Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.

In article ,
says...
New technologies will not make aluminum or plastic cheaper.

This is quite simply bull****. Aluminum used to be so damn expensive
that the tip of the Washington Monument is made of the stuff. Now it's
do damn cheap that beer cans and soda cans are made of it. Why?
Because the technology used to make it literally changed. But don't
take my word for it:

http://www.aluminum.org/aluminum-adv...story-aluminum

I'm not an expert on plastic prices, but it sure seems like kids these
days have a lot more, and bigger, damn cheap plastic toys than when I
grew up. Hell, even some storage sheds are made of the stuff today. I
sure don't remember any plastic storage sheds when I was a kid.

Printing speed is limited by basic physics.

The speed of any casting, injection, machining, and etc. method is too
so I don't see your point. Besides, these things are computer
controlled, so you can start printing and come back when the thing is
done. It's not like you have to babysit the thing 24/7.

Most people can not be bothered to make their own bread or biscuits on
equipment they already own.

Baking bread or making biscuits from scratch is a time consuming, labor
intensive, p.i.t.a. I don't think downloading a file from the Internet
and hitting "print" on the 3D printer is as difficult, but I guess
that's my opinion.

3D printers for home use are already less than $200; how many people do
you know that have one?

As with product you can buy, the $200 models aren't that great. But the
technology is improving every year so that better machines are becoming
more affordable. That's the trend. Just like every other technology
which goes from its infancy to maturity. Looking at the trends in the
industry (e.g. aerospace, which is what I follow) 3D printing still has
not reached its full potential, IMHO.

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.

In sci.physics Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,
says...
New technologies will not make aluminum or plastic cheaper.

This is quite simply bull****. Aluminum used to be so damn expensive
that the tip of the Washington Monument is made of the stuff. Now it's
do damn cheap that beer cans and soda cans are made of it. Why?
Because the technology used to make it literally changed. But don't
take my word for it:

http://www.aluminum.org/aluminum-adv...story-aluminum

Yes, it changed about a hundred years ago and has not change significantly
since then.

The name for this phenomena is "mature technology".

I'm not an expert on plastic prices, but it sure seems like kids these
days have a lot more, and bigger, damn cheap plastic toys than when I
grew up. Hell, even some storage sheds are made of the stuff today. I
sure don't remember any plastic storage sheds when I was a kid.

Again, mature technology.

Printing speed is limited by basic physics.

The speed of any casting, injection, machining, and etc. method is too
so I don't see your point. Besides, these things are computer
controlled, so you can start printing and come back when the thing is
done. It's not like you have to babysit the thing 24/7.

The point is 3D printing is slow and basic physics says there is not
much that can be done to speed it up significantly.

Yep, if it is a hobby, it doesn't really matter if the whole print job
turns to **** in the middle of the process.

Most people can not be bothered to make their own bread or biscuits on
equipment they already own.

Baking bread or making biscuits from scratch is a time consuming, labor
intensive, p.i.t.a. I don't think downloading a file from the Internet
and hitting "print" on the 3D printer is as difficult, but I guess
that's my opinion.

Yep, hobby printing some plastic trinket is about the same level of
difficulty and it is obvious you have never done any baking.

3D printers for home use are already less than $200; how many people do
you know that have one?

As with product you can buy, the $200 models aren't that great. But the
technology is improving every year so that better machines are becoming
more affordable. That's the trend. Just like every other technology
which goes from its infancy to maturity. Looking at the trends in the
industry (e.g. aerospace, which is what I follow) 3D printing still has
not reached its full potential, IMHO.

3D printing is over 30 years old and getting close to being a mature
technology for anything that would ever be used at home.


--
Jim Pennino

On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 23:49:22 -0000, wrote:

In sci.physics wrote:
On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 05:03:36 -0000, wrote:

In sci.physics wrote:
On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 02:11:27 -0000, wrote:

In sci.physics wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jul 2017 17:45:42 -0000, wrote:

In sci.physics Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,
says...


I can see a few, very few, people printing junk jewelry, mostly teenage
girls.

Perhaps, but have you been to a craft store in the last 5 years?
They've been selling commercial 2d robotic cutters for many years that
are about the size of an ink-jet printer. The stupid thing shows
absolutely no sign of stopping even though the "cartridges" which
contain the cutting patterns are DRM protected and *very* expensive.
They are mostly used by people who like to do scrap books, but others
use them for making their own greeting cards and etc.

In those same craft stores is a large jewelery making section. Those
"memory bracelets" people make are a hot thing because "every item on it
represents a memory". In other words, these things are already highly
customized.

So, I wouldn't discount the notion that the crafts stores might start
selling very small 3d metal printers for making little dangling things
for jewelery (memory bracelets, necklace charms, and etc.) since this
would drop right into the market-space. They would only need to print
at most 3" x 3" x 3" to cover 99% of the jewelery market.

That same metal printer would sell "big league" at game stores where
custom cast characters for board games are already a huge market. In
other words Dungeons and Dragons, Warhammer 40k, and etc. Even if an
individual player wouldn't want one, every damn game store on the planet
would want at least a couple.

Jeff

By those standards black powder firearms will take over the firearms world.

I'm not saying there is not and will not be a bunch of niche users of
3D printing.

What I am saying is that 3D printing is not going to be the next industrial
revolution.

Personal 3D printing won't be the next industrial revolution. 3D
printing is already revolutionizing engineering.

Nonsense.

3D printing is simply making some prototypes easiery to make.

Just as PCs made prototypes *faster* and easier to design. Rather
revolutionary. Really.

Actually real engineering companies were using CAD software well before
there was such a thing as a PC. Really.

If you define "real engineering companies" as those who could afford
mainframes, sure. Everyone else was using rubylith. Even the IC
guys.

Ever heard of the PDP-8 or the HP CAD workstations that were common well
before the PC?

So no one really used Rubylith? IOW, nonsense.

CAD software has to a certain extent revolutionized engineering, but that
is very old news.

And 3D printing takes it to the next level.

That and N/C controlled mills and lathes.

In exactly that same setting, sure. *NOT* in everyone's home.

3D printers go for less than $200; I see no rush by consumers to buy them.

Exactly my point.

On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 23:53:00 -0000, wrote:

In sci.physics wrote:
On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 05:07:44 -0000, wrote:

In sci.physics wrote:
On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 02:18:43 -0000, wrote:

In sci.physics wrote:
On Thu, 13 Jul 2017 17:37:59 -0000, wrote:

In sci.physics "Greg \(Strider\) Moore" wrote:
"David Mitchell" wrote in message
o.uk...

wrote:
In sci.physics David Mitchell wrote:
wrote:

OK, what "stuff" would people be making at home?

Jewellry, utilities, tools, gadgets.

Could you be any more vague?

Yes. Yes I could.

Things. People will make things. All of the things.

I suspect 3D printing at home will be as successful as the personal
computer. I mean everyone knows they're useless at home and we'll only need
a few major mainframes.

Personal computer use in the home is dropping with increased use of smart
phones for those important tasks such as posting on twitter and facebook.

Banking and Amazon, too. Though that isn't to say that there isn't
anything beyond the 3D printer.

Like what, a 4D printer?

Of course the ultimate would be a genuine Star Trek replicator:

"Computer a 1968 Gibson Les Paul Custom and a cup of Earl Grey, hot."

Which reminds me, I need to tell my friends who own 3D printers and printing
parts to fix things at homes, tools, and tool holders and all manner of
things that I never would have thought of myself that they're wrong and no
one will effectively use a 3D printer at home.

How many people do you know that own 3D printers?

I know of none but we have several at work. One of my cow-orkers was
going to buy one and use it as a side business but he figured out that
it made no business sense.

Could that be because custom machine shops have real industrial grade
3D printers?

So you think that after everyone has a 3D printer, the world will end?
Are you some sort of 3D Rastafarian, or something?

I think the likelyhood of everyone having a 3D printer is quite remote.

But that's the point of this thread.

That was one of my points.

The post that started all this was claiming people would be printing
everything at home including cars; utter nonsense.

You seem to think I'm disagreeing with you.

But let me put it another way.... If 3D printers are the "next
thing", are you saying that there can't be any "next, next thing"? The
world ends after "next"?

3D printers are over 30 years old.

"The world ends" is babble.

Let me make this simple for the simple. If 3D printers are "the next
thing". Why is there not another "thing" beyond "the next thing"? End
of the world?

In sci.physics wrote:
On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 23:49:22 -0000, wrote:

In sci.physics wrote:
On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 05:03:36 -0000, wrote:

In sci.physics wrote:
On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 02:11:27 -0000, wrote:

In sci.physics wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jul 2017 17:45:42 -0000, wrote:

In sci.physics Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,
says...


I can see a few, very few, people printing junk jewelry, mostly teenage
girls.

Perhaps, but have you been to a craft store in the last 5 years?
They've been selling commercial 2d robotic cutters for many years that
are about the size of an ink-jet printer. The stupid thing shows
absolutely no sign of stopping even though the "cartridges" which
contain the cutting patterns are DRM protected and *very* expensive.
They are mostly used by people who like to do scrap books, but others
use them for making their own greeting cards and etc.

In those same craft stores is a large jewelery making section. Those
"memory bracelets" people make are a hot thing because "every item on it
represents a memory". In other words, these things are already highly
customized.

So, I wouldn't discount the notion that the crafts stores might start
selling very small 3d metal printers for making little dangling things
for jewelery (memory bracelets, necklace charms, and etc.) since this
would drop right into the market-space. They would only need to print
at most 3" x 3" x 3" to cover 99% of the jewelery market.

That same metal printer would sell "big league" at game stores where
custom cast characters for board games are already a huge market. In
other words Dungeons and Dragons, Warhammer 40k, and etc. Even if an
individual player wouldn't want one, every damn game store on the planet
would want at least a couple.

Jeff

By those standards black powder firearms will take over the firearms world.

I'm not saying there is not and will not be a bunch of niche users of
3D printing.

What I am saying is that 3D printing is not going to be the next industrial
revolution.

Personal 3D printing won't be the next industrial revolution. 3D
printing is already revolutionizing engineering.

Nonsense.

3D printing is simply making some prototypes easiery to make.

Just as PCs made prototypes *faster* and easier to design. Rather
revolutionary. Really.

Actually real engineering companies were using CAD software well before
there was such a thing as a PC. Really.

If you define "real engineering companies" as those who could afford
mainframes, sure. Everyone else was using rubylith. Even the IC
guys.

Ever heard of the PDP-8 or the HP CAD workstations that were common well
before the PC?

So no one really used Rubylith? IOW, nonsense.

Not what I said.


--
Jim Pennino

In sci.physics wrote:
On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 23:53:00 -0000, wrote:

In sci.physics wrote:
On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 05:07:44 -0000, wrote:

In sci.physics wrote:
On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 02:18:43 -0000, wrote:

In sci.physics wrote:
On Thu, 13 Jul 2017 17:37:59 -0000, wrote:

In sci.physics "Greg \(Strider\) Moore" wrote:
"David Mitchell" wrote in message
o.uk...

wrote:
In sci.physics David Mitchell wrote:
wrote:

OK, what "stuff" would people be making at home?

Jewellry, utilities, tools, gadgets.

Could you be any more vague?

Yes. Yes I could.

Things. People will make things. All of the things.

I suspect 3D printing at home will be as successful as the personal
computer. I mean everyone knows they're useless at home and we'll only need
a few major mainframes.

Personal computer use in the home is dropping with increased use of smart
phones for those important tasks such as posting on twitter and facebook.

Banking and Amazon, too. Though that isn't to say that there isn't
anything beyond the 3D printer.

Like what, a 4D printer?

Of course the ultimate would be a genuine Star Trek replicator:

"Computer a 1968 Gibson Les Paul Custom and a cup of Earl Grey, hot."

Which reminds me, I need to tell my friends who own 3D printers and printing
parts to fix things at homes, tools, and tool holders and all manner of
things that I never would have thought of myself that they're wrong and no
one will effectively use a 3D printer at home.

How many people do you know that own 3D printers?

I know of none but we have several at work. One of my cow-orkers was
going to buy one and use it as a side business but he figured out that
it made no business sense.

Could that be because custom machine shops have real industrial grade
3D printers?

So you think that after everyone has a 3D printer, the world will end?
Are you some sort of 3D Rastafarian, or something?

I think the likelyhood of everyone having a 3D printer is quite remote.

But that's the point of this thread.

That was one of my points.

The post that started all this was claiming people would be printing
everything at home including cars; utter nonsense.

You seem to think I'm disagreeing with you.

That the post that started all this was claiming people would be printing
everything at home including cars?

I don't see you saying anything about the post that started all this.

But let me put it another way.... If 3D printers are the "next
thing", are you saying that there can't be any "next, next thing"? The
world ends after "next"?

3D printers are over 30 years old.

"The world ends" is babble.

Let me make this simple for the simple. If 3D printers are "the next
thing". Why is there not another "thing" beyond "the next thing"? End
of the world?

3D printers are an old thing.

Are you saying we will have Star Trek replicators?


--
Jim Pennino

In sci.physics JF Mezei wrote:
On 2017-07-14 22:14, wrote:

http://www.aluminum.org/aluminum-adv...story-aluminum

Yes, it changed about a hundred years ago and has not change significantly
since then.

Actually, it has changed quite a bit. Different alloys, and something
called Glare which sandwiched aluminium/composites which yields
competitive weight/strength ratio to pure composites.

Glare is one of the things that made the Airbus A380 possible for instance.

Glare is 30 years old and has nothing to do with the production of aluminum
metal or 3D printing.

Aluminum alloys were first standardised in the 1930's and haven't changed much
since the 1950's


--
Jim Pennino

wrote:
In sci.physics David Mitchell wrote:
wrote:
In sci.physics David Mitchell wrote:
wrote:
In sci.physics David Mitchell wrote:
wrote:
In sci.physics David Mitchell wrote:
wrote:

OK, what "stuff" would people be making at home?

Jewellry, utilities, tools, gadgets.

Could you be any more vague?

Yes. Yes I could.

Things. People will make things. All of the things.

Great, yet another techno nerd weenie who spends way too much time watching
Star Trek reruns.

Bless. It's almost as though you imagine anyone give even the tinest of ****s
what you think.

It's almost as though you imagine I think puerile techno nerds represent
the average person.

I think you need to find a better insult - "techno nerd" is a bit tautologous -
and I've never made any particular claim to represent anyone.

How about pie-in-the-sky dreamer?

Like I've said before, most people can't be bothered to make things as
trivial as bread and biscuits.

Well, lots of people *do* make bread and biscuits; and a series about baking was
one of the most popular UK programs for some time.

As I keep, apparently, having to explain - I am talking about *mature*
fabrication technology - something capable of working with multiple materials,
and able to fabricate something at the push of a button more quickly than
driving to buy it, and more cheaply.

wrote:
In sci.physics Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,
says...
New technologies will not make aluminum or plastic cheaper.

This is quite simply bull****. Aluminum used to be so damn expensive
that the tip of the Washington Monument is made of the stuff. Now it's
do damn cheap that beer cans and soda cans are made of it. Why?
Because the technology used to make it literally changed. But don't
take my word for it:

http://www.aluminum.org/aluminum-adv...story-aluminum

Yes, it changed about a hundred years ago and has not change significantly
since then.

The name for this phenomena is "mature technology".

I'm not an expert on plastic prices, but it sure seems like kids these
days have a lot more, and bigger, damn cheap plastic toys than when I
grew up. Hell, even some storage sheds are made of the stuff today. I
sure don't remember any plastic storage sheds when I was a kid.

Again, mature technology.

Printing speed is limited by basic physics.

The speed of any casting, injection, machining, and etc. method is too
so I don't see your point. Besides, these things are computer
controlled, so you can start printing and come back when the thing is
done. It's not like you have to babysit the thing 24/7.

The point is 3D printing is slow and basic physics says there is not
much that can be done to speed it up significantly.

That's not true. Some printing methods are already significantly faster than
others. It's possible to scale up 3D printing merely by running multiple print
heads in parallel.

No one does this yet, AFAIK, because it's expensive; but the whole poin t of
technology is that it gets better, faster, and cheaper with time.

If you're still going to claim that "basic physics" will never allow a
reasonable speed, you're going to have to be a lot more specific, if you want to
remain credible.

Yep, if it is a hobby, it doesn't really matter if the whole print job
turns to **** in the middle of the process.

Which will happen less and less. You can also compare it to current home
printing technology - yes, paper jams and other problems do occur; but that
doesn't stop millions of people having printers.


Most people can not be bothered to make their own bread or biscuits on
equipment they already own.

Baking bread or making biscuits from scratch is a time consuming, labor
intensive, p.i.t.a. I don't think downloading a file from the Internet
and hitting "print" on the 3D printer is as difficult, but I guess
that's my opinion.

Yep, hobby printing some plastic trinket is about the same level of
difficulty and it is obvious you have never done any baking.

I have, and it's a lot more than pressing a button, unless you use a breadmaker;
which I do, kind of proving my point.

3D printers for home use are already less than $200; how many people do
you know that have one?

As with product you can buy, the $200 models aren't that great. But the
technology is improving every year so that better machines are becoming
more affordable. That's the trend. Just like every other technology
which goes from its infancy to maturity. Looking at the trends in the
industry (e.g. aerospace, which is what I follow) 3D printing still has
not reached its full potential, IMHO.

3D printing is over 30 years old and getting close to being a mature
technology for anything that would ever be used at home.

Aren't you agreeing with us now?

3D-printing is, IMO, about where ordinary printing was a couple of decades ago,
black-and-white, expensive, not that fast.

Compare it to printing now, full-colour, a lot faster and cheaper.

wrote:


3D printers are an old thing.


Lots of things are around for a long time before they take hold and
mature.


Are you saying we will have Star Trek replicators?


Were you frightened by tribbles when you were very young?


--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson