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Texan Compares Global Warming to Intelligent Design
This is hilarious :
http://blogcritics.org/archives/2006/07/22/233219.php No, on second thought, it's just sad. America appears to be a lost cause. Texas - give it back to Mexico. http://cosmic.lifeform.org |
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Texan Compares Global Warming to Intelligent Design
Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
This is hilarious : http://blogcritics.org/archives/2006/07/22/233219.php No, on second thought, it's just sad. Yes, it is unfortunate. Even if the facts alleged were true - that the increase in human output of greenhouse gases is less than normal natural variations in things like solar output and volcanism in its effect on climate, it still doesn't require "faith" to notice that the results of human activity are the one thing that humans can control. If harmful climate changes are taking place, and human action is influencing things in a negative direction, it simply makes sense to modify human activity so as to create an influence of a more positive kind. Of course, the consequences to humans of such *modifications* to human activity also need to be considered, but since nuclear power has already been invented, the idea that halting fossil fuel use would *necessarily* make us all poorer is a myth. Of course, that any major change in energy sources *could* make a few people a lot richer at the expense of everyone else is not a myth, but the cure for that is intelligent political action, not risking possible climate change running its course. John Savard |
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Texan Compares Global Warming to Intelligent Design
Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
This is hilarious : http://blogcritics.org/archives/2006/07/22/233219.php No, on second thought, it's just sad. David Nalle is a member of one of those right-wing thinktanks (Middle East Policy Council) and pretty-much swamps blogcritics as political editor to prevent any rational climate change debate. http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php...Policy_Council David Nalle - Consultant, U.S. Foreign Service Officer (ret.) As I understand it, he's an expert on Arabia but likes to think he knows it all. |
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Texan Compares Global Warming to Intelligent Design
On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 03:17:49 -0700, jsavard wrote:
If harmful climate changes are taking place, and human action is influencing things in a negative direction, it simply makes sense to modify human activity so as to create an influence of a more positive kind. Only if the cost of the climate change is greater than the cost of the modification of human activity. |
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Texan Compares Global Warming to Intelligent Design
Rand Simberg wrote in
news On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 03:17:49 -0700, jsavard wrote: If harmful climate changes are taking place, and human action is influencing things in a negative direction, it simply makes sense to modify human activity so as to create an influence of a more positive kind. Only if the cost of the climate change is greater than the cost of the modification of human activity. There is no cost. You just stop being bad. The cost of continuing bad behavior is murder of some of your fellow beings. Only a psychopath would say what you said, in essence "How much much will you pay me to not kill random victims of opportunity because of my oil addiction and self-inflicted environmental illiteracy?" |
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Texan Compares Global Warming to Intelligent Design
Exxon Stockholders Liable for Global Warming Damages wrote:
Rand Simberg wrote: On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 03:17:49 -0700, jsavard wrote: If harmful climate changes are taking place, and human action is influencing things in a negative direction, it simply makes sense to modify human activity so as to create an influence of a more positive kind. Only if the cost of the climate change is greater than the cost of the modification of human activity. There is no cost. You just stop being bad. That's pretty naive. Consider: there are more than six billion people on the planet right now. Supporting that many people is (to put it mildly) rather difficult without some level of industrialization. Get it? Without industrialization, *you're dooming a large section of the population to death*. The cost of continuing bad behavior is murder of some of your fellow beings. Again, that's a rather gross oversimplification. Industrialized technology makes many lives *better*, directly and indirectly. It also fuels research into areas that may lessen our dependence on fuels that pollute, or ways to get polluting manufacture off-planet. One can debate whether or not we'll ever be able to actually *get* fuels that don't pollute or move polluting stuff off the planet ad infinitum, but if you remove the industry driven by polluting engines suddenly and immediately, you don't even have the *option*. Besides, it's not as simple as murder. Imagine that I came up with a medicine that would cure an epidemic, as long as the medicine was taken according to guidelines. Should I be held liable for murder if someone ignores the directions and warning labels and dies as a result? (An imperfect analogy, I know... but the point is that technology made possible through industrialization has *saved* many lives. It's not as simple as merely "convenient for some, deadly for others".) Only a psychopath would say what you said, in essence "How much much will you pay me to not kill random victims of opportunity because of my oil addiction and self-inflicted environmental illiteracy?" How much would you pay me for my medicine, given that what happens when you overdose is largely unknown (I have a weird compunction against trying it out on human beings)? |
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Texan Compares Global Warming to Intelligent Design
"addams013" wrote in
oups.com: Exxon Stockholders Liable for Global Warming Damages wrote: Rand Simberg wrote: On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 03:17:49 -0700, jsavard wrote: If harmful climate changes are taking place, and human action is influencing things in a negative direction, it simply makes sense to modify human activity so as to create an influence of a more positive kind. Only if the cost of the climate change is greater than the cost of the modification of human activity. There is no cost. You just stop being bad. That's pretty naive. Consider: there are more than six billion people on the planet right now. Supporting that many people is (to put it mildly) rather difficult without some level of industrialization. Get it? Without industrialization, *you're dooming a large section of the population to death*. I am about 1000 times smarter than you. Not only do I not need any lectures from an idiot playing with fire of Global Warming Holocaust, I have been exploring the soklutions since maybe before you were ever born, jackoff. CDROM National Hydrogen Energy Roadmap-- A National Hydrogen Vision 33162.pdf http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy03osti/33162.pdf CDROM Proceedings of the 2002 U.S. DOE Hydrogen and Fuel Cells Annual Program 32405.pdf http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy02osti/32405.pdf CD-ROM ZIP 47.8 MB High-Performance PV Project-- Exploring and Accelerating Ultimate Pathways 35267.pdf http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy04osti/35267.pdf CD-ROM ZIP 64 MB International Solar Concentrator Conference for the Generation of Electricity or Hydrogen 2004 35349.pdf http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy04osti/35349.pdf http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy04osti/35349CD.zip 35349-14.pdf, slide graphic is #6 out of 24. Solar America-- A Solar Energy Tour of the United States (CD-ROM ZIP 344.8 MB) 28494.pdf http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy02osti/28494CD.zip Transportation Energy Data Book Edition24_Full_Doc.pdf 9525 KB http://www-cta.ornl.gov/data/tedb24/...4_Full_Doc.pdf Renewable Energy Atlas of the West atlas_final.pdf 50,775 KB http://www.energyatlas.org/PDFs/atlas_final.pdf Workshop_hydrogen_storage.pdf 8601 KB http://www-cep.cma.fr/Public/themes_..._plas_pub/one- day_workshop_hy Evaluation of Natural Gas Pipeline Materials for Hydrogen Service 2005 04_adams_nat_gas.pdf 10,211 KB http://www.eere.doe.gov/hydrogenandf...ms_nat_gas.pdf Basic Research Needs for the Hydrogen Economy 2003 hydrogen.pdf 7418 KB http://www.sc.doe/gov/bes/reports/files/NHE_rpt.pdf Center of Excellence for Chemical Hydrogen Storage-- LANL Tasks and Collaborations 116058.pdf 8081 KB http://www.ornl.gov/~webworks/cppr/y2001/rpt/116058.pdf DOE Carbon-based Materials Center of Excellence heben_st18_stp30.pdf 5265 KB http://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/...st18_stp30.pdf Fuel Cells Program Mission-Goals 2003 williams_fe_fuel_cells.pdf 7140 KB http://www.eere.doe.gov/hydrogenandf...fuel_cells.pdf Hydrogen Embrittlement Of Pipeline Steels-- Causes And Remediation 2005 09_sofronis_pipe_steels.pdf 6646 KB http://www.eere.doe.gov/hydrogenandf...ipe_steels.pdf Hydrogen permeability and Integrity of hydrogen transfer pipelines 2005 03_babu_transfer.pdf 5733 KB http://www.eere.doe.gov/hydrogenandf...u_transfer.pdf Hydrogen, Fuel Cells and Infrastructure Program 2005 02_parks_dtt.pdf 9416 KB http://www.eere.doe.gov/hydrogenandf..._parks_dtt.pdf NREL H2 Electrolysis - Utility Integration Workshop 2004 euiw_4_h2tp_nrel.pdf 7604 KB http://www.eere.doe.gov/hydrogenandf..._h2tp_nrel.pdf NREL H2 Electrolysis - Utility Integration Workshop 2004 euiw_3_doe_utility.pdf http://www.eere.energy.gov/hydrogena...oe_utility.pdf NREL H2 Electrolysis - Utility Integration Workshop 2004 euiw_9_h2_svc_stations.pdf http://www.eere.doe.gov/hydrogenandf...c_stations.pdf Overview of DOE Metal Hydride Center of Excellence (MHCoE) stp15_wang.pdf 5425 KB Pacific Northwest National Laboratory’s Hydrogen Analysis Capabilities 2004 13_pnnl_placet.pdf 6171 KB http://www.eere.energy.gov/hydrogena...nnl_placet.pdf Pennsylvania Regional 2005 11_wang_infra.pdf 9951 KB http://www.eere.doe.gov/hydrogenandf...wang_infra.pdf Small Wind Systems Tutorial wind_turbine_towers.pdf 8820 KB http://www.nrel.gov/villagepower/vpc...ine_towers.pdf Validation of An Integrated System for a Hydrogen-Fueled Power Park tv5_keenan.pdf 5277 KB http://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/...tv5_keenan.pdf http://h2-pv.us/H2/PDFs_Dloaded.html http://h2-pv.tripod.com/PV/solar_maps.html http://h2-pv.us/wind/Introduction_01.html http://h2-pv.us/wind/Big_01.html http://h2-pv.us/wind/strip_mining/strip_mining.html http://h2-pv.us/wind/towers_prior_ar...prior_art.html http://h2-pv.us/PV/DOE_Slides/Govt_PDFs_01.html http://h2-pv.us/H2/h2_safety_swain/swain_safety.html http://h2-pv.us/H2/H2_Basics.html http://h2-pv.us/H2/H2-PV_Breeders.html http://www.unep.fr/energy/publicatio..._Eng_final.pdf The Hydrogen Economy: a non-technical review ELECTROLYSIS Gov't Free Downloads PDFs: Advances in On-Site Electrolysis Hydrogen Generation Technology 2005 PEM vs Alkaline.pdf http://www.chewonkih2.org/docs/PEM%20vs%20Alkaline.pdf Alkaline, High Pressure Electrolysis 2005 pd26_ibrahim.pdf http://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/...26_ibrahim.pdf Alkaline, High-Pressure Electrolysis 2004 iif3_cohen.pdf http://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/...iif3_cohen.pdf Alkaline, High-Pressure Electrolysis 2005 iv_h_5_Cohen.pdf http://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/..._h_5_Cohen.pdf Alkaline, High-Pressure Electrolysis iif3_cohen.pdf http://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/...iif3_cohen.pdf Development Of A PEM Electrolyzer Enabling Seasonal Storage Of Renewable Energy 2005 CEC-500-2005- 085.PDF http://www.energy.ca.gov/2005publica...0-2005-085.PDF Development of New Polymer Electrolytes for Operation at High Temperature and Low Relative Humidity fc6_zawodzinski.pdf http://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/...awodzinski.pdf Effective Utilization of By-product Oxygen of Electrolysis Hydrogen Production 2003P_kato.pdf http://www.iiasa.ac.at/Research/ECS/...2003P_kato.pdf Electrodes for Polymer Electrolyte Membrane Operation on Hydrogen-Air ive12_uribe.pdf http://www.eere.energy.gov/hydrogena...ve12_uribe.pdf Electrolysis Development and Hydrogen Infrastructure 2004 euiw_a10_electricity_mtg.pdf http://www.eere.energy.gov/hydrogena...ricity_mtg.pdf Electrolysis Production of Hydrogen from Wind and Hydropower chalk_doe.ppt http://www.eere.energy.gov/hydrogena.../chalk_doe.ppt Electrolysis- Technology and Infrastructure Options 2004 euiw_background.pdf http://www.eere.energy.gov/hydrogena...background.pdf Electrolysis-Utility Integration Workshop 2004 euiw_agenda.pdf http://www.eere.energy.gov/hydrogena...uiw_agenda.pdf Electrolysis-Utility Integration Workshop 2004 PURPOSE euiw_02_intro_shawna.pdf http://www.eere.energy.gov/hydrogena...tro_shawna.pdf Electrolytic Hydrogen Production kauffman_electrolytic.pdf http://www.eere.energy.gov/hydrogena...ectrolytic.pdf Enabling Science for Advanced Ceramic Membrane Electrolyzers 2002 32405b21.pdf http://www.eere.energy.gov/hydrogena...s/32405b21.pdf HIGH EFFICIENCY STEAM ELECTROLYZER 2000 28890y.pdf http://www.eere.energy.gov/hydrogena...dfs/28890y.pdf High Temperature Solid Oxide Electrolyzer System 2005 pd24_herring.pdf http://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/...24_herring.pdf High-Efficiency Steam Electrolyzer 2003 iid2_vance.pdf http://www.eere.energy.gov/hydrogena...iid2_vance.pdf High-Temperature Polymer Electrolyte Membranes fc7_myers.pdf http://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/.../fc7_myers.pdf High-Temperature Polymer Membranes ivb3_myers.pdf http://www.eere.doe.gov/hydrogenandf...ivb3_myers.pdf High-Temperature Solid Oxide Electrolyser System 2003 iid3_herring.pdf http://www.eere.energy.gov/hydrogena...d3_herring.pdf High-Temperature Solid-Oxide Electrolyzer System 2004 iif1_herring.pdf http://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/...f1_herring.pdf Hydrogen Generation by Electrolysis 2004 euiw_3_doe_utility.pdf http://www.eere.energy.gov/hydrogena...oe_utility.pdf Hydrogen Generation from Electrolysis (New Project) 2004 iif6_porter.pdf http://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/...if6_porter.pdf Hydrogen Generation from Electrolysis 2004 hpd_16_cohen.pdf http://www.eere.energy.gov/hydrogena...d_16_cohen.pdf Hydrogen Generation from Electrolysis 2004 hpd_p22_maloney.pdf http://www.eere.energy.gov/hydrogena...22_maloney.pdf Hydrogen Generation From Electrolysis 2005 pdp_41_porter.pdf http://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/..._41_porter.pdf Hydrogen Matrix as of 12.1.05.pdf http://www.fuelcellstandards.com/Mis...%2012.1.05.pdf Hydrogen Production - Increasing the Efficiency of Water Electrolysis (New Project) 2004 iif4_ingersoll.pdf http://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/..._ingersoll.pdf Hydrogen Production - Increasing the Efficiency of Water Electrolysis 2005 pdp_39_pile.pdf http://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/...dp_39_pile.pdf Hydrogen Production & Delivery 2005 pd1_devlin.pdf http://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/...pd1_devlin.pdf Hydrogen production 2004 pigneri_ing.pdf Hydrogen Production Factsheet h2_prod_fsheet.pdf http://www.eere.energy.gov/hydrogena...rod_fsheet.pdf Life Cycle Assessment of Renewable Hydrogen Production via Wind - Electrolysis 35404.pdf http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy04osti/35404.pdf Low Cost Hydrogen Production Platform pdp_4_aaron.pdf http://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/...dp_4_aaron.pdf Low Cost, High Efficiency Reversible Fuel Cell (And Electrolyzer) Systems 30535aw.pdf http://www.eere.energy.gov/hydrogena...fs/30535aw.pdf Low Cost, High Efficiency, High Pressure Hydrogen Storage 2004 st_2_newell.pdf http://www.eere.energy.gov/hydrogena...t_2_newell.pdf Low Cost, High Efficiency, High Pressure Hydrogen Storage 2005 04_warner_quantum.pdf http://www.eere.doe.gov/hydrogenandf...er_quantum.pdf Low Cost, High Efficiency, High Pressure Hydrogen Storage st15_ko.pdf http://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/...05/st15_ko.pdf Low Cost, High Performance PPSA-based PEM Fuel Cell Membranes fcp_6_ma.pdf http://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/...5/fcp_6_ma.pdf Low Temperature Electrolysis 2004 maloney.pdf http://www.eere.energy.gov/solar/pdfs/maloney.pdf Low Temperature Electrolytic Hydrogen Production pdp_56_weidner.pdf http://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/...56_weidner.pdf Multi-Sourced Electricity for Electrolytic Hydrogen 2004 euiw_7_h2fc_wind_boulder.pdf http://www.eere.energy.gov/hydrogena...nd_boulder.pdf Novel, Low-Cost Solid Membrane Water Electrolyzer (Phase II Project) 2005 xi_9_kosek.pdf http://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/...xi_9_kosek.pdf NREL H2 Electrolysis - Utility Integration Workshop 2004 euiw_3_doe_utility.pdf http://www.eere.energy.gov/hydrogena...oe_utility.pdf NREL H2 Electrolysis - Utility Integration Workshop 2004 euiw_4_h2tp_nrel.pdf http://www.eere.doe.gov/hydrogenandf..._h2tp_nrel.pdf NREL H2 Electrolysis - Utility Integration Workshop 2004 euiw_9_h2_svc_stations.pdf http://www.eere.doe.gov/hydrogenandf...c_stations.pdf Renewable Electrolysis Integrated System Development and Testing iif2_elam.pdf http://www.eere.doe.gov/hydrogenandf.../iif2_elam.pdf Renewable Electrolysis Integrated System Development and Testing pd25_kroposki.pdf http://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/...5_kroposki.pdf Renewable Hydrogen From Wind In California 2005 UCD-ITS-RP-05-09.pdf http://www.its.ucdavis.edu/publicati...S-RP-05-09.pdf Renewable Hydrogen Fueling Station System 2004 tv_p9_boehm.pdf http://www.eere.energy.gov/hydrogena...v_p9_boehm.pdf Renewables for Sustainable Village Power rsvp_2000.pdf http://www.nrel.gov/villagepower/pdfs/rsvp_2000.pdf Research & Development for Off-Road Fuel Cell Applications (New Project) ivj9_steinbroner.pdf http://www.eere.doe.gov/hydrogenandf...teinbroner.pdf Research & Development for Off-Road Fuel Cell Applications fc43_simpkins.pdf http://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/...3_simpkins.pdf Reversible Planar Solid Oxide Fuel--Fed Fed Electrolysis Cell and Solid Oxide Fuel Cell for Electrolysis Cell and Solid Oxide Fuel Cell for Hydrogen and Electricity Production pd2_tao.pdf http://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/...05/pd2_tao.pdf Summary of Electrolytic Hydrogen Production 36734.pdf http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy04osti/36734.pdf Summary of Electrolytic Hydrogen Production 2004 35948.pdf http://www.eere.energy.gov/hydrogena...pdfs/35948.pdf System Design and New Materials for Reversible Solid-Oxide, High-Temperature Steam Electrolysis pdp_42_ruud.pdf http://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/...dp_42_ruud.pdf Technology Brief-- Analysis of Current-Day Commercial Electrolyzers 36705.pdf http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy04osti/36705.pdf wind_hydro_electrolysis_proc.pdf 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#9
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Texan Compares Global Warming to Intelligent Design
Exxon Stockholders Liable for Global Warming Damages wrote:
"addams013" wrote: Consider: there are more than six billion people on the planet right now. Supporting that many people is (to put it mildly) rather difficult without some level of industrialization. Get it? Without industrialization, *you're dooming a large section of the population to death*. I am about 1000 times smarter than you. Really? Neat. So why the **** are you dicking around with Usenet? You should be out there fighting crime or revolutionizing our power-generation capabilties or whatever it is you tin-plated dictators with delusions of godhood do. If you have something to say of such monumental importance, frankly, you're wasting your time here. The audience is small, and the problem enormous. Not only do I not need any lectures from an idiot playing with fire of Global Warming Holocaust, That wasn't a lecture. It was a rebuttal -- an attempt to explain why things cannot change overnight; we can't "just stop", unless you're willing to assume the cost in lives necessary to do so. Makes one wonder if you've ever attended a lecture or received any kind of higher education. Besides, I never said that global warming is not an issue, nor that we couldn't be doing more to alleviate it. I have been exploring the soklutions since maybe before you were ever born, jackoff. No need; I already have a willing, able, and energetic sex partner. But projection doesn't become you. I guess we've seen what happens when *you* become ejaculatory: CDROM National Hydrogen Energy Roadmap-- A National Hydrogen Vision 33162.pdf http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy03osti/33162.pdf snip Oooh, you can post links. Lots of them. How do any of these promise that replacement of polluting fuels can be "just stopped"? The nearest thing I can see is that replacement of polluting fuels can, at best, be gradually accomplished. Are you sure you're not confusing "about 1000 times smarter" with "about 1000 times the froth"? |
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Texan Compares Global Warming to Intelligent Design
addams013 wrote:
Exxon Stockholders Liable for Global Warming Damages wrote: "addams013" wrote: Consider: there are more than six billion people on the planet right now. Supporting that many people is (to put it mildly) rather difficult without some level of industrialization. Get it? Without industrialization, *you're dooming a large section of the population to death*. As far as I know, everyone is doomed to death. Will it be gradual, or catastrophic? Some of us would like it to be gradual, rather than ... Oh, forget it, you've got nothing. I am about 1000 times smarter than you. Really? Neat. So why the **** are you dicking around with Usenet? You should be out there fighting crime or revolutionizing our power-generation capabilties or whatever it is you tin-plated dictators with delusions of godhood do. If you have something to say of such monumental importance, frankly, you're wasting your time here. The audience is small, and the problem enormous. Which is why you are responding here with nothing of significance. Thanks! Your input is greatly appreciated. http://cosmic.lifeform.org |
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