Glenn speech

In article ,
(Gene DiGennaro) wrote:

Only now do we have a plan for expanded
exploration and its future is quite uncertain

For that matter, calling it a "plan" may well be over-stating it.
I've lived through a few government "plans" for human spaceflight,
ones a LOT firmer than HSI/"Constellation", and seen a good deal of
effort come to naught.

--
Herb Schaltegger, B.S., J.D.
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity."
~ Robert A. Heinlein
http://www.angryherb.net

Jim Oberg ) wrote:

: "Eric Chomko"
: Glenn is a Democrat and you're a Republican. End of story.

: You are a moron. End of story.

Stick to your speaking gigs as you have zero ability for real debate.
Your politics are cliche'. Oops, I used a French word, I must be some damn
French-loving socialist. LOL!

Eric

Rand Simberg ) wrote:
: On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:39:01 GMT, in a place far, far away, "Jim
: Oberg" made the phosphor on my monitor
: glow in such a way as to indicate that:

:
: "Eric Chomko"
: Glenn is a Democrat and you're a Republican. End of story.
:
: You are a moron.

: Yes.

Yes, Rand, you are...

: End of story.

: Would that it were true. Unfortunately, it's a continuing saga.

And that is the beauty of it. But somehow, I think that the concept of the
journey vs. the destination escapes you.

Eric

Rand Simberg ) wrote:
: On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 10:30:17 -0600, in a place far, far away, Herb
: Schaltegger made the phosphor on
: my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that:

: In article ,
: (Gene DiGennaro) wrote:
:
: Only now do we have a plan for expanded
: exploration and its future is quite uncertain
:
: For that matter, calling it a "plan" may well be over-stating it.
: I've lived through a few government "plans" for human spaceflight,
: ones a LOT firmer than HSI/"Constellation", and seen a good deal of
: effort come to naught.

: Yes, it's more of a goal than a plan. But at least we have one now.

Since President Bush stated his space initiative nearly a year ago, what
exactly has been done toward that goal?

I'd love to see it come to fruition but I am very skepitcal.

Eric

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 10:30:17 -0600, in a place far, far away, Herb
Schaltegger made the phosphor on
my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that:

In article ,
(Gene DiGennaro) wrote:

Only now do we have a plan for expanded
exploration and its future is quite uncertain

For that matter, calling it a "plan" may well be over-stating it.
I've lived through a few government "plans" for human spaceflight,
ones a LOT firmer than HSI/"Constellation", and seen a good deal of
effort come to naught.

Yes, it's more of a goal than a plan. But at least we have one now.

In article ,
Herb Schaltegger wrote:
Yes, it's more of a goal than a plan. But at least we have one now.

...Past administrations have always had "plans" but no one ever really
cared up beyond the level of the policy wonks.

With the brief exception of Bush Sr., there has been no particular
evidence of space planning in any administration in the recent past.
Oh, they've issued "space plans", but basically what those plans have
boiled down to is "keep doing what you're doing for a while -- someday
we might make some decisions, but not today".

Even the station decision (early Reagan) is questionable -- aside from the
fact that it was over twenty years ago -- because it was not *planning* in
the sense of upper management defining a goal and a path to get there. The
lack of clear purpose behind the station program has been noted repeatedly,
and has been a big source of its problems.

Even such basics as "resume manned exploration", "Moon before Mars", and
"phase out Shuttle by 2010 but not by building a new government launcher"
are considerably more guidance than previous administrations have given.

It has yet to be seen whether
Dubya really cares, either, or if this is mere political posturing.

Now that, I agree with.

Bush Sr.'s flash-in-the-pan plan fell down mostly because he wasn't
willing to expend political capital to pursue it. The singularly inept
handling of the situation by NASA didn't help, but wasn't in itself an
irretrievable disaster. It sank SEI only because Bush made no attempt to
correct the problem -- if he'd responded with a sharp repudiation of the
infamous 90-Day Study, and a demand that NASA produce a realistic plan
rather than a union of wishlists, there was still a chance of selling
something modest and long-term to Congress.

Bush Jr. hasn't *quite* ignored his plan, but he sure hasn't been actively
promoting it much, despite some excellent opportunities to do so. Even
given that spaceflight is not a big national priority nowadays and so we
can't expect too much, his level of commitment is open to question.

So far, he's acting like it was something he was reluctantly talked into,
something he has promised to support but has no real enthusiasm for. In
which case, given that he seems to really hate publicly admitting that he
made a mistake, he can be expected to intervene when absolutely necessary
to keep a minimal effort alive, but otherwise he'll ignore it. Notably,
he won't go out of his way to endorse it or expand it. Nor is he going to
correct any big mistakes NASA makes (like opting for a shuttle-derived
heavylift launcher), so long as they don't look likely to sink the whole
thing until after he's gone.
--
"Think outside the box -- the box isn't our friend." | Henry Spencer
-- George Herbert |

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 11:16:24 -0600, in a place far, far away, Herb
Schaltegger made the phosphor on
my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that:

In article ,
h (Rand Simberg) wrote:

Yes, it's more of a goal than a plan. But at least we have one now.

Oh, please. Stop with the one-liners.

Past administrations have always had "plans" but no one ever really
cared up beyond the level of the policy wonks.

Do you have trouble reading? There is no plan yet, scare quotes or
otherwise. But this is the first administration since Kennedy to
articulate an actual *goal* for American space policy, and start to
execute it.

It has yet to be seen
whether Dubya really cares, either, or if this is mere political
posturing.

Good lord, have you been paying no attention at all to what's going
on?

He threatened to *veto* the appropriations bill if it didn't have his
full funding request for NASA (he didn't veto a single bill in his
first term). He got it. NASA is the only domestic discretionary
agency that got a budget increase this year. And if you think that
the only way to show his support for space is by ignoring national
security, then you're nuts.

Better an accurate "one-liner" than three paragraphs of utter
bull****.

Rand Simberg ) writes:
On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 11:16:24 -0600, in a place far, far away, Herb
Schaltegger made the phosphor on
my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that:

In article ,
h (Rand Simberg) wrote:

Yes, it's more of a goal than a plan. But at least we have one now.

Oh, please. Stop with the one-liners.

Past administrations have always had "plans" but no one ever really
cared up beyond the level of the policy wonks.

Do you have trouble reading? There is no plan yet, scare quotes or
otherwise. But this is the first administration since Kennedy to
articulate an actual *goal* for American space policy, and start to
execute it.

LOL ! See Bush I's space initiative, announced at the Apollo 11
Plus 20 celebrations.

It would help if you, well, *knew* some actual space policy history.

It has yet to be seen
whether Dubya really cares, either, or if this is mere political
posturing.

Good lord, have you been paying no attention at all to what's going
on?

He threatened to *veto* the appropriations bill if it didn't have his
full funding request for NASA (he didn't veto a single bill in his
first term). He got it. NASA is the only domestic discretionary
agency that got a budget increase this year. And if you think that
the only way to show his support for space is by ignoring national
security, then you're nuts.

Better an accurate "one-liner" than three paragraphs of utter
bull****.

Better still, an accurate comment about prior un-realised
" initiatives "...

Andre


--
" I'm a man... But, I can change... If I have to... I guess. "
The Man Prayer, Red Green.

On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 00:52:08 GMT, h (Rand
Simberg) wrote:

You should read "New Moon Rising" if you haven't yet.

I've never heard that title - sounds interesting.

Author and publisher (and, if possible, IBSN) please...? :-)

Worse still, I can not possibly see how a new vehicle is going to be designed,
built, tested repeatedly until it's man-rated, put aboard an as yet unknown
heavy-lift booster, and sent repeatedly to the moon, on $15 billion. It can not
happen. I am amazed that people think it can. The dollar is worth less today
than in the 60's and it couldn't be done then.
If Bush truly wanted to push space as a goal, we'd have heard about it in the
State of the Union address, given immediatly after the announcement. Nobody
except anxious NASA employees and people like us are singing the praises of
expanding that aspect of America's destiny.
Sadly, we are mired in an expensive and untenable war which will not put
humankind anywhere closer to our greatest potential.
I want to hear politicians start actively talking about this "goal".