an automated monitoring system or make an earth
moon network connection.

The goal is to allow zero-zero airliner landings.
So why not moon landers.
  #8  
Old May 23rd 19, 11:28 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Jeff Findley[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,307
Default NASA?s full Artemis plan revealed: 37 launches and a lunar outpost

In article ,
says...

There seems to be a lot of concern in the thread on
the landing vehicle. The original must have used an
inertial guidance system. But these days we have
work going on for GPS airliner landing systems.

It might be worth the effort to put a GPS constellation
around the moon. The question would then be to
use an automated monitoring system or make an earth
moon network connection.

The goal is to allow zero-zero airliner landings.
So why not moon landers.


We'd have to be landing hundreds of craft on the moon in order to
justify GPS on the moon, IMHO. Besides, we had instrument landing
technology on aircraft long before GPS. We can apply similar techniques
today.

Since the moon has no weather, clouds, or even air to obscure the
surface, we can do precision landings based on imagery. For height
above the surface, radar and laser range-finders will suffice (both on
the landing craft and on the surface). For things like a lunar base,
you could put laser retro-reflectors around the landing pad to allow for
precise positional landings.

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.
  #9  
Old May 24th 19, 05:32 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Fred J. McCall[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,018
Default NASA's full Artemis plan revealed: 37 launches and a lunar outpost

wrote on Thu, 23 May 2019 11:53:23 -0700
(PDT):

There seems to be a lot of concern in the thread on
the landing vehicle. The original must have used an
inertial guidance system. But these days we have
work going on for GPS airliner landing systems.


The 'original' used a radar altimeter and eyeballs to land manually.
You bring up GPS airliner landing systems like that means something in
this discussion. It doesn't.


It might be worth the effort to put a GPS constellation
around the moon. The question would then be to
use an automated monitoring system or make an earth
moon network connection.


So your 'idea' is to build a GPS constellation around the Moon (yeah,
how many years is THAT going to take?) and then construct a bunch of
carefully surveyed landing sites with terminal instruments on the Moon
so that you can then land. Except you have to land to do that. Then
build and certify specialized 'Moon GPS receivers'.


The goal is to allow zero-zero airliner landings.
So why not moon landers.


You really don't have a clue about how GPS actually works, do you?


--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson
  #10  
Old May 25th 19, 02:27 PM posted to sci.space.policy
David Spain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,901
Default NASA’s full Artemis plan revealed: 37 launches and a lunar outpost

On 5/20/2019 12:56 PM, wrote:
Developed by the agency's senior human spaceflight manager, Bill
Gerstenmaier, this plan is everything Pence asked for—an urgent human return, a
Moon base, a mix of existing and new contractors."

See:

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019...lunar-outpost/


Given the current political climate in DC I'd say this plan is even more
still-born than was Constellation and President Bush's VSE a decade + 5
years ago.

I agree with VP Pence's sense of urgency but it is disingenuous at best
to think that the DC establishment and NASA in particular has the means
or skills today to drive this effort. Making SLS a key component of this
plan just exposes it as the fantasy it is.

I know this is harsh. Too bad. I feel sorry for the senior leadership at
NASA. Their hearts are in the right place, they are good people. They
just don't realize that their methodology belongs to a long lost past
that will not return.

We'd be better served if NASA acted like an investment bank and Congress
gave it the funds necessary to buy the desired end goal with as little
micro-management as possible. That has not been the established paradigm
and is not evident in this work of fiction either.

Dave
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NASA's new focus plan revealed Pat Flannery Policy 11 February 27th 10 05:32 PM
NASA's new focus plan revealed Jorge R. Frank History 0 February 27th 10 05:32 PM
Bush administration to adopt Artemis Society plan for moon mission... Dholmes Policy 1 January 13th 04 03:11 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 SpaceBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.