Analemma with the Erechtheion ... #4/11

Martin Frey wrote:

"wijsneus" wrote:



I think your work is awesome, but I have a few questions about these
pictures:

1. the shadow cast on the temples does not seem to match the position(s) of
the sun, it makes the photo look fake. How did you edit them? paste the
scenery into the picture? also, the sun seems too small on the pictures
2. you say the angle of the analemma is determined by the geographical
position, but you have two analemmas over Athens, with different angles! So
what else influences the angle?


Hi Martin,

2. The time of day alters the angle - Anthony's analemmas are (I
think) intended to be for every available hour.

Yes, this was the original objective when I started on this
project. I computed the latest sunrise for my location during a claendar
year which I found to be around 7:46 AM ... so that means I can
effectively start as early as 08:00 for my earliest analemma. Similarly,
my latest sunset is around 17:15 (by memory) which means that my latest
analemma is basically 17:00. To this end, I went after every hourly
analemma during this interval. The sole exception is the perfectly
vertical analemma which for my location is at 12:28:16. To this end, we
have eleven possible analemmas from sunrise to sunset and it is these
that I have been in pursuit since 2001.

1a) The shadow will always look wrong: the Sun can't be in the
foreground picture without wrecking it!

This is precisely it. For example, the shadows cast by the sun
when at the summer solstice (apex point of upper loop) would be
dramatically different from those during the winter solstice. When
shooting the foregrounds, I have done my best to avoid as many shadows
as possible while trying to get a rich blue sky by having the sun to my
left or right for a natural polarizing effect. This means multiple trips
to a potential site so as to study where north, south, east and west are
as well as what possible objects in the area can be problematic with
respect to shadows. At the same time I have to make sure that my
foreground is not taken at such an angle where the sun would never be at
any point during the year (for example, immediately due north).

1b) And if the Sun is in the picture - which of the 40 odd Suns should
be the one that casts the shadows?

I don't think there is a way round this - Anthony's solution is the
same as Dennis Ciccio used in the first analemma picture I ever saw
(back in the 80s) and it is certainly the most beautiful solution.

This is precisely the point in that there is no way around it.
Technically, one of the exposures in the analemma should also serve to
light the foreground photo as well but you will then burn the whole
frame and certainly the analemma painstakingly constructed. Dennis, for
example, had both analemma and foreground being true to each other with
respect to the location and placement of the camera but the foreground
from what I recall was shot at a different time,

The question must be asked - and Anthony may not forgive me for asking
it: are all the analemmas taken at the same place? Does he actually

The analemmas are taken from my home just northeast of Athens.
One of the objectives when I started out was to replicate the figure
that Dennis di Cicco had in his article (S&T, Mar/2000, pg 135+) where
he showed using a computer generated graph how the analemma would look
if taken during different times of the day. With a foreground taken on
the same frame as the analemma, I would not be able to replicate Dennis'
figure using actual analemmas. To this end, the analemmas are on a frame
on their own and the foregrounds are taken independently using a
different camera.

travel to all these lovely places every week? I wouldn't fancy lugging
my tripod and camera up to the Erechtheion on a regular basis with the
sun blazing down (or is that just me getting old?

As much as I would love to have some stationary means to have a
permanent mount at these sites, there is absolutely no way something
like this would be permitted or even considered. Just to give you an
idea, I spent over three hours yesterday waiting for a pigeon to leave
the scene of the foreground from yesterday's analemma. I asked one of
the guards if I can take a small stone to throw in the general direction
of the pigeon so as to get to leave - his reply was that he would have
the police there in seconds should I go even through the motion of
throwing something in the direction of these ruins.

I have a side hobby involving the photography of the ancient
ruins in Greece and these analemmas are a wonderful opportunity to
combine my two addictions (astrophotography + Ancient Greece). Before an
analemma is finalized, I will inevitably take between 250 and 350 images
so as to arrive at the right combination of lighting, perspective,
composition etc. One serious problem is the tourism traffic, for it
never seems to end or, at least, take a break. Add other minor
inconveniences (occasional sporadic clouds, jet contrails, birds,
scaffolding for some of these structures due to reconstructive work etc)
and the taking of the foreground images can be a challenge of their own
requiring many trips and trials lasting a few weeks.

Anthony.

Martin Frey wrote:

"wijsneus" wrote:



I think your work is awesome, but I have a few questions about these
pictures:

1. the shadow cast on the temples does not seem to match the position(s) of
the sun, it makes the photo look fake. How did you edit them? paste the
scenery into the picture? also, the sun seems too small on the pictures
2. you say the angle of the analemma is determined by the geographical
position, but you have two analemmas over Athens, with different angles! So
what else influences the angle?


Hi Martin,

2. The time of day alters the angle - Anthony's analemmas are (I
think) intended to be for every available hour.

Yes, this was the original objective when I started on this
project. I computed the latest sunrise for my location during a claendar
year which I found to be around 7:46 AM ... so that means I can
effectively start as early as 08:00 for my earliest analemma. Similarly,
my latest sunset is around 17:15 (by memory) which means that my latest
analemma is basically 17:00. To this end, I went after every hourly
analemma during this interval. The sole exception is the perfectly
vertical analemma which for my location is at 12:28:16. To this end, we
have eleven possible analemmas from sunrise to sunset and it is these
that I have been in pursuit since 2001.

1a) The shadow will always look wrong: the Sun can't be in the
foreground picture without wrecking it!

This is precisely it. For example, the shadows cast by the sun
when at the summer solstice (apex point of upper loop) would be
dramatically different from those during the winter solstice. When
shooting the foregrounds, I have done my best to avoid as many shadows
as possible while trying to get a rich blue sky by having the sun to my
left or right for a natural polarizing effect. This means multiple trips
to a potential site so as to study where north, south, east and west are
as well as what possible objects in the area can be problematic with
respect to shadows. At the same time I have to make sure that my
foreground is not taken at such an angle where the sun would never be at
any point during the year (for example, immediately due north).

1b) And if the Sun is in the picture - which of the 40 odd Suns should
be the one that casts the shadows?

I don't think there is a way round this - Anthony's solution is the
same as Dennis Ciccio used in the first analemma picture I ever saw
(back in the 80s) and it is certainly the most beautiful solution.

This is precisely the point in that there is no way around it.
Technically, one of the exposures in the analemma should also serve to
light the foreground photo as well but you will then burn the whole
frame and certainly the analemma painstakingly constructed. Dennis, for
example, had both analemma and foreground being true to each other with
respect to the location and placement of the camera but the foreground
from what I recall was shot at a different time,

The question must be asked - and Anthony may not forgive me for asking
it: are all the analemmas taken at the same place? Does he actually

The analemmas are taken from my home just northeast of Athens.
One of the objectives when I started out was to replicate the figure
that Dennis di Cicco had in his article (S&T, Mar/2000, pg 135+) where
he showed using a computer generated graph how the analemma would look
if taken during different times of the day. With a foreground taken on
the same frame as the analemma, I would not be able to replicate Dennis'
figure using actual analemmas. To this end, the analemmas are on a frame
on their own and the foregrounds are taken independently using a
different camera.

travel to all these lovely places every week? I wouldn't fancy lugging
my tripod and camera up to the Erechtheion on a regular basis with the
sun blazing down (or is that just me getting old?

As much as I would love to have some stationary means to have a
permanent mount at these sites, there is absolutely no way something
like this would be permitted or even considered. Just to give you an
idea, I spent over three hours yesterday waiting for a pigeon to leave
the scene of the foreground from yesterday's analemma. I asked one of
the guards if I can take a small stone to throw in the general direction
of the pigeon so as to get to leave - his reply was that he would have
the police there in seconds should I go even through the motion of
throwing something in the direction of these ruins.

I have a side hobby involving the photography of the ancient
ruins in Greece and these analemmas are a wonderful opportunity to
combine my two addictions (astrophotography + Ancient Greece). Before an
analemma is finalized, I will inevitably take between 250 and 350 images
so as to arrive at the right combination of lighting, perspective,
composition etc. One serious problem is the tourism traffic, for it
never seems to end or, at least, take a break. Add other minor
inconveniences (occasional sporadic clouds, jet contrails, birds,
scaffolding for some of these structures due to reconstructive work etc)
and the taking of the foreground images can be a challenge of their own
requiring many trips and trials lasting a few weeks.

Anthony.

Martin Frey wrote:

"wijsneus" wrote:



I think your work is awesome, but I have a few questions about these
pictures:

1. the shadow cast on the temples does not seem to match the position(s) of
the sun, it makes the photo look fake. How did you edit them? paste the
scenery into the picture? also, the sun seems too small on the pictures
2. you say the angle of the analemma is determined by the geographical
position, but you have two analemmas over Athens, with different angles! So
what else influences the angle?


Hi Martin,

2. The time of day alters the angle - Anthony's analemmas are (I
think) intended to be for every available hour.

Yes, this was the original objective when I started on this
project. I computed the latest sunrise for my location during a claendar
year which I found to be around 7:46 AM ... so that means I can
effectively start as early as 08:00 for my earliest analemma. Similarly,
my latest sunset is around 17:15 (by memory) which means that my latest
analemma is basically 17:00. To this end, I went after every hourly
analemma during this interval. The sole exception is the perfectly
vertical analemma which for my location is at 12:28:16. To this end, we
have eleven possible analemmas from sunrise to sunset and it is these
that I have been in pursuit since 2001.

1a) The shadow will always look wrong: the Sun can't be in the
foreground picture without wrecking it!

This is precisely it. For example, the shadows cast by the sun
when at the summer solstice (apex point of upper loop) would be
dramatically different from those during the winter solstice. When
shooting the foregrounds, I have done my best to avoid as many shadows
as possible while trying to get a rich blue sky by having the sun to my
left or right for a natural polarizing effect. This means multiple trips
to a potential site so as to study where north, south, east and west are
as well as what possible objects in the area can be problematic with
respect to shadows. At the same time I have to make sure that my
foreground is not taken at such an angle where the sun would never be at
any point during the year (for example, immediately due north).

1b) And if the Sun is in the picture - which of the 40 odd Suns should
be the one that casts the shadows?

I don't think there is a way round this - Anthony's solution is the
same as Dennis Ciccio used in the first analemma picture I ever saw
(back in the 80s) and it is certainly the most beautiful solution.

This is precisely the point in that there is no way around it.
Technically, one of the exposures in the analemma should also serve to
light the foreground photo as well but you will then burn the whole
frame and certainly the analemma painstakingly constructed. Dennis, for
example, had both analemma and foreground being true to each other with
respect to the location and placement of the camera but the foreground
from what I recall was shot at a different time,

The question must be asked - and Anthony may not forgive me for asking
it: are all the analemmas taken at the same place? Does he actually

The analemmas are taken from my home just northeast of Athens.
One of the objectives when I started out was to replicate the figure
that Dennis di Cicco had in his article (S&T, Mar/2000, pg 135+) where
he showed using a computer generated graph how the analemma would look
if taken during different times of the day. With a foreground taken on
the same frame as the analemma, I would not be able to replicate Dennis'
figure using actual analemmas. To this end, the analemmas are on a frame
on their own and the foregrounds are taken independently using a
different camera.

travel to all these lovely places every week? I wouldn't fancy lugging
my tripod and camera up to the Erechtheion on a regular basis with the
sun blazing down (or is that just me getting old?

As much as I would love to have some stationary means to have a
permanent mount at these sites, there is absolutely no way something
like this would be permitted or even considered. Just to give you an
idea, I spent over three hours yesterday waiting for a pigeon to leave
the scene of the foreground from yesterday's analemma. I asked one of
the guards if I can take a small stone to throw in the general direction
of the pigeon so as to get to leave - his reply was that he would have
the police there in seconds should I go even through the motion of
throwing something in the direction of these ruins.

I have a side hobby involving the photography of the ancient
ruins in Greece and these analemmas are a wonderful opportunity to
combine my two addictions (astrophotography + Ancient Greece). Before an
analemma is finalized, I will inevitably take between 250 and 350 images
so as to arrive at the right combination of lighting, perspective,
composition etc. One serious problem is the tourism traffic, for it
never seems to end or, at least, take a break. Add other minor
inconveniences (occasional sporadic clouds, jet contrails, birds,
scaffolding for some of these structures due to reconstructive work etc)
and the taking of the foreground images can be a challenge of their own
requiring many trips and trials lasting a few weeks.

Anthony.

Anthony Ayiomamitis wrote:

Martin Frey wrote:

"wijsneus" wrote:



I think your work is awesome, but I have a few questions about these
pictures:

1. the shadow cast on the temples does not seem to match the position(s) of
the sun, it makes the photo look fake. How did you edit them? paste the
scenery into the picture? also, the sun seems too small on the pictures
2. you say the angle of the analemma is determined by the geographical
position, but you have two analemmas over Athens, with different angles! So
what else influences the angle?


Hi Martin,

2. The time of day alters the angle - Anthony's analemmas are (I
think) intended to be for every available hour.

Yes, this was the original objective when I started on this
project. I computed the latest sunrise for my location during a
claendar year which I found to be around 7:46 AM ... so that means I
can effectively start as early as 08:00 for my earliest analemma.
Similarly, my latest sunset is around 17:15 (by memory) which means
that my latest analemma is basically

...... my EARLIEST sunset is around 17:15 ......

17:00. To this end, I went after every hourly analemma during this
interval. The sole exception is the perfectly vertical analemma which
for my location is at 12:28:16. To this end, we have eleven possible
analemmas from sunrise to sunset and it is these that I have been in
pursuit since 2001.

1a) The shadow will always look wrong: the Sun can't be in the
foreground picture without wrecking it!

This is precisely it. For example, the shadows cast by the sun
when at the summer solstice (apex point of upper loop) would be
dramatically different from those during the winter solstice. When
shooting the foregrounds, I have done my best to avoid as many shadows
as possible while trying to get a rich blue sky by having the sun to
my left or right for a natural polarizing effect. This means multiple
trips to a potential site so as to study where north, south, east and
west are as well as what possible objects in the area can be
problematic with respect to shadows. At the same time I have to make
sure that my foreground is not taken at such an angle where the sun
would never be at any point during the year (for example, immediately
due north).

1b) And if the Sun is in the picture - which of the 40 odd Suns should
be the one that casts the shadows?

I don't think there is a way round this - Anthony's solution is the
same as Dennis Ciccio used in the first analemma picture I ever saw
(back in the 80s) and it is certainly the most beautiful solution.

This is precisely the point in that there is no way around it.
Technically, one of the exposures in the analemma should also serve to
light the foreground photo as well but you will then burn the whole
frame and certainly the analemma painstakingly constructed. Dennis,
for example, had both analemma and foreground being true to each other
with respect to the location and placement of the camera but the
foreground from what I recall was shot at a different time,

The question must be asked - and Anthony may not forgive me for asking
it: are all the analemmas taken at the same place? Does he actually

The analemmas are taken from my home just northeast of Athens.
One of the objectives when I started out was to replicate the figure
that Dennis di Cicco had in his article (S&T, Mar/2000, pg 135+) where
he showed using a computer generated graph how the analemma would look
if taken during different times of the day. With a foreground taken on
the same frame as the analemma, I would not be able to replicate
Dennis' figure using actual analemmas. To this end, the analemmas are
on a frame on their own and the foregrounds are taken independently
using a different camera.

travel to all these lovely places every week? I wouldn't fancy lugging
my tripod and camera up to the Erechtheion on a regular basis with the
sun blazing down (or is that just me getting old?

As much as I would love to have some stationary means to have
a permanent mount at these sites, there is absolutely no way something
like this would be permitted or even considered. Just to give you an
idea, I spent over three hours yesterday waiting for a pigeon to leave
the scene of the foreground from yesterday's analemma. I asked one of
the guards if I can take a small stone to throw in the general
direction of the pigeon so as to get to leave - his reply was that he
would have the police there in seconds should I go even through the
motion of throwing something in the direction of these ruins.

I have a side hobby involving the photography of the ancient
ruins in Greece and these analemmas are a wonderful opportunity to
combine my two addictions (astrophotography + Ancient Greece). Before
an analemma is finalized, I will inevitably take between 250 and 350
images so as to arrive at the right combination of lighting,
perspective, composition etc. One serious problem is the tourism
traffic, for it never seems to end or, at least, take a break. Add
other minor inconveniences (occasional sporadic clouds, jet contrails,
birds, scaffolding for some of these structures due to reconstructive
work etc) and the taking of the foreground images can be a challenge
of their own requiring many trips and trials lasting a few weeks.

Anthony.

Anthony Ayiomamitis wrote:

Martin Frey wrote:

"wijsneus" wrote:



I think your work is awesome, but I have a few questions about these
pictures:

1. the shadow cast on the temples does not seem to match the position(s) of
the sun, it makes the photo look fake. How did you edit them? paste the
scenery into the picture? also, the sun seems too small on the pictures
2. you say the angle of the analemma is determined by the geographical
position, but you have two analemmas over Athens, with different angles! So
what else influences the angle?


Hi Martin,

2. The time of day alters the angle - Anthony's analemmas are (I
think) intended to be for every available hour.

Yes, this was the original objective when I started on this
project. I computed the latest sunrise for my location during a
claendar year which I found to be around 7:46 AM ... so that means I
can effectively start as early as 08:00 for my earliest analemma.
Similarly, my latest sunset is around 17:15 (by memory) which means
that my latest analemma is basically

...... my EARLIEST sunset is around 17:15 ......

17:00. To this end, I went after every hourly analemma during this
interval. The sole exception is the perfectly vertical analemma which
for my location is at 12:28:16. To this end, we have eleven possible
analemmas from sunrise to sunset and it is these that I have been in
pursuit since 2001.

1a) The shadow will always look wrong: the Sun can't be in the
foreground picture without wrecking it!

This is precisely it. For example, the shadows cast by the sun
when at the summer solstice (apex point of upper loop) would be
dramatically different from those during the winter solstice. When
shooting the foregrounds, I have done my best to avoid as many shadows
as possible while trying to get a rich blue sky by having the sun to
my left or right for a natural polarizing effect. This means multiple
trips to a potential site so as to study where north, south, east and
west are as well as what possible objects in the area can be
problematic with respect to shadows. At the same time I have to make
sure that my foreground is not taken at such an angle where the sun
would never be at any point during the year (for example, immediately
due north).

1b) And if the Sun is in the picture - which of the 40 odd Suns should
be the one that casts the shadows?

I don't think there is a way round this - Anthony's solution is the
same as Dennis Ciccio used in the first analemma picture I ever saw
(back in the 80s) and it is certainly the most beautiful solution.

This is precisely the point in that there is no way around it.
Technically, one of the exposures in the analemma should also serve to
light the foreground photo as well but you will then burn the whole
frame and certainly the analemma painstakingly constructed. Dennis,
for example, had both analemma and foreground being true to each other
with respect to the location and placement of the camera but the
foreground from what I recall was shot at a different time,

The question must be asked - and Anthony may not forgive me for asking
it: are all the analemmas taken at the same place? Does he actually

The analemmas are taken from my home just northeast of Athens.
One of the objectives when I started out was to replicate the figure
that Dennis di Cicco had in his article (S&T, Mar/2000, pg 135+) where
he showed using a computer generated graph how the analemma would look
if taken during different times of the day. With a foreground taken on
the same frame as the analemma, I would not be able to replicate
Dennis' figure using actual analemmas. To this end, the analemmas are
on a frame on their own and the foregrounds are taken independently
using a different camera.

travel to all these lovely places every week? I wouldn't fancy lugging
my tripod and camera up to the Erechtheion on a regular basis with the
sun blazing down (or is that just me getting old?

As much as I would love to have some stationary means to have
a permanent mount at these sites, there is absolutely no way something
like this would be permitted or even considered. Just to give you an
idea, I spent over three hours yesterday waiting for a pigeon to leave
the scene of the foreground from yesterday's analemma. I asked one of
the guards if I can take a small stone to throw in the general
direction of the pigeon so as to get to leave - his reply was that he
would have the police there in seconds should I go even through the
motion of throwing something in the direction of these ruins.

I have a side hobby involving the photography of the ancient
ruins in Greece and these analemmas are a wonderful opportunity to
combine my two addictions (astrophotography + Ancient Greece). Before
an analemma is finalized, I will inevitably take between 250 and 350
images so as to arrive at the right combination of lighting,
perspective, composition etc. One serious problem is the tourism
traffic, for it never seems to end or, at least, take a break. Add
other minor inconveniences (occasional sporadic clouds, jet contrails,
birds, scaffolding for some of these structures due to reconstructive
work etc) and the taking of the foreground images can be a challenge
of their own requiring many trips and trials lasting a few weeks.

Anthony.

Anthony Ayiomamitis wrote:

Martin Frey wrote:

"wijsneus" wrote:



I think your work is awesome, but I have a few questions about these
pictures:

1. the shadow cast on the temples does not seem to match the position(s) of
the sun, it makes the photo look fake. How did you edit them? paste the
scenery into the picture? also, the sun seems too small on the pictures
2. you say the angle of the analemma is determined by the geographical
position, but you have two analemmas over Athens, with different angles! So
what else influences the angle?


Hi Martin,

2. The time of day alters the angle - Anthony's analemmas are (I
think) intended to be for every available hour.

Yes, this was the original objective when I started on this
project. I computed the latest sunrise for my location during a
claendar year which I found to be around 7:46 AM ... so that means I
can effectively start as early as 08:00 for my earliest analemma.
Similarly, my latest sunset is around 17:15 (by memory) which means
that my latest analemma is basically

...... my EARLIEST sunset is around 17:15 ......

17:00. To this end, I went after every hourly analemma during this
interval. The sole exception is the perfectly vertical analemma which
for my location is at 12:28:16. To this end, we have eleven possible
analemmas from sunrise to sunset and it is these that I have been in
pursuit since 2001.

1a) The shadow will always look wrong: the Sun can't be in the
foreground picture without wrecking it!

This is precisely it. For example, the shadows cast by the sun
when at the summer solstice (apex point of upper loop) would be
dramatically different from those during the winter solstice. When
shooting the foregrounds, I have done my best to avoid as many shadows
as possible while trying to get a rich blue sky by having the sun to
my left or right for a natural polarizing effect. This means multiple
trips to a potential site so as to study where north, south, east and
west are as well as what possible objects in the area can be
problematic with respect to shadows. At the same time I have to make
sure that my foreground is not taken at such an angle where the sun
would never be at any point during the year (for example, immediately
due north).

1b) And if the Sun is in the picture - which of the 40 odd Suns should
be the one that casts the shadows?

I don't think there is a way round this - Anthony's solution is the
same as Dennis Ciccio used in the first analemma picture I ever saw
(back in the 80s) and it is certainly the most beautiful solution.

This is precisely the point in that there is no way around it.
Technically, one of the exposures in the analemma should also serve to
light the foreground photo as well but you will then burn the whole
frame and certainly the analemma painstakingly constructed. Dennis,
for example, had both analemma and foreground being true to each other
with respect to the location and placement of the camera but the
foreground from what I recall was shot at a different time,

The question must be asked - and Anthony may not forgive me for asking
it: are all the analemmas taken at the same place? Does he actually

The analemmas are taken from my home just northeast of Athens.
One of the objectives when I started out was to replicate the figure
that Dennis di Cicco had in his article (S&T, Mar/2000, pg 135+) where
he showed using a computer generated graph how the analemma would look
if taken during different times of the day. With a foreground taken on
the same frame as the analemma, I would not be able to replicate
Dennis' figure using actual analemmas. To this end, the analemmas are
on a frame on their own and the foregrounds are taken independently
using a different camera.

travel to all these lovely places every week? I wouldn't fancy lugging
my tripod and camera up to the Erechtheion on a regular basis with the
sun blazing down (or is that just me getting old?

As much as I would love to have some stationary means to have
a permanent mount at these sites, there is absolutely no way something
like this would be permitted or even considered. Just to give you an
idea, I spent over three hours yesterday waiting for a pigeon to leave
the scene of the foreground from yesterday's analemma. I asked one of
the guards if I can take a small stone to throw in the general
direction of the pigeon so as to get to leave - his reply was that he
would have the police there in seconds should I go even through the
motion of throwing something in the direction of these ruins.

I have a side hobby involving the photography of the ancient
ruins in Greece and these analemmas are a wonderful opportunity to
combine my two addictions (astrophotography + Ancient Greece). Before
an analemma is finalized, I will inevitably take between 250 and 350
images so as to arrive at the right combination of lighting,
perspective, composition etc. One serious problem is the tourism
traffic, for it never seems to end or, at least, take a break. Add
other minor inconveniences (occasional sporadic clouds, jet contrails,
birds, scaffolding for some of these structures due to reconstructive
work etc) and the taking of the foreground images can be a challenge
of their own requiring many trips and trials lasting a few weeks.

Anthony.

Anthony Ayiomamitis wrote:

Martin Frey wrote:

"wijsneus" wrote:



I think your work is awesome, but I have a few questions about these
pictures:

1. the shadow cast on the temples does not seem to match the position(s) of
the sun, it makes the photo look fake. How did you edit them? paste the
scenery into the picture? also, the sun seems too small on the pictures
2. you say the angle of the analemma is determined by the geographical
position, but you have two analemmas over Athens, with different angles! So
what else influences the angle?


Hi Martin,

2. The time of day alters the angle - Anthony's analemmas are (I
think) intended to be for every available hour.

Yes, this was the original objective when I started on this
project. I computed the latest sunrise for my location during a
claendar year which I found to be around 7:46 AM ... so that means I
can effectively start as early as 08:00 for my earliest analemma.
Similarly, my latest sunset is around 17:15 (by memory) which means
that my latest analemma is basically

...... my EARLIEST sunset is around 17:15 ......

17:00. To this end, I went after every hourly analemma during this
interval. The sole exception is the perfectly vertical analemma which
for my location is at 12:28:16. To this end, we have eleven possible
analemmas from sunrise to sunset and it is these that I have been in
pursuit since 2001.

1a) The shadow will always look wrong: the Sun can't be in the
foreground picture without wrecking it!

This is precisely it. For example, the shadows cast by the sun
when at the summer solstice (apex point of upper loop) would be
dramatically different from those during the winter solstice. When
shooting the foregrounds, I have done my best to avoid as many shadows
as possible while trying to get a rich blue sky by having the sun to
my left or right for a natural polarizing effect. This means multiple
trips to a potential site so as to study where north, south, east and
west are as well as what possible objects in the area can be
problematic with respect to shadows. At the same time I have to make
sure that my foreground is not taken at such an angle where the sun
would never be at any point during the year (for example, immediately
due north).

1b) And if the Sun is in the picture - which of the 40 odd Suns should
be the one that casts the shadows?

I don't think there is a way round this - Anthony's solution is the
same as Dennis Ciccio used in the first analemma picture I ever saw
(back in the 80s) and it is certainly the most beautiful solution.

This is precisely the point in that there is no way around it.
Technically, one of the exposures in the analemma should also serve to
light the foreground photo as well but you will then burn the whole
frame and certainly the analemma painstakingly constructed. Dennis,
for example, had both analemma and foreground being true to each other
with respect to the location and placement of the camera but the
foreground from what I recall was shot at a different time,

The question must be asked - and Anthony may not forgive me for asking
it: are all the analemmas taken at the same place? Does he actually

The analemmas are taken from my home just northeast of Athens.
One of the objectives when I started out was to replicate the figure
that Dennis di Cicco had in his article (S&T, Mar/2000, pg 135+) where
he showed using a computer generated graph how the analemma would look
if taken during different times of the day. With a foreground taken on
the same frame as the analemma, I would not be able to replicate
Dennis' figure using actual analemmas. To this end, the analemmas are
on a frame on their own and the foregrounds are taken independently
using a different camera.

travel to all these lovely places every week? I wouldn't fancy lugging
my tripod and camera up to the Erechtheion on a regular basis with the
sun blazing down (or is that just me getting old?

As much as I would love to have some stationary means to have
a permanent mount at these sites, there is absolutely no way something
like this would be permitted or even considered. Just to give you an
idea, I spent over three hours yesterday waiting for a pigeon to leave
the scene of the foreground from yesterday's analemma. I asked one of
the guards if I can take a small stone to throw in the general
direction of the pigeon so as to get to leave - his reply was that he
would have the police there in seconds should I go even through the
motion of throwing something in the direction of these ruins.

I have a side hobby involving the photography of the ancient
ruins in Greece and these analemmas are a wonderful opportunity to
combine my two addictions (astrophotography + Ancient Greece). Before
an analemma is finalized, I will inevitably take between 250 and 350
images so as to arrive at the right combination of lighting,
perspective, composition etc. One serious problem is the tourism
traffic, for it never seems to end or, at least, take a break. Add
other minor inconveniences (occasional sporadic clouds, jet contrails,
birds, scaffolding for some of these structures due to reconstructive
work etc) and the taking of the foreground images can be a challenge
of their own requiring many trips and trials lasting a few weeks.

Anthony.

my tripod and camera up to the Erechtheion on a regular basis with the
sun blazing down (or is that just me getting old?

Do you really want us to comment on you getting old Martin?

I'd love to have the time and patience to take an analemma pic in Cumbria,
but I'm sure the weather would be against me if nothing else.

Graeme

my tripod and camera up to the Erechtheion on a regular basis with the
sun blazing down (or is that just me getting old?

Do you really want us to comment on you getting old Martin?

I'd love to have the time and patience to take an analemma pic in Cumbria,
but I'm sure the weather would be against me if nothing else.

Graeme

my tripod and camera up to the Erechtheion on a regular basis with the
sun blazing down (or is that just me getting old?

Do you really want us to comment on you getting old Martin?

I'd love to have the time and patience to take an analemma pic in Cumbria,
but I'm sure the weather would be against me if nothing else.

Graeme