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The Untold Story Of The World's Most Famous Photo



 
 
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  #21  
Old April 19th 17, 02:42 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
palsing[_2_]
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On Tuesday, April 18, 2017 at 1:33:36 PM UTC-7, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
On Tuesday, April 18, 2017 at 9:03:34 PM UTC+1, Mark Storkamp wrote:
In article ,
Gerald Kelleher wrote:

On Tuesday, April 18, 2017 at 6:34:22 PM UTC+1, palsing wrote:
On Tuesday, April 18, 2017 at 10:09:08 AM UTC-7, Gerald Kelleher wrote:

How many understand that when daily rotation is subtracted that the
entire surface turns once to the Sun over the course of an annual circuit
and does so unevenly in response to the variable orbital speed of the
Earth.

This is what astronomers do.

How many understand that this is the extra sidereal day? Astronomers have
known this for a very long time.

You have a short memory or perhaps you are just old, a discussion with me
requires that you can link the 24 hour system with the Lat/Long system, both
exist inside the calendar framework, to admit that the Earth rotates at a
rate of 15 degrees per hour, once in 24 hours or an Equatorial speed of
1037.5 miles per for a circumference of 24901 miles.


It would appear that after years of posting here, nobody is competent to
discuss this with you.



You are the one who said it, the rotation rate at the Equator and everywhere else outside the polar points is 15° per hour hence an Equatorial speed of 1037.5 miles per hour as determined by the 24 hour and Lat/Long system.

Bare minimum is a discussion on the primary fact linking the Earth's motion to geography,geometry and all the other effects of the most immediate day/night. Then and only then can a discussion commence on the polar day/night cycle and its rotational cause before moving on to a combination of the two rotations which account for the seasons and variations in the natural noon cycle.

Breath the Lat/Long system in and out or disappear like so many others have done before, willing to embrace intellectual oblivion than be creative and productive.


After all these years, Gerald, you are still the most unteachable person on the internet.
  #22  
Old April 19th 17, 07:44 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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On Tuesday, April 18, 2017 at 9:03:34 PM UTC+1, Mark Storkamp wrote:
In article ,
Gerald Kelleher wrote:

On Tuesday, April 18, 2017 at 6:34:22 PM UTC+1, palsing wrote:
On Tuesday, April 18, 2017 at 10:09:08 AM UTC-7, Gerald Kelleher wrote:

How many understand that when daily rotation is subtracted that the
entire surface turns once to the Sun over the course of an annual circuit
and does so unevenly in response to the variable orbital speed of the
Earth.

This is what astronomers do.

How many understand that this is the extra sidereal day? Astronomers have
known this for a very long time.


You have a short memory or perhaps you are just old, a discussion with me
requires that you can link the 24 hour system with the Lat/Long system, both
exist inside the calendar framework, to admit that the Earth rotates at a
rate of 15 degrees per hour, once in 24 hours or an Equatorial speed of
1037.5 miles per for a circumference of 24901 miles.


At what point will you realize it is futile to
enlighten anyone here and just go away to completely finish and document
your research for posterity?


What makes you believe that this is done for anyone here ?. The admiration is for the imaging and what stories they tell thereby removing the meaningless wordplay junkyard theorists have turned the celestial arena into. There is nothing new about this statement but what is new is fighting for higher reasoning rather than fighting against an imaginative bubble most are slaves to -

"These are the imaginings of incomplete- notions-philosophers who make space an absolute reality. Such notions are apt to be fudged up by devotees of pure mathematics, whose whole subject- matter is the playthings of imagination, but they are destroyed by higher reasoning" Leibniz

I don't address the professors,doctorates or whatever, I address the teacher in the classroom who can bring imaging in front of students and make them aware of what they are seeing using analogies,graphics and whatever they have at hand. The car and racetrack analogies provide a wonderful way to divided the perspective for the outer and inner planets as seen from a faster moving Earth for the outer planets and the slower moving Earth for the inner planets

https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/011...2000_tezel.gif

http://www.popastro.com/images/plane...ary%202012.jpg

Of course demonstrating this to people who can't use images nor bring them to the table or indeed can't affirm the Earth turns at a rate of 15° per hour apart from the North and South poles would be a waste of time but it is not about that.



  #23  
Old April 19th 17, 08:01 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris.B[_3_]
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On Wednesday, 19 April 2017 03:42:18 UTC+2, palsing wrote:

After all these years, Gerald, you are still the most unteachable person on the internet.


Let's stop beating about the bush: The troll is educationally challenged.
Years of personal tuition and support utterly wasted on the mind of a house brick.
There are none so dim as those who will not see.
The arrogance of a "Napoleon" with the intellect of an aggressive footman.
  #24  
Old April 19th 17, 10:03 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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On Monday, April 17, 2017 at 4:22:16 AM UTC-6, Gerald Kelleher wrote:

The objections at the time of Copernicus to a Sun centered system were well
founded as the geocentric framework for astronomical predictions was based on
the calendar framework.


Of course, we think differently.

We think that objecting to the Sun-centered system was never well-founded...
but, at the time of Copernicus, it is true that the geocentric view was not
thoroughly refuted... although there were no good *objections* to the
Sun-centered system, the Copernican system for its part didn't have decisive and
devastating objections to the geocentric one either.

And Newton was the one who changed that - Newton, by supplying a *physical*
cause for the motions of the Solar System, for which Kepler sought, made it
clear why the geocentric system was insupportable and absurd, and a Sun-centered
one was the only possibility that made sense.

But you don't approve of treating the Earth and the other planets as moving
objects, subject to the same physical laws as cannonballs or billiard balls.

John Savard
  #25  
Old April 19th 17, 10:08 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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On Tuesday, April 18, 2017 at 11:09:08 AM UTC-6, Gerald Kelleher wrote:

How many understand that when daily rotation is subtracted that the entire
surface turns once to the Sun over the course of an annual circuit and does so
unevenly in response to the variable orbital speed of the Earth.


Yes!!!

You've got it!

If you subtracted rotating once in every 24 hours from the motion of the Earth,
then one side of the Earth would always face to the Sun, just as one side of the
Moon always faces the Earth.

But if, instead, you subtract the "sidereal day" motion that involves the Earth
rotating once every 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 4 seconds, then the Earth faces
the stars the same way always... so that the Sun would rise and set on an annual
basis.

John Savard
  #26  
Old April 19th 17, 10:11 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 12:45:01 AM UTC-6, Gerald Kelleher wrote:

What makes you believe that this is done for anyone here ?


Well, not for anyone on this newsgroup, since clearly we're incapable of
understanding and appreciating your contribution.

However, presumably it is being done for... those of courage and pure heart who
can appreciate it. But you must find them. Perhaps this forum is too sterile a
place for them to come, and there might be somewhere else that they would be
found.

John Savard
  #27  
Old April 19th 17, 12:52 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Paul Schlyter[_3_]
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On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 02:03:53 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
wrote:
but, at the time of Copernicus, it is true that the geocentric view

was not
thoroughly refuted... although there were no good *objections* to

the
Sun-centered system, the Copernican system for its part didn't have

decisive and
devastating objections to the geocentric one either.


Why do the superior planets always appear to have a retrograde motion
around opposition to the Sun? And why can we never see Mercury or
Venus in opposition? The Copernican system give a natural explanation
for that, but in an Earth centered system there's really no reason
why it should be that way.


And Newton was the one who changed that - Newton, by supplying a

*physical*
cause for the motions of the Solar System, for which Kepler sought,

made it
clear why the geocentric system was insupportable and absurd, and a

Sun-centered
one was the only possibility that made sense.


Actually, already Galileo changed that, by his discovery of the
phases of Venus and of the Galilean satellites - the latter clearly
showed that not everything orbits the Earth. And the phases of Venus
are incompatible with Ptolemaios Earth-centered system.
  #28  
Old April 19th 17, 01:57 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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I am the first to use inner planetary retrogrades along with the phases and why the original heliocentric astronomers didn't manage to account for the observed motion of the inner planets seen from a slower moving Earth.

The proof of the Earth's orbital motion in a Sun centered system uses the annual transition of the background stars from an evening appearance (left of the Sun) to a dawn appearance (right of the Sun) due solely to the orbital motion of the Earth -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeQwYrfmvoQ&t=9s

The weak minded celestial sphere enthusiasts can't extract stellar circumpolar motion in order to appreciate the proof of the annual motion of the Earth, that it sets the Sun up as a central reference for the motions of the inner planets. For all intents and purposes, regardless of how valid and important these things are, it matters little when nobody is around to press for the positive perspectives astronomy is capable of. It will all change eventually but not without the effort to use imaging instead of the internal screaming of the theorists to recognize their convictions.

It is all good .
  #29  
Old April 19th 17, 02:43 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
[email protected]
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On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 1:58:04 PM UTC+1, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
I am the first to use inner planetary retrogrades along with the phases and why the original heliocentric astronomers didn't manage to account for the observed motion of the inner planets seen from a slower moving Earth.


Both the original heliocentric and the earlier geocentric astronomers and even astrologers knew more about inner retrogrades than you do today.

At least they knew when retrogrades are actually occurring, unlike your ignorant self:

Retrogrades of Venus take up its full motion from quadrature to quadrature when traveling in front of the Sun while it moves in the opposite direction against the stars when traveling behind the Sun.

  #30  
Old April 19th 17, 03:59 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 2:43:19 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 1:58:04 PM UTC+1, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
I am the first to use inner planetary retrogrades along with the phases and why the original heliocentric astronomers didn't manage to account for the observed motion of the inner planets seen from a slower moving Earth.


Both the original heliocentric and the earlier geocentric astronomers and even astrologers knew more about inner retrogrades than you do today.


You are the unfortunate who posted the motions of Venus without phases but with retrogrades so, like many others,you don't get a second shot at the title.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYYwNvjr7Lg

I have too many half-wits attaching themselves to insights which would otherwise never have been made were it not for this forum and the imaging/graphics supplied by others even if they were not dedicated to the overall narrative.

The only acceptable graphic of Venus plotted against the background stars with retrogrades is found in what is now an old graphic without phases -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdFrE7hWj0A

The fact of priority has no concern for me, retrogrades of Venus can only be explained with the phases and a Sun centered reference. It is not there to impress academic pretense but for those who can enjoy a narrative made possible by a moving Earth.



 




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