O'keefe says Zubrin's op-ed = 'wrong headed thinking...'

I grabbed this off the Mars Society Web Sight today. What got my
attention is that Sean O'Keefe said that it represented "wrong headed
thinking." Anybody know what he was referring to, the reuse of shuttle
or the idea of a 'simpler' capsule OSP?

Either way it seems to indicate that O'keefe is already discounting
the idea of a simpler OSP.

If anybody has the details of his conversation with Congress, please
post them.


-Tom Merkle

================================================== ====================

Sept. 10, 2003

In hearings today, members of congress cross-examined NASA
Administrator Sean O'Keefe as to what he thought of the Mars Society's
idea to converting the Shuttle to a heavy lift vehicle to open the way
to human exploration of the Moon and Mars. The plan, which also
involves shifting the human launch function from the Shuttle Orbiter
to a much simpler and safer capsule system that could be launched at
much lower cost aloft a medium lift launch vehicle, was explained in
an op-ed Mars Society president Robert Zubrin published in the Sept. 8
issue of the industry weekly Space News. Such a plan, Zubrin said,
would offer much greater capability and safety at much lower cost than
NASA's current proposal to spend $17 billion to develop a complex
mini-shuttle type Orbital Space Plane as its next major project.

At the hearings, Rep. Joe Barton (R-TX) entered the full text of the
Zubrin op-ed into the Congressional Record, and then asked NASA
Administrator Sean O'Keefe what he thought of it. Mr. O'Keefe
responded defending NASA's current app roach, saying that the ideas in
the op-ed represented "wrong headed thinking."

He may not have read the op-ed in querstion. But if he's run into Zubrin
in the past, it's probably just an automatic reaction to hearing the
name. Lots of people have the same reaction, and for the same reason...

--
Scott Lowther, Engineer

So Sean O'Keefe doesn't like Zubrin's name and thusly discounts his ideas?
Would he be more likely to listen if Zubrin changed his name?

So Sean says Zubrin's ideas are wrong headed, I guess he ought to know since he
is a much better Rocket Engineer than Robert Zubrin, isn't he, so Congress
should thrust him when he says Robert Zubrin is wrong headed.

Tom

TKalbfus wrote:

So Sean O'Keefe doesn't like Zubrin's name and thusly discounts his ideas?

Zoom! And it goes right over TKalbfus' head...

--
Scott Lowther, Engineer

"Any statement by Edward Wright that starts with 'You seem to think
that...' is wrong. Always. It's a law of Usenet, like Godwin's."
- Jorge R. Frank, 11 Nov 2002

(Tom Merkle) wrote in message . com...
I grabbed this off the Mars Society Web Sight today. What got my
attention is that Sean O'Keefe said that it represented "wrong headed
thinking." Anybody know what he was referring to, the reuse of shuttle
or the idea of a 'simpler' capsule OSP?

Either way it seems to indicate that O'keefe is already discounting
the idea of a simpler OSP.

If anybody has the details of his conversation with Congress, please
post them.


Could be:
1. The aim of going to Mars is wrong headed
2. The idea of cheap "OSP" is wrong headed
3. Anything Zubrin comes up with is wrong headed.

If 2, then I'm definitely with Zubrin.

If 1, then I'd probably have to agree with O'Keefe, though the I like
the idea of converting Shuttle tech to HLV.

If 3, then he should read "First Landing", which is I think is the
best stuff Zubrin has written.

Alex Terrell writes:

Could be:
1. The aim of going to Mars is wrong headed

1.a. The aim of going to Mars may be OK, but trying to do it with Zubrin's
narrow margins is wrong-headed. Ditto picking out a HLV before laying out the
groundwork.

For starters, it would be nice to know what the actual mass penalty is for
adding spinning pseudogravity to a habitation module. It's easy to say "just
spin it on a tether", but the actual attempts to do so haven't gone so well.

And it would also be nice to know what long exposure to 1/3 gravity does to the
human body.

etc. etc.

Will McLean

For starters, it would be nice to know what the actual mass penalty is for
adding spinning pseudogravity to a habitation module. It's easy to say "just
spin it on a tether", but the actual attempts to do so haven't gone so well.

I haven't know of any attempts to spin a habitation module on a tether, so how
could they have not gone well if they haven't happened?

Tom

In article ,
Alex Terrell wrote:
(Tom Merkle) wrote in message . com...
I grabbed this off the Mars Society Web Sight today. What got my
attention is that Sean O'Keefe said that it represented "wrong headed
thinking." Anybody know what he was referring to, the reuse of shuttle
or the idea of a 'simpler' capsule OSP?

Either way it seems to indicate that O'keefe is already discounting
the idea of a simpler OSP.

If anybody has the details of his conversation with Congress, please
post them.


Could be:
1. The aim of going to Mars is wrong headed
2. The idea of cheap "OSP" is wrong headed
3. Anything Zubrin comes up with is wrong headed.

If 2, then I'm definitely with Zubrin.

If 1, then I'd probably have to agree with O'Keefe, though the I like
the idea of converting Shuttle tech to HLV.

If 3, then he should read "First Landing", which is I think is the
best stuff Zubrin has written.

Is that the novel?

There's some evidence to my eyes that it was actually written
by Kevin J. Anderson, in as much it sucks thoat ******** and in as much
as the dedication is eerily similar to the ones used by William Shatner
to credit the ghost writers who acutally write the books Shatner takes
credit for.

--
It's amazing how the waterdrops form: a ball of water with an air bubble
inside it and inside of that one more bubble of water. It looks so beautiful
[...]. I realized something: the world is interesting for the man who can
be surprised. -Valentin Lebedev-

(TKalbfus) wrote:

Zoom! And it goes right over TKalbfus' head...

So your saying there's personal animosity between O'Keefe and Zubrin?

No, he's saying Zubrin's reputation and influence in many circles far
outstrips his actual capabilities.

D.
--
The STS-107 Columbia Loss FAQ can be found
at the following URLs:

Text-Only Version:
http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq.html

Enhanced HTML Version:
http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq_x.html

Corrections, comments, and additions should be
e-mailed to , as well as posted to
sci.space.history and sci.space.shuttle for
discussion.

James Nicoll wrote:

If 3, then he should read "First Landing", which is I think is the
best stuff Zubrin has written.

Is that the novel?

There's some evidence to my eyes that it was actually written
by Kevin J. Anderson, in as much it sucks thoat ********...


Well... I read an earlier draft of it (IIRC, it was called "Martians"),
when it was being pitched as a movie script. It was clearly written by
Zubrin, not a ghost writer. I have not read the novel. I can only hope
that he fixed some of the massive, screaming flaws I pointed out in the
script... the protestors *right* *outside* mission control, the
psychologically unbalanced female astronaut who was actually allowed to
bring along a Bowie knife, the female astronaut getting preggers and the
other astronauts actually being surprised by it *(and NASA having not
thought of this possibility beforehand), the Mars lander screaming
horizontally through Valles Marinaris, the ERV plopping down in New York
Harbor, and just a whole slew of really quite aweful cheap cliches. I
can only hope that these weren't in the book.
--
Scott Lowther, Engineer

"Any statement by Edward Wright that starts with 'You seem to think
that...' is wrong. Always. It's a law of Usenet, like Godwin's."
- Jorge R. Frank, 11 Nov 2002

Derek Lyons wrote:

(TKalbfus) wrote:

Zoom! And it goes right over TKalbfus' head...

So your saying there's personal animosity between O'Keefe and Zubrin?

No, he's saying Zubrin's reputation and influence in many circles far
outstrips his actual capabilities.

Exactamundo, with this addition: personality. I have no idea if O'Keefe
has met Zubrin. But if he has, you can be that O'Keefe probably cringes
whenever the name pops up. This is a Very Common Reaction. Ask around.

--
Scott Lowther, Engineer

"Any statement by Edward Wright that starts with 'You seem to think
that...' is wrong. Always. It's a law of Usenet, like Godwin's."
- Jorge R. Frank, 11 Nov 2002