A Space & astronomy forum. SpaceBanter.com

Go Back   Home » SpaceBanter.com forum » Space Science » Policy
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #242  
Old July 16th 17, 08:21 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science,sci.electronics.design
Greg Goss
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 169
Default Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.

"Greg \(Strider\) Moore" wrote:

New technologies will not make aluminum or plastic cheaper.


So what? They don't need to be cheaper. People literally buy millions of
items made out of aluminum and plastic every day and throw them out, the
material is so cheap.


The amount of aluminum in a soda can has decreased dramatically over
time. I remember seeing an article on can engineering in SciAm twenty
or so years ago. It's probably halfed again since then.

Cars once had frames under the body. Now, carefully shaped bodies
serve the purpose that once required a frame.

New technologies can dramatically reduce the amount of aluminum or
plastic that you require to do something.

You can overdo it. My mother believed in bulk purchasing and in
having suitable treats on hand when the grandkids arrived. When
preparing the estate, we discovered a five foot stack of soda in one
of the closets. One flat (24 cans) of Costco "Simply" cola had
pinhole-ruptured almost all of the cans, but had leaked slowly enough
that nothing sprayed and nothing escaped the cardboard flat that the
cans were sitting on. The white carpet under the dark brown leaks was
untouched. All of the plastic two-litre bottles had lost their
pressurization - the CO2 having presumably leaked past the caps in the
time since purchase. (She was in various forms of care for about a
year before the end, and we held the house off the market for another
five months for price-cycle reasons. I don't know how long the soda
was there before she went into care.)

--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
  #243  
Old July 16th 17, 09:02 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science,sci.electronics.design
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 47
Default Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 06:40:16 +0100, David Mitchell
wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 06:36:41 +0100, David Mitchell
wrote:

wrote:
In sci.physics David Mitchell wrote:
wrote:
In sci.physics David Mitchell wrote:
wrote:
In sci.physics David Mitchell wrote:
wrote:
In sci.physics David Mitchell wrote:
wrote:

OK, what "stuff" would people be making at home?

Jewellry, utilities, tools, gadgets.

Could you be any more vague?

Yes. Yes I could.

Things. People will make things. All of the things.

Great, yet another techno nerd weenie who spends way too much time watching
Star Trek reruns.

Bless. It's almost as though you imagine anyone give even the tinest of ****s
what you think.

It's almost as though you imagine I think puerile techno nerds represent
the average person.

I think you need to find a better insult - "techno nerd" is a bit tautologous -
and I've never made any particular claim to represent anyone.

How about pie-in-the-sky dreamer?

Like I've said before, most people can't be bothered to make things as
trivial as bread and biscuits.

Well, lots of people *do* make bread and biscuits; and a series about baking was
one of the most popular UK programs for some time.


Watching is not making.


True; but search for "The Great British Off effect".

"In the six years it has been on the air, “The Great British Bake Off” has
fundamentally changed the way the British regard baking, dessert-eating and even
their own culture of sweets. The “Bake Off Effect,” as it is known, has
manifested in a resurgence in home baking, a noticeable increase in the quality
of baked goods sold all over the country, and a growing number of people
pursuing careers as professional pastry chefs."

"The Mary Berry effect: How the Great British Bake Off revived the Women's Institute

WI membership reached 211,000 last year, its highest level since the 1970s
22,600 new members joined last year and 144 institutes were created
Organisation's chairman said Great British Bakeoff 'inspired' more women to
take up home baking"

"A recent survey from Waitrose revealed that baking is more popular than ever,
with 19 per cent of people saying they now bake at least once a week and nearly
half admitted to baking more than they did five years ago."


Irrelevant. My wife watches a lot (way too much ;-) of cooking shows
and also does a lot of baking but not once has she ever made anything
that was on the TeeVee. She does make biscuits, on special occasions,
but not bread.


As I keep, apparently, having to explain - I am talking about *mature*
fabrication technology - something capable of working with multiple materials,
and able to fabricate something at the push of a button more quickly than
driving to buy it, and more cheaply.


Not going to happen.


It would be good if you could back that up, rather than simply asserting it.


There is no need. There is no efficiency of scale. It's too much
work to design things and get them ready (and then the retries). Few
will put up with the bull****. No, I don't think people will download
designs for plastic jewelry and make it. Well, maybe a few 6
year-olds.

We've noted that nearly all technology improves with time, as fabrication
technology has, and that prices always fall, and that as that of fabrication
technology has; and sales are increasing non-linearly, up to 400000 last year,
with projected sales of 1.2 million this year (search "3-D printer sales") -
which provides motication for their continued improvement and revenue to support it.

Irrelevant.
  #245  
Old July 16th 17, 09:15 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science,sci.electronics.design
Jeff Findley[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,307
Default Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.

In article ,
says...

In sci.physics Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,

says...
The point is that CAD on minicomputers was very minimal. It was the
domain of the mainframe. Rubylith was the tool of choice for the
electronics industry.


I've worked on CAE software that's tightly integrated with CAD my entire
professional life. Back in about 1988 our CAD/CAE software still ran on
mainframes (IBM, DEC, and etc.) but the transition to Unix workstations
was in its infancy. Back then, PCs were "toys" that quite simply
couldn't handle professional level CAD/CAE software.

In the early 1990s Unix Workstations dominated for running CAD/CAE
software. A good SGI "box" would run you about $20k in early 1990s
dollars (about $33k today).

Today, you can comfortably run CAD/CAE software (at least the CAE
pre/post) on a sub $2k PC running Windows OS. But many customers will
go quite a bit over $2k with things like solid state drives and 64 GB or
more of RAM coupled with the best professional graphics card money can
buy (no, they're not quite the same as consumer/gaming cards). Still,
the most "decked out" PC workstation today will still cost a fraction of
what a Unix workstation used to cost in the early 1990s.

So again, we see yet another example of improving technologies driving
down costs in a market.


Nope, what we see is yet another example of consumer demand driving down
manufacturing costs by encouraging high volume, automated, manufacturing.


Bull****. The technology in a PC today is quite different than that of
a PC made in 1988. Nothing in a PC from 1988 would even "plug into" a
PC bought today, except maybe the keyboard and mouse. And the PC today
is literally orders of magnitude faster.

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.
  #246  
Old July 16th 17, 09:26 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science,sci.electronics.design
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,346
Default Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.

In sci.physics Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,
says...

In sci.physics Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,

says...
The point is that CAD on minicomputers was very minimal. It was the
domain of the mainframe. Rubylith was the tool of choice for the
electronics industry.


I've worked on CAE software that's tightly integrated with CAD my entire
professional life. Back in about 1988 our CAD/CAE software still ran on
mainframes (IBM, DEC, and etc.) but the transition to Unix workstations
was in its infancy. Back then, PCs were "toys" that quite simply
couldn't handle professional level CAD/CAE software.

In the early 1990s Unix Workstations dominated for running CAD/CAE
software. A good SGI "box" would run you about $20k in early 1990s
dollars (about $33k today).

Today, you can comfortably run CAD/CAE software (at least the CAE
pre/post) on a sub $2k PC running Windows OS. But many customers will
go quite a bit over $2k with things like solid state drives and 64 GB or
more of RAM coupled with the best professional graphics card money can
buy (no, they're not quite the same as consumer/gaming cards). Still,
the most "decked out" PC workstation today will still cost a fraction of
what a Unix workstation used to cost in the early 1990s.

So again, we see yet another example of improving technologies driving
down costs in a market.


Nope, what we see is yet another example of consumer demand driving down
manufacturing costs by encouraging high volume, automated, manufacturing.


Bull****. The technology in a PC today is quite different than that of
a PC made in 1988. Nothing in a PC from 1988 would even "plug into" a
PC bought today, except maybe the keyboard and mouse. And the PC today
is literally orders of magnitude faster.

Jeff


So what?

Nothing from a 1988 Ford F150 would even "plug into" a Ford F150 bought today.

BTW, a current Ford F150 costs about the same (in adjusted dollars) as a
1988 Ford F150 and does not perform significantly differently.


--
Jim Pennino
  #247  
Old July 16th 17, 09:29 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science,sci.electronics.design
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,346
Default Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.

In sci.physics Greg Goss wrote:
wrote:

How much better, faster, and cheaper has the pencil become since it's
invention in the 16th century?


Pencils that don't need to be sharpened are only about a century old.
(Electronics company Sharp started that way.)


They are a different thing but they haven't changed much since invention
either.

When I was a kid, my mother had one that cost $18 and took a minute or
so to withdraw a new lead into its body. Other than lacking the
magnet (hers could be stuck onto stuff for convenient access), better
pencils are now about the price of six wooden pencils. I haven't
sharpened a pencil other than on an "emergency" basis for 45 years.

Pencils were a nickel when I was a kid and a dime now. Since I was a
kid, the value of that dime has decreased tenfold. So pencils are now
five times cheaper than in the sixties. I assume technology did it.
(Perhaps containerized TRANSPORT technology to bring us the product of
chinese semi-slaves.)


Mass production in huge quantities by automated traditional manufacturing
techniques and cheap shipping from China.


--
Jim Pennino
  #248  
Old July 16th 17, 10:27 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science,sci.electronics.design
Greg Goss
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 169
Default Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.

Jeff Findley wrote:

Bull****. The technology in a PC today is quite different than that of
a PC made in 1988. Nothing in a PC from 1988 would even "plug into" a
PC bought today, except maybe the keyboard and mouse. And the PC today
is literally orders of magnitude faster.


The original mice I first saw plugged into a special jack on a card
that plugged into the PC. I had mine on a combo card with video. The
technology to allow a mouse to run on the low power in a serial
connection came later. And serial connectors vanished around Y2K. I
don't know how the data signals in the PS2 mouse connectors compared
to the 9 pin serial connectors.

Keyboards plugged into a large DIN connection. This was gradually
replaced by the smaller PS2 connection, then again with USB
connections.

I don't know if any desktop computers still provide PS2 connectors. I
don't think so.

I'm still using my 1994 laser printer. It plugs into a
centronics-parallel to USB adapter. I guess similar adapters are
available for serial ports and PS2 connectors.

Hmmm, come to think of it, the Centronics port was designed for the
1988 TRS-80 computer. A printer from that era would probably plug
through my adapter into any modern Windows computer. And at least the
MX-80 and its clones are probably still driver-supported.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
  #250  
Old July 16th 17, 10:39 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science,sci.electronics.design
Jeff Findley[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,307
Default Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.

In article , says...

Jeff Findley wrote:

Bull****. The technology in a PC today is quite different than that of
a PC made in 1988. Nothing in a PC from 1988 would even "plug into" a
PC bought today, except maybe the keyboard and mouse. And the PC today
is literally orders of magnitude faster.


The original mice I first saw plugged into a special jack on a card
that plugged into the PC. I had mine on a combo card with video. The
technology to allow a mouse to run on the low power in a serial
connection came later. And serial connectors vanished around Y2K. I
don't know how the data signals in the PS2 mouse connectors compared
to the 9 pin serial connectors.

Keyboards plugged into a large DIN connection. This was gradually
replaced by the smaller PS2 connection, then again with USB
connections.

I don't know if any desktop computers still provide PS2 connectors. I
don't think so.


Some desktop computers I've seen recently still have the smaller PS2
connectors for a keyboard and mouse. All of our "professional" machines
at work have them. For example, the HP Z240 Desktop "tower" computer
has them. All you need to go from the old DIN keyboard connection to a
PS2 keyboard connector is a simple, non-active, adapter. Ought to cost
about $0.99 on eBay.

I'm still using my 1994 laser printer. It plugs into a
centronics-parallel to USB adapter. I guess similar adapters are
available for serial ports and PS2 connectors.


Not sure any active adapters do that, but some older mice would work
with either with a passive adapter. At any rate, you can buy USB to
serial port adapters. I have one. It works well.

Hmmm, come to think of it, the Centronics port was designed for the
1988 TRS-80 computer. A printer from that era would probably plug
through my adapter into any modern Windows computer. And at least the
MX-80 and its clones are probably still driver-supported.


Software drivers are tricky, but yes the USB adapter will allow the
electronics to communicate.

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The future of electric cars FredKartoffel Amateur Astronomy 103 June 21st 16 04:48 PM
Cars Only Need a 20 HP motor(electric) G=EMC^2TreBert Misc 3 March 6th 15 01:08 AM
3D Printed Rocket William Mook[_2_] Policy 8 January 17th 14 12:24 PM
better way of seeing noise before image is printed? Jason Albertson Amateur Astronomy 24 March 7th 07 06:46 AM
other planets that have lightning bolts-- do they have plate tectonics ?? do the experiment with electric motor and also Faradays first electric motor is this the Oersted experiment writ large on the size of continental plates a_plutonium Astronomy Misc 4 September 16th 06 01:13 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 SpaceBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.