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Neil Armstrong has Died



 
 
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  #12  
Old August 28th 12, 03:07 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history
Robert Clark
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Posts: 1,150
Default Neil Armstrong has Died

On Aug 25, 4:53*pm, Orval Fairbairn wrote:
I just got this from a friend:

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/...l-armstrong-di...
t-82/

Condolences to his family and friends.


Godspeed, Neil.

Bob Clark
  #13  
Old August 28th 12, 11:21 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history
Doug Freyburger
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Posts: 222
Default Neil Armstrong has Died

Hg wrote:

Nothing can top being the first man to walk on the Moon - so quitting
being an astronaut would be the first thing I would have done as well.
Neil knew spaceflight is dangerous. I remember him saying he thought
the Eagle landing had more chance of crashing than landing safely.
So, why take the risk on lesser missions?


Several other space walking astronauts stayed in the program and ended
up going up on the shuttle. For a lot of astrnauts once you have the
space bug, the space bug has you back. It's like Gagarin - He went out
in a blaze of glory on a training flight.

If you're doing it for the fame, sure. I don't think they let people
into the astronaut corps who they thought were doing it for the fame.
There would have been competition among the astronauts for the first
step but it was among people who were already astronauts who'd already
flown in space.

Stepping out of the spotlight... I'm not sure the reasons for that,


I think he expected he'd be okay with the fame but when it actually
happened he disliked it worse than Lindberg had. Some situations can be
imagined and mentally simulated before they happen. Some can't. When
your'e good at running such mental simulations, as all test pilots must
be, you'll figure you can pull it off in other fields. But when he was
actually a celebrity he clearly didn't like it. So he stayed private.
He earned it as far as I'm concerned. He didn't step on the Moon by
winning a lottery. He earned it the hard way.

Look at how Buzz has done. He's (or was) a jet setting celebrity doing
all sorts of beneficial tasks. The world's a better place for how Buzz
uses (used) the celebrity he ended up enjoying.

though he did return to the spotlight whenever he was needed, being
part of the investigation panels for Apollo 13 and Challenger, for
example.


Exactly. When his celebrity could make a large difference in the space
program, he used it that way very deliberately for what he thought was
the good of the program.
  #14  
Old August 29th 12, 04:04 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history
hg
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Posts: 60
Default Neil Armstrong has Died

On 29/08/2012 03:21, Doug Freyburger wrote:
Hg wrote:

Nothing can top being the first man to walk on the Moon - so quitting
being an astronaut would be the first thing I would have done as well.
Neil knew spaceflight is dangerous. I remember him saying he thought
the Eagle landing had more chance of crashing than landing safely.
So, why take the risk on lesser missions?


Several other space walking astronauts stayed in the program and ended
up going up on the shuttle. For a lot of astrnauts once you have the
space bug, the space bug has you back. It's like Gagarin - He went out
in a blaze of glory on a training flight.

If you're doing it for the fame, sure. I don't think they let people
into the astronaut corps who they thought were doing it for the fame.
There would have been competition among the astronauts for the first
step but it was among people who were already astronauts who'd already
flown in space.

Stepping out of the spotlight... I'm not sure the reasons for that,


I think he expected he'd be okay with the fame but when it actually
happened he disliked it worse than Lindberg had. Some situations can be
imagined and mentally simulated before they happen. Some can't. When
your'e good at running such mental simulations, as all test pilots must
be, you'll figure you can pull it off in other fields. But when he was
actually a celebrity he clearly didn't like it. So he stayed private.
He earned it as far as I'm concerned. He didn't step on the Moon by
winning a lottery. He earned it the hard way.

Look at how Buzz has done. He's (or was) a jet setting celebrity doing
all sorts of beneficial tasks. The world's a better place for how Buzz
uses (used) the celebrity he ended up enjoying.



I guess Armstrong thought he could benefit society by being a teacher
instead of going up in rockets all the time. I wonder how good of a
teacher he was? Anyway, he clearly enjoyed teaching so IMO if you
can do what you enjoy then you'll be happy.


though he did return to the spotlight whenever he was needed, being
part of the investigation panels for Apollo 13 and Challenger, for
example.


Exactly. When his celebrity could make a large difference in the space
program, he used it that way very deliberately for what he thought was
the good of the program.



--
T
  #15  
Old August 29th 12, 02:00 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history
Jeff Findley[_2_]
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Posts: 1,388
Default Neil Armstrong has Died

In article , says...

Hg wrote:
Stepping out of the spotlight... I'm not sure the reasons for that,


I think he expected he'd be okay with the fame but when it actually
happened he disliked it worse than Lindberg had. Some situations can be
imagined and mentally simulated before they happen. Some can't. When
your'e good at running such mental simulations, as all test pilots must
be, you'll figure you can pull it off in other fields. But when he was
actually a celebrity he clearly didn't like it. So he stayed private.
He earned it as far as I'm concerned. He didn't step on the Moon by
winning a lottery. He earned it the hard way.


He served his country well, he just didn't want to do it "in the
spotlight". He was always a very private man.

Look at how Buzz has done. He's (or was) a jet setting celebrity
doing all sorts of beneficial tasks. The world's a better place
for how Buzz uses (used) the celebrity he ended up enjoying.


Buzz has a personality which actively seeks out the spotlight, which is
about all I have to say about him in this thread.

though he did return to the spotlight whenever he was needed, being
part of the investigation panels for Apollo 13 and Challenger, for
example.


Exactly. When his celebrity could make a large difference in the space
program, he used it that way very deliberately for what he thought was
the good of the program.


I'd say that he used his experience as a test pilot, astronaut, and
engineer to serve his country in that capacity, despite the fact that it
put him temporarily back in the spotlight (something he did not desire).
I'd call that quite admirable.

Plus, it's not like he ever completely stopped contributing to society.
He was a professor at University of Cincinnati, served on both the
Apollo 13 and Challenger accident investigation boards, and served on
the boards of directors of several companies (Wikipedia says Marathon
Oil, Learjet, Cinergy (Cincinnati Gas & Electric Company), Taft
Broadcasting, United Airlines, Eaton Corporation, AIL Systems and
Thiokol).

If you look at what he accomplished before becoming an astronaut, his
life would still be quite impressive. He was an Eagle Scout, earned a
B.S. in Aerospace engineering from Purdue University, was a Navy pilot
who flew combat missions during the Korean War, and was a test pilot
flying historic vehicles including the X-1B and X-15. He was also
selected as one of six pilot-engineers who would have flown the X-20
Dyna-Soar, had it not been canceled. Despite the Dyna-Soar program
being canceled, he did fly the F5D Skylancer, NASA 802, simulating abort
procedures for Dyna-Soar.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer
  #17  
Old August 30th 12, 05:11 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history
Greg \(Strider\) Moore
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Posts: 790
Default Neil Armstrong has Died


"Jeff Findley" wrote in message
...

In article , says...

Hg wrote:
Stepping out of the spotlight... I'm not sure the reasons for that,


I think he expected he'd be okay with the fame but when it actually
happened he disliked it worse than Lindberg had. Some situations can be
imagined and mentally simulated before they happen. Some can't. When
your'e good at running such mental simulations, as all test pilots must
be, you'll figure you can pull it off in other fields. But when he was
actually a celebrity he clearly didn't like it. So he stayed private.
He earned it as far as I'm concerned. He didn't step on the Moon by
winning a lottery. He earned it the hard way.


He served his country well, he just didn't want to do it "in the
spotlight". He was always a very private man.

Look at how Buzz has done. He's (or was) a jet setting celebrity
doing all sorts of beneficial tasks. The world's a better place
for how Buzz uses (used) the celebrity he ended up enjoying.


Buzz has a personality which actively seeks out the spotlight, which is
about all I have to say about him in this thread.

though he did return to the spotlight whenever he was needed, being
part of the investigation panels for Apollo 13 and Challenger, for
example.


Exactly. When his celebrity could make a large difference in the space
program, he used it that way very deliberately for what he thought was
the good of the program.


I'd say that he used his experience as a test pilot, astronaut, and
engineer to serve his country in that capacity, despite the fact that it
put him temporarily back in the spotlight (something he did not desire).
I'd call that quite admirable.

Plus, it's not like he ever completely stopped contributing to society.
He was a professor at University of Cincinnati, served on both the
Apollo 13 and Challenger accident investigation boards, and served on
the boards of directors of several companies (Wikipedia says Marathon
Oil, Learjet, Cinergy (Cincinnati Gas & Electric Company), Taft
Broadcasting, United Airlines, Eaton Corporation, AIL Systems and
Thiokol).

If you look at what he accomplished before becoming an astronaut, his
life would still be quite impressive. He was an Eagle Scout, earned a
B.S. in Aerospace engineering from Purdue University, was a Navy pilot
who flew combat missions during the Korean War, and was a test pilot
flying historic vehicles including the X-1B and X-15. He was also
selected as one of six pilot-engineers who would have flown the X-20
Dyna-Soar, had it not been canceled. Despite the Dyna-Soar program
being canceled, he did fly the F5D Skylancer, NASA 802, simulating abort
procedures for Dyna-Soar.

Jeff


I think thread sums it up pretty well. It also touches upon a realization I
had somewhere between childhood and adulthood.

These men were test pilots and engineers. Yes, there were big egos and
adrenaline junkies. And I don't doubt every single one of them at some
point thought, "Holy ****, I'm walking on the freaking MOON!" (or "I'm
ORBITING ....")

But, when push comes to shove, they were doing a job. It was a LOT of work.
It wasn't just kick the tires, fire it up and fly off into wild blue sky.

There was 1000s of hours of prep work. And as much as they enjoyed their
job (and it's clear to me Neil enjoyed being a test pilot), it was a job.
If Neil had been told, "Ok, you're flying Apollo 10 and NOT landing on the
Moon" he would have done just as well.

I think you could have put anyone in Neil's boots, including Buzz, and they
would have done the job pretty much the same (though I do think Neil was
among the best of the Apollo era astronauts in many regards).

Yes, AFTERWARDS some may have reacted differently. Hell, they all did.
Buzz.... well Jeff said. I will add, he unfortunately for awhile did NOT
handle the fame well.

Alan Bean paints now.

Conrad rode motorcycles and flew the DC-X.

And for those that think if Neil had only been more vocal we'd be on Mars by
now, reality check. The Apollo program was already being cut back by the
time Apollo 11 landed and the Vietnam War was raging and other things were
eclipsing Apollo.

The only thing that would have gotten humans to Mars by now is if the
Soviets had tried to up the ante.



--
Greg D. Moore
http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net

  #18  
Old August 30th 12, 07:04 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history
Rick Jones
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Posts: 685
Default Neil Armstrong has Died

In sci.space.history "Greg \(Strider\) Moore" wrote:

But, when push comes to shove, they were doing a job. It was a LOT
of work. It wasn't just kick the tires, fire it up and fly off into
wild blue sky.


There was 1000s of hours of prep work. And as much as they enjoyed
their job (and it's clear to me Neil enjoyed being a test pilot), it
was a job. If Neil had been told, "Ok, you're flying Apollo 10 and
NOT landing on the Moon" he would have done just as well.


Was it really just a "job" for those guys? I've sometimes opined
there are several levels of employment:

Level 0: Unemployed
Level 1: The job you have but hate because you have to eat
Level 2: The career you enjoy, but you could see yourself doing something else
Level 3: The way of life for which you happen to be paid

and I have to wonder if they were more Level 3 types.

rick jones
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A: Top-posting.
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  #19  
Old August 30th 12, 08:27 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history
Greg \(Strider\) Moore
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Posts: 790
Default Neil Armstrong has Died


"Rick Jones" wrote in message ...

In sci.space.history "Greg \(Strider\) Moore"
wrote:

But, when push comes to shove, they were doing a job. It was a LOT
of work. It wasn't just kick the tires, fire it up and fly off into
wild blue sky.


There was 1000s of hours of prep work. And as much as they enjoyed
their job (and it's clear to me Neil enjoyed being a test pilot), it
was a job. If Neil had been told, "Ok, you're flying Apollo 10 and
NOT landing on the Moon" he would have done just as well.


Was it really just a "job" for those guys? I've sometimes opined
there are several levels of employment:

Level 0: Unemployed
Level 1: The job you have but hate because you have to eat
Level 2: The career you enjoy, but you could see yourself doing something
else
Level 3: The way of life for which you happen to be paid

and I have to wonder if they were more Level 3 types.


Oh, I definitely think it's more Level 3.

But, I guess it was more "He was a test-pilot cum astronaut who happened to
land on the Moon" rather than "a guy who landed on the Moon who happened to
be an astronaut".

I have no doubt most if not all the astronauts wanted to land on the Moon,
and ideally be first.

But I also think a lot of outsides can't understand why folks like Mike
Collins would give up being an astronaut and a shot at the Moon (which he
pretty assuredly had). I don't think Mike ever had any real regrets about
only orbiting.






rick jones


--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net

  #20  
Old August 30th 12, 11:32 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history
Doug Freyburger
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Posts: 222
Default Neil Armstrong has Died

Rick Jones wrote:
"Greg \(Strider\) Moore" wrote:

But, when push comes to shove, they were doing a job. It was a LOT
of work. It wasn't just kick the tires, fire it up and fly off into
wild blue sky.


There was 1000s of hours of prep work. And as much as they enjoyed
their job (and it's clear to me Neil enjoyed being a test pilot), it
was a job. If Neil had been told, "Ok, you're flying Apollo 10 and
NOT landing on the Moon" he would have done just as well.


Was it really just a "job" for those guys? I've sometimes opined
there are several levels of employment:

Level 0: Unemployed
Level 1: The job you have but hate because you have to eat
Level 2: The career you enjoy, but you could see yourself doing something else
Level 3: The way of life for which you happen to be paid

and I have to wonder if they were more Level 3 types.


I figure at least in the US space program nearly all astronauts were
well past level 3 on that scale. I've read the advice to people who
want to be astronauts and it's more obsession than merely profession.

I wanted to be an astronaut when I was a kid, like so many other kids.
I was well into applying for an academy when I realized that I was not
enough of a jock to make it into test pilot school after the academy
and then I started wearing glasses as a high school senior. That was a
definite wash for becoming an astronaut. So I turned my focus on
unmanned space and ended up starting my career doing ground link
software at JPL. I would have been around level 2.8 on that scale. A
vast distance from being enough to become an astronaut.

I do get why astronauts move on to other occupations. After 10+ years
at JPL I had enough of "been there, done that, happy I did" that I
didn't mind moving out into the commercial engineering and computing
world for the better pay. Some astronauts will ask themselves - Will I
ever get back into space if I stay an astronaut? Other astonauts will
ask themselves - Will I ever get a space mission better than the one I
just completed if I stay an astronaut? I get why several astronauts
moved into politics, others became engineers, professors and whatever.
There's deep satisfaction in having been there and done that even on
the level I did. But there comes a point when you ask yourself the
question of what's the next mission going to be. I love my 10 year pin
but I also love that my salary almost doubled the day I moved out into
commercial IT work.
 




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