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Did The Chinese Violate Any Treaties?
On not making messes in space? My dim understanding is that this
remains unsettled in the Liability Convention, due to an inability to agree on a definition of the word "debris." Any space lawyers out there more up to date? I'd think that, at a minimum, if any of the bits strike someone's satellite, or ISS, that the Chinese could be held liable under the OST. If it could be proven that it resulted from this event, that is (probably a difficult thing to do). |
#2
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Did The Chinese Violate Any Treaties?
Rand Simberg wrote:
On not making messes in space? My dim understanding is that this remains unsettled in the Liability Convention, due to an inability to agree on a definition of the word "debris." Any space lawyers out there more up to date? I'd think that, at a minimum, if any of the bits strike someone's satellite, or ISS, that the Chinese could be held liable under the OST. If it could be proven that it resulted from this event, that is (probably a difficult thing to do). They wouldn't be any more liable than the U.S. for the two Delta stages that fragmented and created clouds of debris in LEO last year. Or Japan for its H-2A upper stage that blew up last year. Or Russia, which blew up a Kosmos satellite in LEO late last year. I don't see a treaty issue, unless it was China trying to get the U.S. to agree to negotiate a no-arms-in-space treaty with it and Russia as it has called for in the past. - Ed Kyle |
#3
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Did The Chinese Violate Any Treaties?
On 19 Jan 2007 12:14:14 -0800, in a place far, far away, "Ed Kyle"
made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: Rand Simberg wrote: On not making messes in space? My dim understanding is that this remains unsettled in the Liability Convention, due to an inability to agree on a definition of the word "debris." Any space lawyers out there more up to date? I'd think that, at a minimum, if any of the bits strike someone's satellite, or ISS, that the Chinese could be held liable under the OST. If it could be proven that it resulted from this event, that is (probably a difficult thing to do). They wouldn't be any more liable than the U.S. for the two Delta stages that fragmented and created clouds of debris in LEO last year. Or Japan for its H-2A upper stage that blew up last year. Or Russia, which blew up a Kosmos satellite in LEO late last year. It's interesting that there's no distinction made between accidents and a deliberate act. |
#4
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Did The Chinese Violate Any Treaties?
On 19 Jan 2007 12:14:14 -0800, in a place far, far away, "Ed Kyle"
made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: Rand Simberg wrote: On not making messes in space? My dim understanding is that this remains unsettled in the Liability Convention, due to an inability to agree on a definition of the word "debris." Any space lawyers out there more up to date? I'd think that, at a minimum, if any of the bits strike someone's satellite, or ISS, that the Chinese could be held liable under the OST. If it could be proven that it resulted from this event, that is (probably a difficult thing to do). They wouldn't be any more liable than the U.S. for the two Delta stages that fragmented and created clouds of debris in LEO last year. Or Japan for its H-2A upper stage that blew up last year. Or Russia, which blew up a Kosmos satellite in LEO late last year. Did any of those incidents result in damage to a third party? |
#5
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Did The Chinese Violate Any Treaties?
Rand Simberg wrote: On 19 Jan 2007 12:14:14 -0800, in a place far, far away, "Ed Kyle" made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: Rand Simberg wrote: On not making messes in space? My dim understanding is that this remains unsettled in the Liability Convention, due to an inability to agree on a definition of the word "debris." Any space lawyers out there more up to date? I'd think that, at a minimum, if any of the bits strike someone's satellite, or ISS, that the Chinese could be held liable under the OST. If it could be proven that it resulted from this event, that is (probably a difficult thing to do). They wouldn't be any more liable than the U.S. for the two Delta stages that fragmented and created clouds of debris in LEO last year. Or Japan for its H-2A upper stage that blew up last year. Or Russia, which blew up a Kosmos satellite in LEO late last year. It's interesting that there's no distinction made between accidents and a deliberate act. I think the liability would be the same either way. - Ed Kyle |
#6
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Did The Chinese Violate Any Treaties?
Rand Simberg wrote: On 19 Jan 2007 12:14:14 -0800, in a place far, far away, "Ed Kyle" made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: Rand Simberg wrote: On not making messes in space? My dim understanding is that this remains unsettled in the Liability Convention, due to an inability to agree on a definition of the word "debris." Any space lawyers out there more up to date? I'd think that, at a minimum, if any of the bits strike someone's satellite, or ISS, that the Chinese could be held liable under the OST. If it could be proven that it resulted from this event, that is (probably a difficult thing to do). They wouldn't be any more liable than the U.S. for the two Delta stages that fragmented and created clouds of debris in LEO last year. Or Japan for its H-2A upper stage that blew up last year. Or Russia, which blew up a Kosmos satellite in LEO late last year. Did any of those incidents result in damage to a third party? Not yet, but then neither has the broken up Chinese satellite. - Ed Kyle |
#7
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Did The Chinese Violate Any Treaties?
On 19 Jan 2007 13:35:31 -0800, in a place far, far away, "Ed Kyle"
made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: They wouldn't be any more liable than the U.S. for the two Delta stages that fragmented and created clouds of debris in LEO last year. Or Japan for its H-2A upper stage that blew up last year. Or Russia, which blew up a Kosmos satellite in LEO late last year. It's interesting that there's no distinction made between accidents and a deliberate act. I think the liability would be the same either way. Yes, but as I said, it's interesting. In a civil case, a deliberate act would carry a higher penalty, perhaps with punitive damages. |
#8
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Did The Chinese Violate Any Treaties?
On 19 Jan 2007 13:36:49 -0800, in a place far, far away, "Ed Kyle"
made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: Rand Simberg wrote: On 19 Jan 2007 12:14:14 -0800, in a place far, far away, "Ed Kyle" made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: Rand Simberg wrote: On not making messes in space? My dim understanding is that this remains unsettled in the Liability Convention, due to an inability to agree on a definition of the word "debris." Any space lawyers out there more up to date? I'd think that, at a minimum, if any of the bits strike someone's satellite, or ISS, that the Chinese could be held liable under the OST. If it could be proven that it resulted from this event, that is (probably a difficult thing to do). They wouldn't be any more liable than the U.S. for the two Delta stages that fragmented and created clouds of debris in LEO last year. Or Japan for its H-2A upper stage that blew up last year. Or Russia, which blew up a Kosmos satellite in LEO late last year. Did any of those incidents result in damage to a third party? Not yet, but then neither has the broken up Chinese satellite. That's why I wrote "if any of the bits strike someone's satellite, or ISS." We know that's not going to occur with any of the other cases you mentioned. It still may for this one. |
#9
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Did The Chinese Violate Any Treaties?
On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:39:39 -0600, Rand Simberg wrote
(in article ): On 19 Jan 2007 13:35:31 -0800, in a place far, far away, "Ed Kyle" made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: They wouldn't be any more liable than the U.S. for the two Delta stages that fragmented and created clouds of debris in LEO last year. Or Japan for its H-2A upper stage that blew up last year. Or Russia, which blew up a Kosmos satellite in LEO late last year. It's interesting that there's no distinction made between accidents and a deliberate act. I think the liability would be the same either way. Yes, but as I said, it's interesting. In a civil case, a deliberate act would carry a higher penalty, perhaps with punitive damages. Don't play lawyer, Rand. In civil cases, the factors to be considered in awarding punitive damages vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, and the intent of the actor is but one factor to consider. -- You can run on for a long time, Sooner or later, God'll cut you down. ~Johnny Cash |
#10
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Did The Chinese Violate Any Treaties?
On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:43:29 -0600, in a place far, far away, Herb
Schaltegger made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: It's interesting that there's no distinction made between accidents and a deliberate act. I think the liability would be the same either way. Yes, but as I said, it's interesting. In a civil case, a deliberate act would carry a higher penalty, perhaps with punitive damages. Don't play lawyer, Rand. In civil cases, the factors to be considered in awarding punitive damages vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, and the intent of the actor is but one factor to consider. rolling eyes OK, make "would," "could." Talk about "playing lawyer." Anyway, I thought I was in your killfile. |
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