Abandoning Orion for a Next Generation Shuttle?

On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 10:29:59 -0400, "Jeff Findley"
wrote:


"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
hdakotatelephone...
Greg D. Moore (Strider) wrote:

What if the aspects of the design that allow it to be recovered and
examined (such as wings and TPS in the case of the Shuttle) add more
fatal failure modes than exist in a expendable launch vehicle?

As opposed to the failure modes of a capsule? Say an untested parachute
and pyro system?

What if the gear doesn't come down on the Shuttle during landing approach?
That's the first time that gets used on the mission.

If one of the main landing gear doesn't come down, one wing tip will hit the
runway and the orbiter would spin out of control causing loss of orbiter and
crew. If the nose gear doesn't come down, I'm not so sure what would
happen.

And if none of the gear came down, belly land and hope for the best.
I would have thought it wasn't possible, but I also used to think you
couldn't land an airliner in a river...

take care,
Scott

"Scott Stevenson" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 10:29:59 -0400, "Jeff Findley"
wrote:


"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
thdakotatelephone...
Greg D. Moore (Strider) wrote:

What if the aspects of the design that allow it to be recovered and
examined (such as wings and TPS in the case of the Shuttle) add more
fatal failure modes than exist in a expendable launch vehicle?

As opposed to the failure modes of a capsule? Say an untested
parachute
and pyro system?

What if the gear doesn't come down on the Shuttle during landing
approach?
That's the first time that gets used on the mission.

If one of the main landing gear doesn't come down, one wing tip will hit
the
runway and the orbiter would spin out of control causing loss of orbiter
and
crew. If the nose gear doesn't come down, I'm not so sure what would
happen.

And if none of the gear came down, belly land and hope for the best.
I would have thought it wasn't possible, but I also used to think you
couldn't land an airliner in a river...

If none of the gear comes down, it's a bad day. Invariably one of the wing
tips will hit before the other and the tiles will grip the runway much more
than you'd think (much more friction than an your typical aluminum skin on
an aircraft), resulting in loss of orbiter and crew.

Water ditchings aren't considered survivable either. Any payload in the bay
will rip free of its mounts and crash into the crew cabin.

The shuttle isn't overbuilt enough to survive these sorts of things. If it
were, it would be too heavy.

Jeff
--
"Take heart amid the deepening gloom
that your dog is finally getting enough cheese" - Deteriorata - National
Lampoon

Jeff Findley wrote:

If none of the gear comes down, it's a bad day. Invariably one of the wing
tips will hit before the other

I don't know if that would be the case. The compressed air under it due
to ground effect at its high angle of attack on landing (all pure delta
aircraft suffer from this phenomena on landing) might make it flatten
out as far as any roll angle goes before it hits.
But once the rear of the wing-fuselage does hit, the nose is going to
come down very hard.

Pat